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Unhappy with moderation and personal attacks?
- Thread starter MsElectric
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For good reason. If you disagree with something, explain why, rather than just cursing.
My views are what they are. Yes, I understand some of them may feel disrespectful if there is a major disagreement that ultimately involves personal behaviours - compounded by the fact that text is such a harsh medium. The feeling is mutual in other instances. Many times that may be a misunderstanding, as Ocelot points out.
It is also true I find certain cultural issues (or alternatively dominant individual issues) on TMC a concern. This is not a misunderstanding, of course, although some details may be (like my use of the "don't quote" example). I am not alone either as MsElectric's post and various reputation points and PMs over the year point out. I get it that not all share these views, they are my opinions which I am discussing. These concerns of mine may feel disrespectful by some others, I get that, but disrespect is not the intent.
Even when I spell out things like the concern with "short on Tesla" questions, my hope is that those involved might simply quietly reconsider their actions in the future, not try to find any guilty parties or even make anyone in particular feel guilty. Just say, hey, maybe this could be different - just like others quite as validly offer such views to me as well. Or, alternatively, perhaps they could offer some answer in debate that I hadn't thought of and add to my information in a way that would change my mind instead.
I assure you almost never is any disrespect is meant by myself, nor am I looking to make things personal. My sincere belief, which I have stated out loud, is that most of us here who are capable of civil discourse are very good, decent people. It is mostly issues that pile up only. Perhaps a token one or two times some talk has heated up to the point that not so nice things were motivating what was said, I'm sure that goes for all sides, but overall I am genuinely hoping even major disagreements can happen - and try to do that myself - more along the lines of friendly banter and well-intentioned debate.
I may be wrong, but I have gotten the sense that out of all the people I've disagreed and debated with heatedly, maybe just maybe NigelM and myself are getting to that better level. We disagree greatly on many things (not least of all personal posting style), but at least for me it has evolved into a fairly friendly place. And that's great. Disagreement is fine, in disagreement brews interesting talks, but I'd rather not have it happen in any kind of anger. It is possible I'm reading NigelM too optimistically, text is a hard medium, but I live in hope.
So, FWIW, from my end thank you to NigelM for some of his recents exchanges.With some others I can sense hostility even and that, of course, I find unfortunate. Once I was offered a beer on my head on TMC should we ever meet, when I pondered a public TMC meeting as a solution to understand each other better, instead of text.
It is, of course, hard to move away from that when things escalate so. Anyway when I comment on TMC and my opinions on room for improvement, my intent is not to put anyone down.
Intent is one thing; how you come across is another.
If you want to sound polite, don't ask someone if they are shorting Tesla. Don't refer to something they said in a term that could be considered derogatory, because it reflects on the individual. Above all be polite.
If you want to sound polite, don't ask someone if they are shorting Tesla. Don't refer to something they said in a term that could be considered derogatory, because it reflects on the individual. Above all be polite.
BoerumHill
not great not terrible
One more thought on this:
I don't think it is necessary at all, much of the time, that interactions change the opinion of either side, although it is great if they sometimes do (be it either way). I get it that it often doesn't and that's fine. But if we could more often at least hear the other party, and hear them right. Understand that through text and online we may sometimes not hear them right at first and leave genuine room for clarifications. IMO that would be a great start.
And then let them know and understand they've been heard right. Over time, I think that does improve mutual understanding and respect and open avenues for meaningful dialogue.
One tool here is, I think, reminding yourself not to - ever - read the other guy like the Devil reads the bible. Content does often change meaning quite a bit when you assume their meaning is the best possible one, not the worst imaginable.
While not always does the other guy mean the best, at least this way you won't assume the worst when they do - which is probably more unfortunate than if it happens the other way around.
I don't think it is necessary at all, much of the time, that interactions change the opinion of either side, although it is great if they sometimes do (be it either way). I get it that it often doesn't and that's fine. But if we could more often at least hear the other party, and hear them right. Understand that through text and online we may sometimes not hear them right at first and leave genuine room for clarifications. IMO that would be a great start.
And then let them know and understand they've been heard right. Over time, I think that does improve mutual understanding and respect and open avenues for meaningful dialogue.
One tool here is, I think, reminding yourself not to - ever - read the other guy like the Devil reads the bible. Content does often change meaning quite a bit when you assume their meaning is the best possible one, not the worst imaginable.
While not always does the other guy mean the best, at least this way you won't assume the worst when they do - which is probably more unfortunate than if it happens the other way around.
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WK057 Will be missed, please can we reconsider.
At the risk of also getting banned, I feel strongly enough about this to post a plea to the mods/admins.
