Toyota 'Mirai' Fuel Cell Sedan

[renim]

Di

Direct thermal plus electricity.
Simple, except it's not.
Efficiency?

all the red areas have accessible temperature at around 240 degrees Celsius or higher.
just like solar, the quantities of energy available are basically unfathomable, but when i last did a back of envelope check, a single lease could expand to fulfill Australia's entire electricity production. but the initial hurdles are high, incremental additions are low.

anyway, using simple tech, heat can be boosted, if the 'cool' sink remains hot, so boosting heat from 240C up to 500C is not a big deal if the cool side is still 240C, Carnot efficiency rules determine outcomes, so this will not improve electricity generating outcomes, but for a direct thermal process, Sweet.

point is, just as solar cells are a viable way to access solar fusion, deep wells are a way to access internal radiogenic heat sources. there is no need for nuclear power plants be, they fission or fusion

its simpler just to drill a shorter hole and crack the methane, but lets be real, the resource is there, and is truly massive, just as there is no practical limit to amount of electricity australia could generate from solar PV, there is also no practical limit to the amount of 500C heat australia could generate from geothermal. but what use is it, when it is a stranded asset in the middle of a nowhere desert?

i dont know about other countries geothermal resource, but Japan has a lot of history with volcanic geothermal (as opposed to non volcanic geothermal in australia)

 

[mspohr]

How do you get from 240C to 500C ? (simple and cheap)

 

[renim]

How do you get from 240C to 500C ? (simple and cheap)

I would ask a supplier in the industrial, heat pump industry how they would do it, Their answer would presumably be some type of reverse cycle https://thermodynamics-engineer.com/429-2/ using the 240C as the cool sink. Its basically related tech to scavenger power units used in places like steel mills etc.
If you want a uni type lecture. Kalina Cycle

Personally, I understand the old Stirling cycle more intuitively, pistons are not as cost effective as turbines, but simpler to conceptualize.

A suitably designed Stirling pump, can use the heat input only as the energy source, mechanical energy input is not to add energy to the system, but to displace fluid around the system. Some other cycles could also use that principle.

 

[mspohr]

I would ask a supplier in the industrial, heat pump industry how they would do it, Their answer would presumably be some type of reverse cycle https://thermodynamics-engineer.com/429-2/ using the 240C as the cool sink. Its basically related tech to scavenger power units used in places like steel mills etc.
If you want a uni type lecture. Kalina Cycle

Personally, I understand the old Stirling cycle more intuitively, pistons are not as cost effective as turbines, but simpler to conceptualize.

A suitably designed Stirling pump, can use the heat input only as the energy source, mechanical energy input is not to add energy to the system, but to displace fluid around the system. Some other cycles could also use that principle.

These look like mechanical power generators. Not sure how they could be used to generate 500C from 240C and then somehow use that to generate H2 (the point of this topic)

 

[renim]

These look like mechanical power generators. Not sure how they could be used to generate 500C from 240C and then somehow use that to generate H2 (the point of this topic)

most interest in stirling heat pumps is for cryogenic cooling, but the principles still hold for heating as well. a heat pump with a high and low between ambient and 240, connected to a heat pump between 240 and 500.

in practise, some other cycle with turbines would be more economic, what is simple in theory, in practise requires expertise, a company like Ormat Technologies Ormat Technologies Inc. - Ormat Technologies Inc. - Renewable Energy Expertise would have the type of expertise.

 

[renim]

asian brent linked lng price for natural gas is around 4x higher than USA price. Warp factor: Asia's LNG markets distorted by oil price surge - Reuters a Japanese company buying brent linked lng might pay $10.50 for what an american company pays $2.5

that affects the economics of fossil derived hydrogen feedstock is 4x cheaper in USA

 

[mspohr]

View attachment 420819
most interest in stirling heat pumps is for cryogenic cooling, but the principles still hold for heating as well. a heat pump with a high and low between ambient and 240, connected to a heat pump between 240 and 500.

in practise, some other cycle with turbines would be more economic, what is simple in theory, in practise requires expertise, a company like Ormat Technologies Ormat Technologies Inc. - Ormat Technologies Inc. - Renewable Energy Expertise would have the type of expertise.

Cooling, yes. But how do you generate 500C from 240C?

 

[cwerdna]

Toyota Mirai Hydrogen Cars Now for Rent to Vancouver Lyft Drivers

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Toyota Mirai Hydrogen Cars Now for Rent to Vancouver Lyft Drivers

I'm sure Lyft drivers will be scrabbling to get their hands on a vehicle that will cost them 2.3x as much as a Prius to refuel.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

I'm sure Lyft drivers will be scrabbling to get their hands on a vehicle that will cost them 2.3x as much as a Prius to refuel.

All it'll take is for at least 5 of time to take up the offer, and they'll learn first hand that the 4th person in line to refuel will have to wait an additional 15 minutes for the nozzle to defrost!

I'm just astounded that Toyota hasn't learned their lesson?!