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Traffic: 120 miles in 5 hours. Passed a dozen+ out-of-gas ICE vehicles.
- Thread starter wk057
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
I think when we drove ICE vehicles, we might take advantage of the fact that there was generally a gas station readily available to gas up as needed. Some might say "I'll just keep driving until I get closer to home to fill up, I've got plenty..." Only to get caught in a traffic jam. Several times I was riding on fumes into the gas station due to a traffic jam or construction. I think as EV owners, we tend to more cognitive and think ahead. Whereas ICE owners may just think "I'll worry about it later".
To that, it's nice to hear of the efficiencies of an EV in slow traffic. It doesn't make it an less annoying however. I upgraded from the P85 to the P85D which came with autopilot and love TACC for this particular reason. I also agree that it is fortuitous that this happened in warmer weather as opposed to a really cold winter. I've discovered that the electric coils can really consume some miles! The heatpump works REALLY well as if it's slightly warmer.
To that, it's nice to hear of the efficiencies of an EV in slow traffic. It doesn't make it an less annoying however. I upgraded from the P85 to the P85D which came with autopilot and love TACC for this particular reason. I also agree that it is fortuitous that this happened in warmer weather as opposed to a really cold winter. I've discovered that the electric coils can really consume some miles! The heatpump works REALLY well as if it's slightly warmer.
yes,
twice i have parked the car with so little petrol that it refused to start. It felt so so unfair, the car got me to work, but refused to start.
Its a bit a of a game actually, eventually we go a bit too far.
igotzzoom
Active Member
I ran out of gas once. That was unpleasant enough for me that the lowest I typically go is a little under 1/4 of a tank. It always amazes me how many people I see pulled over (presumably) because they ran out of gas. I am fortunate enough to be blessed that the $50-60 to fill up the tank isn't a question of whether or not I'm going to have dinner tonight, but I wonder how many people are chronically short on money that its a real "either or" scenario?
I think there should be an unmistakable notification when the GPS is re-routing you due to traffic conditions. Something very noticeable overlaid on the screen.
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It should stay on the screen longer and should inform you if it's in the initial route.
I know it's complicated. I was always annoyed when my Lexus would constantly ask if it should re-route around traffic miles ahead on the route. The should be something in between that works without being too annoying.
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Unfortunately, I have had a contrary experience.
Last year, my family and I drove from Boston down to Wellfleet on Cape Cod. We got stuck in some of the all-too-common horrendous Cape traffic. At one point, it was taking an hour or more to travel a single mile. After a while, I noticed that our energy use was skyrocketing -- the graph was pegged at or near the maximum. I became worried that we were going to quickly run out of juice. We had plenty to get to our destination under normal circumstances, but having the energy usage pegged while in stop-and-go traffic was going to lead to disaster.
I called Tesla (while in the car) to ask what was going on. The person I spoke with said, yeah, under normal conditions, you wouldn't be using much energy. But the stop-and-go nature of the traffic meant that we were constantly asking the car to move a little bit at a time. That turns out to be highly inefficient -- overcoming friction, moving the car a foot or two, then stopping again. I was very surprised, but the Tesla support person insisted that that was the explanation.
Pretty much every other time I've been stuck in traffic with my Model S, the result has been as you, @wk07, and others would expect: energy usage appears to be much better conserved in a Model S than in the idling ICEs all around us.
Alan
Blu Zap
Grinning member
Ya a very unexpected and painful situation. I have found sound advice from the nav 6.2. I was routed a crazy way to the Sonoma Wine Country from Marin County. I expanded the Google maps view to confirm and sure enough, the traffic jam showed up in time to follow the sage advice from the MS. We saved a ton of time and it was right on with predicted time of arrival.
On the other note of creeping along in traffic. One of Elon's recent presentations included an answer to an audience question about that. His answer was that if the MS 85 is creeping along a 5 - 10 miles an hour, it will have range for 22 hours! Yikes! I hope I wouldn't need that ever. Starts and stops may affect, as well as Climate control etc. But the idea as originally pointed out in this thread, that a MS will out survive an ICE in a traffic jam.
On the other note of creeping along in traffic. One of Elon's recent presentations included an answer to an audience question about that. His answer was that if the MS 85 is creeping along a 5 - 10 miles an hour, it will have range for 22 hours! Yikes! I hope I wouldn't need that ever. Starts and stops may affect, as well as Climate control etc. But the idea as originally pointed out in this thread, that a MS will out survive an ICE in a traffic jam.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Alan,
Was it cold when you experienced the high energy use? Could you have been seeing the battery heater running to keep the pack warm? I wonder if Range Mode would have cut down how much the battery beater was running.
