When I park my car at work for 9-12 hours, the remaining miles don't go down the way they used to. Sometimes they even go up by 1. Sure, that's a rounding error but it sure seems like the vampire load is close to zero.
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Vampire Drain is (almost) dead
- Thread starter WhatTimeIsIt
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When I park my car at work for 9-12 hours, the remaining miles don't go down the way they used to. Sometimes they even go up by 1. Sure, that's a rounding error but it sure seems like the vampire load is close to zero.
Your car is behaving differently from mine. My car completed charging at 12:40 AM this morning, and had 148 rates miles of range. I pulled it out of garage around 9:30 this morning, to do some work in my garage, and it was at 144. When I put it back, it was down to 141. This was without actually driving it anywhere. Of course, I did wake it up twice to move it, but it did appear to be sleeping both times.
Zapped
Model S - PURE EV
It's amazing what can be done with software.
I'm not saying this is the case but is it possible that the Leaf or other EV mfgs are not reporting / logging their vampire drain ?
Can one really know what software algorithm is used to adjust / calculate / report what really going on ?
(PS: I've written accounting software :wink
Substantial Vampire Drain in Cold Weather
Hello, I've noticed a substantial vampire drain in the cold weather.
I leave for work in the morning with 172 rated range miles. I drive 12 miles to work and park outside all day.
The car sits outdoors unplugged all day, and then at the end of a work day I drive home another 12 miles.
When I get home I have about 110 miles of rated range!
And all the way home the regen is disabled, probably because the battery is very cold.
Does this seem normal? Do other owners have similar experiences?
I'm driving 25 miles but losing 40 more in 7-8 hours!
Hello, I've noticed a substantial vampire drain in the cold weather.
I leave for work in the morning with 172 rated range miles. I drive 12 miles to work and park outside all day.
The car sits outdoors unplugged all day, and then at the end of a work day I drive home another 12 miles.
When I get home I have about 110 miles of rated range!
And all the way home the regen is disabled, probably because the battery is very cold.
Does this seem normal? Do other owners have similar experiences?
I'm driving 25 miles but losing 40 more in 7-8 hours!
Incredulocious
LEAF → RAV4EV → Model 3 → Model Y
Wow, Canuck. You are drawing some very wrong conclusions.
It's a mistake to think that people who currently drive a battery electric that gets less than 200 miles range are not in the market for a vehicle that gets that and more. I know I'm certainly in the market for that (didn't I just describe what I wanted above?!) but *nobody*, including Tesla, is making that vehicle yet.
It's a mistake to think that the Model S is the end-all-be-all for everyone. There are plenty of people who have stated their own wishes for something different from the Model S on this very forum. Usually it's a comment about wanting something less big and heavy (as I do), some just wanting cheaper, others wanting other things like more headroom (me too!). And you'll find many of us had reservations and cancelled – you can find these opinions expressed in this forum, there's even a thread talking about reasons for cancellations.
It's a mistake to go so far as to proclaim that "the fact is you have no intention of buying one since you are satisfied with a LEAF/RAV4". Driving electric is awesome – even if your range is only 120-150 miles (as in a RAV4) or 70-80 miles (as in a LEAF) but I'm not going to buy something just because it has the greatest range. I traded up to the RAV4 from the LEAF to get more range (even though a sporty hatchback would be better) but I like the RAV4, it's not too big even if it isn't as efficient as the LEAF. But now I'm free to access all of the Bay Area from Santa Cruz without concern for charge. But I still want more. I wish I could have 300+ miles range now and get rid of my ICE RAV4 but the Model S/X it's not a good enough fit for me. So yeah, I'll be enjoying the heck out of my electric RAV4 in the meantime and relying on my ICE RAV4 for road trips. Yeah, it's silly to have two but driving pure electric is awesome and I'm happy to leave the ICE just sitting there for months at a time.
As for learning from currently non-Tesla owners... who better to learn from than those that you're not yet satisfying?! There's no way I believe Elon doesn't know this. For that matter, he's said what he really cares about is electrifying our personal transportation regardless of produces those vehicles – which I applaud, despite being a heavy shareholder.
And yes, I certainly don't believe I'm unique in getting occasional callbacks ever since I cancelled long ago... but what do you think those conversations are about? What do you think they want to know?? And what's more, they understand! Several of these Tesla employees (including my ride-along for the factory event) expressed that they too are waiting for a smaller vehicle along the lines of a BMW 3-series. (For me, I think of my Audi A3 – no experience with BMW.) Lots of folks prefer smaller cars, including Tesla employees! I mean, imagine if the Model S were somehow not the kind of vehicle *you* wanted, despite its performance characteristics and superior range... can you relate to that? Buying something else until what you wanted came along?
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Well, the deal is that LEAF owners have had a couple of years to see that it doesn't lose any charge even when sitting for days and weeks. And others have monitored what is drawn from the wall long after the charge is complete. Yeah, definitely no vampire draw. Not even in the RAV4 which uses the same Tesla battery pack, inverter, motor, etc.It's amazing what can be done with software.
