This is dangerous - for my wallet. Another should I thread.

[ricbah]

Dude, not trying to be mean but you care way too much about what other people think. It's a car, not a gold plated toilet. Who cares if people think it's bad purchase, all that matters is that you (and your wife) know the facts and the facts are that it is a perfectly logical and practical purchase given your driving habits.

Also, it is the safest car on the road and you have kids, so there's that to consider. This is a point that you can't put a price tag one.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, not trying to be mean but you care way too much about what other people think. It's a car, not a gold plated toilet. Who cares if people think it's bad purchase, all that matters is that you (and your wife) know the facts and the facts are that it is a perfectly logical and practical purchase given your driving habits.

Also, it is the safest car on the road and you have kids, so there's that to consider. This is a point that you can't put a price tag one.

Wow, looks like I'm bad at typing tonight.

 

[stevezzzz]

To the OP: you're a goner. :biggrin:

Just do it, and save yourself the gnashing of teeth and tearing of hair. The sooner it's in your garage, the less you'll beat yourself up later for waiting so long.

 

[Rockster]

I'm going to try my hardest to cool my jets for right now, so I can get some semblance of work done. I've wasted a good bit of my day reading about charging times, air suspension, etc etc. that I've hardly got any work done.

I've got a short conference in Dallas in April, I might find a way to sneak on over to Northpark and take a look or two. Another bad idea I think.

Farther down the rabbit hole I go...

I'm in McKinney. PM me and we can arrange to get together. You can take a look at mine and we can chat in person. I had many of the same concerns 18 months ago. 30,000 miles later I've never been happier.

 

[rjcbox]

To the OP: I'm far down that rabbit hole - there's no turning back

 

[MartinAustin]

JMG get the 85D. Here is a price breakdown -

85D $79,900
Dual Motor $5,000
Dual Chargers $1,500
HPWC $750
Tech Package w/ Autopilot $4,250
Smart Air Suspension $2,250
Subtotal $93,650
Sales Tax $5,853
Delivery $1,170
Total $100,673

Minus your tax credit when you file your 2015 taxes in 2016...

Total $93,173

If you want to get expensive paint or leather/interior, that will cost you more.

If you think you can do without the dual chargers and HPWC, and just use a 220V socket at home, you will save $1500 on the car, and an additional $750 which isn't part of the car itself, but a connector that you attach to the wall of your house.

I had to pay an additional $3,000 to upgrade my house to support the HPWC wall connector (plus the cost of the HPWC itself and dual chargers). This varies from house to house depending on what supply you already have available at your house, and what lengths of cable etc. electricians will have to run to install what you need. Some people pay as little as $300, or even go to Home Depot and get the parts themselves, though these are a lucky few with the right pre-existing conditions already at their houses.

No-one can see the money I spent upgrading my house, they only see the car

I recommend getting those options above, and including the HPWC, since the few times you actually have to wait while the car charges up, it can be a real pain.

The all-wheel-drive and adjustable suspension height will prove useful in rural areas, where you previously negotiated your Tahoe without worrying about whether the vehicle would scrape on the ground, or get trapped in mud, snow etc..

RE: the elistist thing... I went through that "statement of wealth" thought process a lot, and well, there is no doubt that driving around in a Tahoe conceals the fact that you can actually afford a $100K car. My previous car was an 11yr-old Civic... definitely ubiquitous. The change in cars definitely changed people's idea of what is in my bank account... but honestly, they still don't know for sure. My Tesla Model S may be my last ever car! And it could be yours, too. I had them deliver my car without the "P85" badging, so if anyone is looking who knows the difference, they can't tell it from an S60. I think you should reward yourself for what you have achieved.

Driving around a Tesla Model S actually does other people a favour too. You're not putting carbon into the atmosphere. It's pretty well-ingrained in most other nations, and just now dawning on Americans, especially those living in rural areas. In 20 years time it will be perfectly normal to consider how much carbon gets put into the atmosphere by anything+everything we do. If you choose the Tesla, you will show your neighbours that it is OK to have an electric car, that you personally took the time to consider it (instead of not thinking about it at all, and just another gas-burning car). They will know you were one of the first to understand. In these times where a lot of people seem to value protecting what they have got and reducing their accountability to others... the lone atmosphere that is shared by everyone on the planet will become an increasingly unavoidable subject of discussion, and we will come to realise that no matter how much money we have got, we can't simply do whatever we want.

Woah, coming back from the politics a bit... so, the car you're considering has been Consumer Reports' "Best Car" two years in a row so far, it's had multiple other awards, safest crash ratings from the U.S. government, and legions of existing drivers all raving about it, etc., etc. - a situation you don't see on any other car. The advantages of Tesla's all-wheel-drive system haven't had time to sink in yet but I believe their implementation is one of the best, right out of the gate. It's literally the best car there is right now. You will NOT regret the purchase.

PLUS - your blood pressure will fall if you get this car, it's so serene and calming compared to combustion cars.

 

[eepic]

Welcome to the forums JMG!