Was it cold when you experienced the high energy use? Could you have been seeing the battery heater running to keep the pack warm? I wonder if Range Mode would have cut down how much the battery beater was running.
My energy usage *per mile* was super high, on the graph and on the trip meter... however that was just because I wasn't really moving much. It's not an indication of actually high usage. If you use 5 rated miles in a mile of travel, the graph will be pegged for the next few miles (rolling average) since you used ~1500Wh that mile. But that's not actually all that much power for hours of stop and go.
I've fallen into the trap of ignoring the nav system, too, but only because the nav system's normal routing just isn't up to par. My car has a particular love for St. Jacob, IL, and wants me to drive through this tiny little town pretty regularly, rather than using the highways that go right by it. The most current maps - a year and 3 months later - still don't know about the Musial - Veterans bridge across the Mississippi and keeps demanding I make left turns onto surface streets in East St. Louis.
When going to unknown destinations, I generally have both Tesla's nav and Waze nav up, and if it appears they're different, I look very closely at the routes to see what's wrong.
When going to unknown destinations, I generally have both Tesla's nav and Waze nav up, and if it appears they're different, I look very closely at the routes to see what's wrong.
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
I love the OP's story. I showed a client my car and he loved it. He decided to buy an ICE soon after though and said he and his wife didn't want to have to worry about running out of juice if they got stuck in traffic with the AC on. I told him the AC hardly uses any power in the grand scheme of range but he was adamant about it. He is not the first person to bring-up that concern.
I have said it before.....it's crazy how much range anxiety people have BEFORE they own an EV. Me included. Once you own one for a few days, you realize that it is mostly unfounded.
I have said it before.....it's crazy how much range anxiety people have BEFORE they own an EV. Me included. Once you own one for a few days, you realize that it is mostly unfounded.
Sorry, in that situation, I'd much rather be in an ICE. Sure, if I misplanned, I may run out of fuel, but getting a gallon of gas is far easier (and quicker) than getting electrons. I dunno, the story just seems "meh" to me, since if the OP had misplanned or misjudged like the ICE drivers, they would've been further up the creek than the ICE drivers.
I don't agree at all. Part of the whole point of the post was to show that the Model S used virtually no appreciable energy as a result of the traffic jam itself. So even with poor planning if I would have made it normally I would have made it with the traffic jam included too. The same can't be said about the ICE drivers who would have likely made it normally but didn't due to the traffic jam.
Long story short, the traffic jam had as pretty insignificant impact on energy usage in the Model S, but the ICE drivers were using much more fuel than they expected.
Last summer on a road trip we were about 15 miles north of Lake Havasu City in 100F+ weather (wow, beautiful!!) and got stopped by a huge traffic jam after a hay bale trailer and Fed Ex truck had a disagreement about time and space. We happened to be stopped right beside a cutover back to the highway in the other direction, so it was quite possible for us to choose another route. We had 92RM on the gauge, and 33 miles to Kingman, and this was our first experience of this type. What to do? We finally decided to wait in the jam until Rated Miles hit 80, then head the other way and change our plans. We were thinking, that'll give us half an hour? More? We went back to our audiobook and sat in complete comfort with the A/C on for what ended up taking 2.5 hours. At one point I thought I'd get out to see if I could see any movement ahead, after all, from within the car it looked like a gorgeous Victoria day of about 25C (75-80F). BOOM! The heat hit me like a fist. I was so surprised, because even with the sun trying unsuccessfully to put discomfort through the closed sunroof, the car was totally comfortable.
In the end, we used 6RM before traffic got moving again, 2.5 hours in 100F+ heat. We were quite pleased. Didn't notice any ICEs that couldn't get going, but I do remember thinking while parked that it's a bit nonsensical in that kind of heat to have to have an ICE put out so much additional heat just to keep the A/C on.
Hi, @Cyclone,
Nope, not cold. August temperatures on the Cape. I turned off the AC, turned on Range Mode. Still sky-high energy use as reported by the graph. But stay tuned, I need to think about @wk07's response.
