Transport Evolved

[JRP3]

It's two bad cars in one :biggrin: Call me crazy, (some have), but a single car with two systems really sounds like a hybrid to me... Part of "EV-ness" is mechanical simplicity, which a hybrid lacks. Now people will try to categorize this as another poorly performing "EV" when it's a poorly performing hybrid. Actual EV's already take enough flack, do they need to be burdened with the short comings of hybrids as well? Why not call the Volt and Karma ICE's since both can go farther on gas than electricity? It makes as much sense as calling them EV's.

 

[mpt]

Transport Evolved 66 - Silly Salinas

Join Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield from Green Car Reports and Michael Thwaite from TeslaMotorsClub with guest Chelsea Sexton as they discuss the week’s news in the world of electric vehicles, including CA charging bill AB475, VW’s single-seat EV, Toyota’s Record Breaking and much more.

 

[Norbert]

Transport Evolved 66 - Silly Salinas

Regarding remarks about Walgreens locations being suitable for fast charger locations:

I looked up some locations in cities one might travel through, and surprisingly often there is a Walgreens very close to the freeway/highway.

 

[evchels]

Regarding remarks about Walgreens locations being suitable for fast charger locations:

I looked up some locations in cities one might travel through, and surprisingly often there is a Walgreens very close to the freeway/highway.

I agree- and wasn't ruling out Walgreens for that. Just pointing out that there are more aspects that are appropriate to consider than just whether the electrical service is there, as it sounded like that's Walgreens' only current consideration. I just want to see infrastructure effort and dollars spent for maximum effectiveness for the drivers, and that means being careful to put the right speed of charging in the right location. Too many, or in the wrong places, is as bad as too few. Most DC charging will likely remain a destination charge. But Level 2, and even Level 1 in small appropriate doses can enable charging to blend into the background while you love your life, vs scheduling your day around it- if we place it right.

 

[TEG]

FYI, Walgreens near San Jose:

 

[Norbert]

They all seem prime candidates for DC chargers, especially 36 and 52. Let's hope for 24/7, good for amortization.

 

[Norbert]

Interesting. 350green, the company installing the chargers at Walgreens, uses an argument which turns the usual point of view upside down:

Electric Cars, Chargers and Infrastructure Approach

Think about it. If it only takes less than half an hour to charge a car, why would you build charging stations where cars will be parked 8 hours at a time? Unfortunately, most current models are based on a 1-1 relationship between an EV and a charging station. While there are many reasons to consider this approach as a partial solution, there’s no doubt that it is more costly, requires more real estate and ultimately is not scalable.

EV drivers can fill up with electrons while they pick up their groceries. They can fill up their car with energy while they energize their bodies with coffee. Because we are not a charging technology company that derives revenue per unit, our network has been designed to serve the same number of EVs with a far fewer locations, reducing the cost to cities (and tax payers), keeping costs low for users, all while increasing the convenience and access for everyone.

Basically saying, if I understand this as it is meant, that DC fast charging is more economical, not more expensive. And more convenient on top of it.

 

[TEG]

I suppose it depends on the local value of real estate. What is the monthly rental value of the square foot of one parking space?
If they think one QC can replace multiple L2 spots in an expensive area it is a savings over time.

 

[Norbert]

I suppose it depends on the local value of real estate. What is the monthly rental value of the square foot of one parking space?
If they think one QC can replace multiple L2 spots in an expensive area it is a savings over time.

Yes, and it allows them to sell more electricity if customers stay a limited amount of time, and there is a limited number of parking spots which the site is willing or able to reserve for charging.

 

[Norbert]

Chelsea, why do you see DC charging as a destination charge?

 

[mpt]

Transport Evolved 67 - Vigilantism

Join Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield fromh Green Car Reports and Michael Thwaite from TeslaMotorsClub with guest Gavin Shoebridge as they discuss the weeks news in the world of green transport, including the AB475 defeat, Volvo's new electric drivetrain and much more. Full shownotes available here.

 

[JRP3]

Still think it's a good idea to call a car that burns more gas than a Prius an EV?
More Gas Than Electric
I can see the headlines now: "Electric car burns more gas than a Hummer" (<-Typical media distortion.)

 

[dpeilow]

Where in that actual press release (as opposed to Eric Loveday's imagination) did it say it burns more gas than the Prius?

 

[JRP3]

You didn't expect a GM press release to make that comparison did you?

 

[mpt]

Transport Evolved 68 - Crowd sourcing $1B

Join Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield fromh Green Car Reporrs and Michael Thwaite from TeslaMotorsClub with guest Kevin Sharpe as they discuss the week's news in the world of green transport, including the 2011 Frankfurt Auto Show, A Ferrari-Beating Volvo Hybrid, and much more.

 

[evchels]

Where in that actual press release (as opposed to Eric Loveday's imagination) did it say it burns more gas than the Prius?

I'm a bit surprised this is being treated as news. Based on the EPA ratings of both cars, the Prius will be more efficient on any trip longer than 137 miles. But obviously on a day-to-day commuting/urban driving basis, the Volt fares much better than a Prius. It's still the total picture that must be considered, and each of these vehicles will be better for different driving patterns.

 

[Norbert]

I'm a bit surprised this is being treated as news. Based on the EPA ratings of both cars, the Prius will be more efficient on any trip longer than 137 miles. But obviously on a day-to-day commuting/urban driving basis, the Volt fares much better than a Prius. It's still the total picture that must be considered, and each of these vehicles will be better for different driving patterns.

It is not treated as news, on the contrary. They are questioning the message in GM's press release. GM acts as if it were some newsworthy great event that EVs can make those travels. So they are pointing out that the Volt achieves those pseudo-feats with no special advantage or technical surprise (but plainly as a result of having an ICE). It should be no surprise that the Volt can make any travel that an ICE car can make. The only surprise might be that neither David nor you got that "takeaway point". GM's Volt marketing obviously keeps people from thinking in a straightforward manner.

 

[dpeilow]

I got this takeaway point

"Volt owners drove more than 6 million miles this summer, two-thirds of which were powered by electricity."

 

[Norbert]

I got this takeaway point

Wonderful! That's one-third better than what NREL gave as an average for HEVs. However, it is apparently the average in total, not that for road trips. The quote from Cristi Landy makes sense by itself (while the first part is again in the "better than electric" theme), but consider the preceding sentence: "Summer may be coming to an end, but for Chevrolet Volt owners, a new era in personal transportation is just beginning – the electric summer road trip." If that sentence makes sense to you, then you qualify as an unpaid astroturfer.

 

[evchels]

It is not treated as news, on the contrary. They are questioning the message in GM's press release. GM acts as if it were some newsworthy great event that EVs can make those travels. So they are pointing out that the Volt achieves those pseudo-feats with no special advantage or technical surprise (but plainly as a result of having an ICE). It should be no surprise that the Volt can make any travel that an ICE car can make. The only surprise might be that neither David nor you got that "takeaway point". GM's Volt marketing obviously keeps people from thinking in a straightforward manner.

Actually, I meant that I'm surprised that any of the outlets are writing up GM's press release as if it were news, not the comments here. But thanks for the consistent response...