His posts and documentation of Tesla packs, was completely invaluable. Shining a light of rational thought and real world technical insight into what make our cars tick. (Even at times the reading was uncomfortable from a shareholder POV)
I understand that some posts did decline into general snippiness, but given the arguments being made in the face of logical facts he has presented, I think he's had remarkable patience.
I've put up a poll if you want to show some support.
At the risk of also getting banned, I feel strongly enough about this to post a plea to the mods/admins.
His posts and documentation of Tesla packs, was completely invaluable. Shining a light of rational thought and real world technical insight into what make our cars tick. (Even at times the reading was uncomfortable from a shareholder POV)
I understand that some posts did decline into general snippiness, but given the arguments being made in the face of logical facts he has presented, I think he's had remarkable patience.
I've put up a poll if you want to show some support.
Hello all my favorite people on TMC Land So the week or so I was away has been a huge revelation. I just realized how much more work I can get done and how much more productive I can be when I limit my time here! I came back to find the subject of the thread has now been moderated.
The original subject was "Bullying, harassment, arbitrary moderation & why some regular contributors leave" and I felt that was an accurate description of the situation.
The point of the thread was not that I was just unhappy with moderation, as the altered thread title suggests, but the fact that I was unhappy with being personally attacked and subject to arbitrary moderation on top of that which made the situation worse.
May suggest the alternate thread title "Unhappy with moderation and personal attacks?" I suppose that is less click-baity while still conveying what I was trying to communicate. At the least it would be nice if the new name bestowed on this thread by a moderator can be properly capitalized...
In any case thank you for allowing this thread so I can share some feedback with you all. Whatever you all do with this feedback is obviously up to you but I appreciate all the people I know here (both online and in real life) who know me that contacted me to offer their support. This is truly a great community of people and I just wish it was a fairer place with regards to moderation.
So the week or so I was away has been a huge revelation. I just realized how much more work I can get done and how much more productive I can be when I limit my time here! I came back to find the subject of the thread has now been moderated.The original subject was "Bullying, harassment, arbitrary moderation & why some regular contributors leave" and I felt that was an accurate description of the situation.
The point of the thread was not that I was just unhappy with moderation, as the altered thread title suggests, but the fact that I was unhappy with being personally attacked and subject to arbitrary moderation on top of that which made the situation worse.
May suggest the alternate thread title "Unhappy with moderation and personal attacks?" I suppose that is less click-baity while still conveying what I was trying to communicate. At the least it would be nice if the new name bestowed on this thread by a moderator can be properly capitalized...
In any case thank you for allowing this thread so I can share some feedback with you all. Whatever you all do with this feedback is obviously up to you but I appreciate all the people I know here (both online and in real life) who know me that contacted me to offer their support. This is truly a great community of people and I just wish it was a fairer place with regards to moderation.
Thank you for your patience and a fair message, MsElectric. I share your sentiment and am also glad to hear I understood your message correctly, because I didn't think it was just about moderation, but the posting culture combined with some moderation decisions and style.
I think that means we both as a community as well as the moderators can help in improving the situation MsElectric described.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
He did not say goodbye, and it was not just drama.
He had said he was going to be participating a lot less than he had been, while still taking an active role in the few project threads he was deeply involved in.
And one of the factors causing him to back off a bit was the off-line harassment he had received, presumably from a member or lurker here, who had tracked down his phone number and started calling him and sending him repeated text messages because they disagreed with some of the positions he was taking on topics here.
Before knowing this poll existed, I had posted in the thread that mentioned he was banned, also calling for his reinstatement. This is what I wrote there:
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
I'm sure it's a temporary ban, and he shouldn't be shown greater consideration than anyone else.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Tesla blog post: AWD Motor Power and Torque Specifications
wk057 got banned and several of the forum members don't understand why (myself included).
I'm not in the mood to write out more about it right now. I may come back later to do so.
Suffice it to say for now, that I am unhappy with that act of moderation.
wk057 got banned and several of the forum members don't understand why (myself included).
I'm not in the mood to write out more about it right now. I may come back later to do so.
Suffice it to say for now, that I am unhappy with that act of moderation.
You mean like the members who were more rude and more snippy yet didn't get banned?
patrick42h
Member
It was not drama. He was getting harassing texts and emails from people who were probably here on TMC.
I didn't know that, I'm pretty shocked.
Whoever it was should be ashamed of themselves!
If I was him even if the ban was revoked I'd not want to come back. So this thread is probably futile.
If you are still in touch with him Andy please pass on my thanks and best wishes.
Dark days for TMC
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
I don't think he changed his own status.
I also think it's a great loss to this forum to not have his content.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
No idea, I don't know the reason moderation chose to ban him. My assumption is that he was being treated as anyone else would. If that's not the case, then it's a different discussion.
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