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Hi, @wk057,
You raise an interesting point. So you're saying that I would've seen the pegged graph (which I did, boy oh boy was it pegged), but maybe I was using 1500Wh/mi (or 5 rated miles per actual mile). So I would have had plenty of energy with which to do that stop-and-go for the next few hours.
But that turns the whole situation around. Instead of thinking of the Model S as being "almost immune" (I made that up) to the "idling problem", I think now I have to split that out as:
+ Actually stopped, not moving at all, for an extended period of time -- Model S is WAY better on energy use than an idling ICE
+ Stop-and-go -- Model S might still be better than an idling ICE, but I might wind up using 5X the energy I expect to move a mile. Which might have a knock-on effect on a long trip, where I might wind up needing to recharge sooner than planned.
Would you agree?
Thanks,
Alan
P.S. Really wished I had kept notes of the incident. 9 months later, I no longer recall how many rated miles were getting chewed up. I just remember being nervous, which is a very unusual sensation for me in the Model S. I've been driving this car since August, 2013, and it has been nothing but a joy with little or none of the dreaded "range anxiety". Which I really view as being "time anxiety".
Nope, not cold. August temperatures on the Cape. I turned off the AC, turned on Range Mode. Still sky-high energy use as reported by the graph. But stay tuned, I need to think about @wk07's response.
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Hi, @wk057,
You raise an interesting point. So you're saying that I would've seen the pegged graph (which I did, boy oh boy was it pegged), but maybe I was using 1500Wh/mi (or 5 rated miles per actual mile). So I would have had plenty of energy with which to do that stop-and-go for the next few hours.
But that turns the whole situation around. Instead of thinking of the Model S as being "almost immune" (I made that up) to the "idling problem", I think now I have to split that out as:
+ Actually stopped, not moving at all, for an extended period of time -- Model S is WAY better on energy use than an idling ICE
+ Stop-and-go -- Model S might still be better than an idling ICE, but I might wind up using 5X the energy I expect to move a mile. Which might have a knock-on effect on a long trip, where I might wind up needing to recharge sooner than planned.
Would you agree?
Thanks,
Alan
P.S. Really wished I had kept notes of the incident. 9 months later, I no longer recall how many rated miles were getting chewed up. I just remember being nervous, which is a very unusual sensation for me in the Model S. I've been driving this car since August, 2013, and it has been nothing but a joy with little or none of the dreaded "range anxiety". Which I really view as being "time anxiety".
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While I agree "we" have almost no range anxiety, other EV owners still definitely suffer from it. A local EV group met up about a month ago... the meeting spot picked was at a recently opened Supercharger, midway between the two main cities in the region, a touch over 100 miles from both cities. The organizer had to drive an ICE instead of his Leaf. Others did make the trek in Leafs and Kia Soul EVs and I think a Chevy Spark EV as well. The Leaf owners, upon getting home, and almost running out of juice, strongly requested no such midway meetings again. The Spark owner actually left his car overnight to recharge. The Tesla members that came, even without the Supercharger, wouldn't have been stressed (given that it was in the summer... in the winter, without the SC, it gets a bit more concerning).
dsmith2189
Active Member
recently had a situation similar to the OP. here in Honolulu, HI. the Zipper (commuter) lane that they open in the AM (easterly) and close for the PM (westerly) commute broke. this restricted the westbound lanes to 3 instead of 5. additionally there is a long term construction project on the alternate route. the 20 mile commute took some people up to 7 hours to get home. yes, 7 hours to go 20 miles. many people in ICE vehicles reported running out of gas. the one comment I got from ICE drivers was that they were glad they were not in a MS during this traffic (they know I drive one). I corrected them and told them that electric vehicles fared better in the traffic because when not moving they consume very little battery power. a fellow MS owner did some back of the envelope calculations and noted that sitting still with the AC on would take a over a week to discharge. My commute that day? took me about 20 minutes to go 20 miles because I go opposite the normal commuter traffic.:biggrin:
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Right, and how would a supercharger have coped with such an onslaught, e.g. after traffic was stuck because of heavy snowfall? Do you believe that the people who manage to run out of gas with an ICE won't be doing the same with a BEV?
With an ICE all roadside assistance has to do is to fill in a couple of litres of fuel, how about the BEV?
In certain states in the USA AAA (American Automobile Association) emergency vehicles have chargers on them.
AAA Unveils North Americas First Roadside Assistance Truck Capable of Charging Electric Vehicles | AAA NewsRoom
