Transport Evolved

[mpt]

Transport Evolved 74 - On the blink

Join Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield fromh Green Car Reporrs and Michael Thwaite from TeslaMotorsClub with guest Chelsea Sexton as they discuss the week’s news in the world of electric cars, including the fallout from last week’s Fisker EPA rating, The politics of charging, and much more.

 

[TEG]

They were questioning what may happen with Karma CARB certification.
I did a little searching, and noticed this:
Huge problem with Karma certification in Europe

...The problem is that the GM-engine (range-extender) does not meet emission standards set by the European Union. The engine produces too much CO2-emission when it has to start charging the empty battery pack and it makes a cold start. Once it warms up, there is no problem.

In the present state - the state of dozens if not hundreds of cars for European customers that have already been produced - it will not get the certification it needs. The cars will have to be modified to meet the required emission standard. Maybe Fisker Automotive can re-design it to let the engine run at low revs first, or maybe warm it up first? Then it might meet the requirements. The problem is that this GM-engine is a 'dirty' engine (Euro4). That's why Europe only wants Euro5 in new cars. I guess the only reason Fisker chose this engine, which isn't very efficient (24 mpg when charging the battery), is that no other manufacturer wanted to provide an engine (we know VW refused to).
As California has strict emission standards, just like Europe, I wonder if this is going to cause problem with the CARB-certification too. Maybe that's why there haven't been cheers from Fisker about the EPA-certification which they supposedly got on October 6...

...but...:

...I'm not sure what's under NDA and what isn't so I probably shouldn't go into details, but suffice to say that the issue has already been resolved...

 

[AnOutsider]

I remember seeing that on fiskerbuzz, but there was a follow up stating this wasn't an issue

 

[JRP3]

Is it too late to rip out the ICE and toss in more batteries? :tongue: They should have just made a proper EV from the start.

 

[VolkerP]

what about the issue of replacing the Karma's ICE with a BMW built engine?

 

[qwk]

Is it too late to rip out the ICE and toss in more batteries? :tongue: They should have just made a proper EV from the start.

I think Henrik set out on his own to prove Elon wrong. It looks to me that the opposite is actually happening...

 

[TEG]

Just a random unsubstantiated forum posting, but:
EPA Certification is Says Fisker

...More updates (and bad news for us in California):
The Karma will not qualify for HOV lane access in California.
...The Karma will not qualify for California’s Clean Vehicle Rebate Program.
...

 

[TEG]

MPT's comment about Honda Clarity doing 0-60 in 15s might be about one of the older/slower models.
The current one is supposedly < 10s.
2009 Honda FCX Clarity - Overview - CarGurus

...accelerate from 0-60 in 9 seconds...

Yeah, the Clarity motor in a Fit/Jazz EV would probably make it quite peppy/nippy...

 

[SByer]

Just a random unsubstantiated forum posting, but:
EPA Certification is Says Fisker

Well, the stupid green sticker program is hopelessly busted when the Volt doesn't get in but the PIP does!

 

[mpt]

Transport Evolved 75 - In Clear Focus

Join Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield from Green Car Reports and Michael Thwaite from TeslaMotorsClub with guest Will Dron from TheChargingPoint as they discuss the week’s news in the world of electric cars, including official pricing of the 2012 Ford Focus Electric, Fisker’s claimed 50 miles per charge and much more.

 

[mpt]

...doing 0-60 in 15s might be about one of the older/slower models...

Could be… I've yet to hear a good reason why they don't simply fill the Clarity with batteries to create a capable EV. Any ideas?

 

[JRP3]

Only the obvious ones, that they would create a capable EV that would further point out the foolishness of their FCV program.

 

[mpt]

Ahh, then someone would have to get fired... Yes, I see.

 

[doug]

Could be… I've yet to hear a good reason why they don't simply fill the Clarity with batteries to create a capable EV. Any ideas?

The fuel cell folks would be royally pissed if that happened.

 

[Norbert]

The fuel cell folks would be royally pissed if that happened.

Is that a "good" reason?

 

[mpt]

The fuel cell folks would be royally pissed if that happened.

Then perhaps Honda should send them all a car each, complimentary. There can't be more than two or three left right?

 

[TEG]

Honda FCX Clarity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The FCX Clarity is currently available for lease in the U.S., Japan and Europe. In the U.S., it is only available to customers who live in Southern California where "fast-fill" hydrogen stations are available. ...There are around 10 others on lease in Japan and another 10 in Europe. The number of fuel cell vehicles Honda can put on the road is significantly limited by the number of hydrogen stations the company can use.... In 2010, it is reported that there are a total of 50 FCX Clarity available for lease in the U.S.[SUP] [/SUP]with a target to have 200 available world-wide...

 

[JRP3]

I think Nikki is spreading incorrect information again, regarding "draining" the battery after an accident by puncturing it. They have to be talking about discharging the pack, not the electrolyte, since the battery is made up of many individual cells and you could not drain each individual cell without completely disassembling the pack. There may be liquid electrolyte, not much though, but it is flammable. However it is not necessarily toxic, some electrolyte you can actually drink, not that I'd recommend it.
Micheal, your idea of multiple fuses between cells isn't really practical, and if a single cell is shorted internally and catches fire isolating it electrically will not help, it can still catch it's neighbors on fire if it gets hot enough. Not a likely occurrence but possible.

 

[DaveD]

Micheal, your idea of multiple fuses between cells isn't really practical, and if a single cell is shorted internally and catches fire isolating it electrically will not help, it can still catch it's neighbors on fire if it gets hot enough. Not a likely occurrence but possible.

This is the Tesla pack we're talking about, correct? My examination of Tesla's patent filings of their battery pack technology has clear indications (to me) that all of the 69 cells in a brick are individually fused. The epoxy/(other thermal material) compound that the cells in those bricks are "potted" in is specifically designed to thermally isolate the cells from one another, acting to absorb and dissipate much of the heat generated should a cell (cells?) experience a thermal/venting event, thus preventing a "chain reaction". Previous postings on this forum have guessed/stated that the bricks are probably assembled in an automated fashion (which I agree with), so welding a fusible link to every cell is feasible to do.

 

[JRP3]

Actually it was the Volt pack that was being discussed. From what I've seen I think the cells are all stacked together, there may be some thermal material between them, but they are also less prone to thermal runaway than the LiCo cells that Tesla uses. Michael was suggesting a string of fuses for each cell that could be easily removed to isolate all cells from each other.