Transport Evolved

[mpt]

...Hopefully Elon's background in software means he's hired the right guys and set the right vision for the quality targets. There are some techniques specific to high reliability software (I used to work on medical software), so hopefully those will be applied.

I agree, it seems that coming from a silicon valley background has you thinking in a certain way; anticipating the unusual use cases perhaps. I don't know, I just felt that the Tesla software was more fundamentally 'right' out of the gate. Even the new ActiveE is reporting drive train faults already however, they do feel like over-keen error reporting more than actual faults as they dismiss themselves as the code sort of wakes up and forgets there was ever a problem, sort of "What drive train fault? What are you talking about? Who said there was a problem?" - You did - "Nope, all good here, you must be mistaken."

Model S does have the advantage that it can update software via download.

That's going to be a killer feature.

 

[Doug_G]

Model S does have the advantage that it can update software via download.

Yes, as long as they are careful with their releases, that could be a real boon for us "early adopters".

 

[ckessel]

To be honest, what gives me far more warm fuzzies about the software is the fact Elon runs SpaceX where high reliability, fault tolerant software is a very big deal. I'm not sure how much cross pollination there is aside from Elon between the companies, but it does mean at least one guy in power has a high reliability mindset and experience.

 

[dpeilow]

Had to laugh about this episode. News about the British government dropping a substantial amount of money (more per capita than the US ever has) on hydrogen was given about as much airtime as a bunch of guys driving an old milkfloat across Cornwall.

 

[mpt]

Transport Evolved 86 - Revenge of the Chevy Volt

Join Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield from Green Car Reports, Michael Thwaite from TeslaMotorsClub, and guest Chris Nelder from SmartPlanet as they discuss the week’s news in the world of electric cars, as well as the politics of oil production and the move towards a greener transportation future.

 

[JRP3]

Good show, Chris was very interesting.

 

[Norbert]

Good show, Chris was very interesting.

Yes, except for the (incorrect) bit about SuperCharging available standard only with Signature and Performance (just the usual fluctuations in reality, I suppose). That seemed so coming out of nothing (related to old news) that I expect it to continue next week in some fashion. And am not holding my breath for a rail system to substantially lower our energy consumption by 2025, though better rail would be really good.

 

[mpt]

only with Signature and Performance

I thought Nikki said that it was only, not available on the 160mile range entry level car, and that you'd have to go to the higher range cars to get the DC charger, no?

 

[JRP3]

I appreciated you using the correct term "hybrid" for the P-D rally winner, though Nikki tried to incorrectly correct you :wink: Don't give in!

 

[JRP3]

I just checked and Nikki said the supercharging is not standard on the 230 mile model.

 

[ckessel]

Maybe I misunderstood, but after Chris goes through the various bits of math on energy supplies it sounds like the end of the world was coming within 10-15 years unless the entire world switches to rail. Which isn't going to happen.

 

[mpt]

I think that it was more; we're fooling ourselves if we think that we can carry on as we are. As for the end of the world; I'm in the gasoline prices will climb, transport for food will increase in cost until the government will have to step in to protect fuel supplies for food transport and kill gasoline subsidies, camp. We'll have riots like those we've seen in Nigeria when Goodluck Jonathan tried to do the same; reduce govt subsidies on gasoline.

I'm not a huge rail fan since I learnt how efficient (fuel and space) autonomous cars can be; I see those as the saviour of our transportation needs.

 

[Norbert]

I thought Nikki said that it was only, not available on the 160mile range entry level car, and that you'd have to go to the higher range cars to get the DC charger, no?

Yes, but the way I remember it, after you mentioned that on the 230 model it is an option, she referred to it being standard on the Signature and Performance model only. She mentioned those two, in that context, without the (surely much more common, and less expensive) "normal" 300 mile model. However I don't have the time right now to double-check.

 

[dpeilow]

I'm not a huge rail fan since I learnt how efficient (fuel and space) autonomous cars can be; I see those as the saviour of our transportation needs.

Call me when they can do 350 km/h with the same per-passenger energy use and their track doesn't need tons of tar.

 

[doug]

I have to say I didn't particularly like Chris's negative attitude. He seemed to say that we can't support EVs until grid is completely renewable. And even then the cars really need to replaced with rail/public transportation.

While those issues are related, I think they should be approached independently since they each have a benefit independent of each other. Sure renewable energy makes EVs cleaner, but the one shouldn't have to wait for the other.

 

[Doug_G]

I have to say I didn't particularly like Chris's negative attitude. He seemed to say that we can't support EVs until grid is completely renewable. And even then the cars really need to replaced with rail/public transportation.

While those issues are related, I think they should be approached independently since they each have a benefit independent of each other. Sure renewable energy makes EVs cleaner, but the one shouldn't have to wait for the other.

I think he was saying that the downward slope from peak oil, and subsequently peak natural gas, will be so bad that it will also seriously affect power generation capacity.

He did sound very pessimistic, but if he's running the numbers that may be due to scary-looking calculations rather than "attitude". Needless to say I'd like to see the numbers behind his predictions. (I haven't tried to look for them yet... anyone know?)

 

[doug]

I'm pretty sure he said that for EVs to make sense you need to have clean renewable power generation. I'd like to see his numbers too, since the last time I looked into it EVs make a positive impact even with the existing grid.

 

[ChadS]

the last time I looked into it EVs make a positive impact even with the existing grid.

Definitely. HERE is a 2008 overview of about 3 dozen studies showing that even on the 2008 grid the average EV has only about half the emissions of the average gas car. I've seen plenty of follow-up studies confirming the same since.

I also saw one study that didn't confirm this; but it was clearly leaving things out.

 

[Norbert]

Yes, but the way I remember it, after you mentioned that on the 230 model it is an option, she referred to it being standard on the Signature and Performance model only. She mentioned those two, in that context, without the (surely much more common, and less expensive) "normal" 300 mile model. However I don't have the time right now to double-check.

Yes, I did remember correctly, at 1:23:28 she says "The only car it comes standard on is the top of the range Signature and Performance model". (Where actually it comes standard with all 300-mile range packs, which however is unfortunate nevertheless, given the price of the 300 mile pack is $20k, but not Tesla's fault I believe). Given her comment "check your math", I'd hope she'd be more careful in reading the pricing & options page. I noticed it since a few episodes earlier she was already exaggerating things from the pricing & options page (as if that was necessary), but apparently hadn't really read it at that point, and was following some comment in the chat room. Her recent article seemed quite correct though, but wasn't specific on that detail. I paid attention to those things since I was trying to figure out where this "reality distortion field" talk was coming from, that John Volcker and her discussed previously, and other between-the-lines stuff. Fact is even the Volt is too expensive, and it doesn't even make profit, as far as we know. That's just why batteries tech needs to improve, and not something to throw at each manufacturer (after getting excited about the Lotus conversion being $300k+). Aside from that Tesla needs to build up high-volume mass-manufacturing in order to save cost on the body/car etc.

 

[Norbert]

While those issues are related, I think they should be approached independently since they each have a benefit independent of each other. Sure renewable energy makes EVs cleaner, but the one shouldn't have to wait for the other.

Exactly, and additionally,
a) the EVs you buy today improve along with future grid improvements, and
b) by the time there are enough EVs to have a potentially larger effect on the numbers, the grid will already be improved. They will "grow" together.