I'm not saying this is the case but is it possible that the Leaf or other EV mfgs are not reporting / logging their vampire drain ?
Can one really know what software algorithm is used to adjust / calculate / report what really going on ?
(PS: I've written accounting software :wink
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Canuck
Well-Known Member
Hey Incredulocious
,I never said that the Model S is the "end-all-be-all for everyone." Rather, I am only repeating what Elon Musk has said -- which is the opposite of your statement. He has repeatedly said that the Model S will not appeal to everyone and he is more than happy when other electric vehicles appeal to other sectors of the market (likely because of the superiority of his products). So far, there is only the Roadster and Model S, with the Model X (which I also assume does not appeal to you) in the near future. So it's clear that at this time you are not his target market. That should be plain and obvious but I guess you like to live up to your name. In the future, Telsa will likely make a vehicle that will suit you. It may be the Model E but that is at least a few years away. I don't think the Tesla employees are taking notes of your recommendations for future vehicles but perhaps I am wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. It just seems to me the Elon Musk is very calculated and so far his plans do not include a model with the features you want. He talks about the Model S as being a fast, large (cargo wise), sexy vehicle that competes with high end sedans. He talks about the Model X as being, well, in his words:
“The Model X’s price will be very similar to the Model S. It might be slightly higher, but… I can’t imagine that it will be… It’s probably going to be a slightly higher starting price because the Model X will only be offered as all-wheel drive. It will be dual motor, all-wheel drive.”
So again, you are not his target buyer. You may be in the future but then it will be a completely different car than the Model S or X which is why I made the comment about you having no intention to buy the Model S. That's all I'm saying. We can agree to disagree and let this thread go back to the Vampire Drain issue. We have sucked enough blood out of it!
And you'd turn them off when you weren't using them because of the enormous amount of electricity they'd use.
Kalud
Active Member
What you describe is not vampire drain but more usage while driving to heat the cabin and battery. Rated range is using conservative temperature and EPA or other driving cycle as reference.
True, but having have ten 100 watt light bulbs turned on for 1 hour a day is the same as 24 hours of Tesla vampire loss. Most people did not call light bulb usage "enormous" 20 years ago.
I totally agree it should still come down significantly. Just not that it is "enormous".
My vampire drain is down to 0,6 kWh per 24h. My car was parked at the airport for 4,5 days and lost 14 km (9 miles) of range, so 3 km (2 miles) per day. The car uses 0,6 kWh to drive that distance.
At least a light bulb gives me light. Not clear what this vampire drain is giving me. If it's doing nothing useful at all, I think it is an enormous amount of power.
It's not doing nothing, there are still system running that are needed by the car. Ideally, they would run less frequently to lower the energy usage.
I guess we have very different definition of enormous. 42w is clearly more than ideal, but
it's I just nowhere near what I consider enormous.
There are many devices in most people house using far more energy in standby everyday things like DVRs, cable boxes, TVs, video game consoles, computers, etc., and none if those are as fun to drive as my Model S.
I'm somewhat skeptical of this. But if it's true, I expect Tesla to justify every idle watt in great technical detail.
And it quite a shame that most people don't consider this to be enormous waste. No device in my house should be using more than about a quarter watt in standby mode, and that they do is because people don't care, and therefore the companies that make these devices don't prioritize this.
I'm willing to grant a little more idle energy to my car, if Tesla can justify it to me. But otherwise I will consider it an enormous waste, just like my DVR.
I think you're overstating a bit. Every product and service offering involves weighing priorities. Some would argue "everybody should be using the most efficient ____ on the market" but that completely ignores that the upfront cost is prohibitive for many.
I doubt a Tesla is going to go I to any great detail about internal system of their cars. I've never seen and company "justify" every watt of stand by power usage.
For the record, I do take vampire losses seriously, and I've gone through my house and eliminated most of them. This has included replace all bulbs with LED lighting, cutting power to my TiVo for 3/4 of the day, turning off NAS drive except when needed needed, replacing my laser printer with one that has deep sleep, killing all power to all my video game console unless they are being used, switching to a Mac mini for my main computer, and many, many more things around the house.
Tesla has significantly reduced the losses for the Model S so far and I expect they will continue to reduce them further. You can be skeptical all you want, in the mean time I'm going to continue to enjoy driving the best car ever made.
Adm
Active Member
I don't have a horse in this race as I don't own a Model S, but a Renault Zoe with a 22 kWh battery. I've been following this thread regularly and I have had mixed feelings about the vampire load. This morning it came to me to compare the vampire load of the Model S with other electric devices to see how it holds up.
When I see a desk top computer uses 21W while in sleep mode, 42W for the Model S is nothing short of amazing to me. We are talking about an electric car here, which is as big as an electric device as I own privately.
http://standby.lbl.gov/summary-table.html
When I see a desk top computer uses 21W while in sleep mode, 42W for the Model S is nothing short of amazing to me. We are talking about an electric car here, which is as big as an electric device as I own privately.
http://standby.lbl.gov/summary-table.html