I don't blame your wife questioning your sanity when you suddenly say you want to buy a $100k car out of the blue. Find some time to watch these two documentaries with your wife and kids (if they're old enough). It's a great way for you both to learn about and get familiar with Tesla Motors and the principles of Elon Musk and the incredible things he's accomplishing. It could help warm up your wife to the idea, plus it's almost surreal to watch these then go to one of the stores and see it all in person.

National Geographic Megafactories - Tesla Tesla Motors Megafactories - The Future of Electric Cars - YouTube
Bloomberg Risk Takers - Elon Musk (this one is on Netflix too) Billionaire Elon Musk: How I Became The Real - YouTube

My advice would be to take your time with this decision - there's no need to rush it. There is a wealth of information about Tesla and its vehicles on this forum you can explore, and lots of folks around happy to share their knowledge. There's probably going to be lots of little concerns you and your wife will wonder about, and this is a great place to ask away.

 

[Clomer]

From the perspective of a college student that is grateful that his 13-year-old Saturn runs well because he can't afford anything else...

I'd say that if you can afford it without putting your family in financial trouble, then go for it. The two main concerns you brought up in your initial post were how much it costs and how it will be perceived. Don't look at a car purchase as an investment - it is a tool. You will get use out of it, and in the case of a Model S, enjoyment as well. It is an expense, but hopefully you will get something out of it that can't be measured in ROI terms. Also, when you take into account the small operating cost, it might not be as bad as the initial sticker price implies, especially when looked at in terms of the expected life of the car.

As for the perception issue - the only people it really matters on how it looks are yourself and your immediate family. Don't let it create a rift in your marriage - if it will do that, it's probably not worth it. However, if your wife and kids are on board, then it doesn't really matter what the neighbors think. The neighbors probably splurge on things in their own ways, ways that you might think are wasteful, and it is their prerogative to do so.

If I were in your position, I probably would have already ordered.

 

[tezco]

Don't forget that there are quite a few very nice trade-in S models available now that the AWD version is out. You might be able to have your cake and eat it too!

 

[Dbitter1]

As a few others have said... don't worry about what everyone else outside your family thinks. You need to drive it (although I had my mind made up way before I ever drove one, but I've been glued to Tesla since the roadster, so it would be challenging to say my homework wasn't done), think about the reasons why YOU want it, and then make the call. For example...

Early 30's, married, 2 kids,

Looks like the start of the American dream... would you want your wife and kids in anything less than the highest ranked vehicle in crash tests? When your kids learn to drive, how much effort does it take to flip the SUV? The physics of the MS are on your side...

Currently I'm driving a gas guzzling 2011 Tahoe

Electric cars are so awesome. No. Gas. Ever. (I had to stop at a gas station this year... for my snowblower...) If... and I'm only saying "if"... you have Prius/hybrid owners looking down on you for driving a gas guzzler, causing global warming, whatever... you can roll down the window, scream "zero emissions, b%^#h!" and then rocket off with ~1.2Gs of acceleration (requires P85D) and a big-a$# smile on your face. If that is your style, not saying it is. But it is possible!

Here out in the rural parts of the country...guys either drive a truck...or a truck

Heh. Why? Pulling a trailer is a legitimate use for a truck, or hauling a fifth-wheel, etc. If you aren't doing that... than I wouldn't even worry. You aren't going to get stuck (requires *D); see the people driving up in the land of moose and hockey on this board. WAAAAY out in the country, and they love it!

I love fast cars

P85D. Fastest production sedan IN THE WORLD, and it could be yours!

Again, just the money.

This is a hard one, and no one but you can answer it. I am blessed that I could afford one, no question that a very significant portion of the US cannot. Could I have spent the money otherwise? Of course! But tomorrow, I might be dead. I have "retirement funds" but often wonder if gold bricks in a pit in the backyard and a couple-orders-of-magnitude increase in firearms would produce a better result when I retire. I don't wonder if the money would have bought a better car... that isn't possible IMHO, and I don't lose a wink of sleep over it.

Hope that helps!

 

[ssq]

I love this thread! OP I am so much like you when it comes to researching and buying things. My wife is so tired of me obsessing over the model S that she simply says buy it and get done with it or shut up! Hahaha

 

[bp1000]

Try not to overthink it OP

If you are comfortable with your investments/retirement plan and living costs are low then you deserve to treat yourself for building relatively solid financial stability into your life. You only live once!

If you can still have holidays and enough cash to pay unexpected bills or trips out for the day then go for the car if it's what you can't stop thinking about.

Just a thought, here in the UK we can buy it through the company. This has at least 2 major advantages if you own the company. First you don't pay corporation tax on it. It is a 100% write down on profits so it obviously reduces your corporation tax bill. In my case it also reduces the rate of corporate tax I pay because it means my company made less profit. It effectively means the car is 20k cheaper straight away. Secondly because you bought it through the company vs personal it is essentially tax free. Eg if I bought it personally i would have had to earn £145k gross to pay for its £88k list price. Because of all the taxes on my personal income and salary. Bought through the company with corporate tax saving, it's actuallg going to cost me 68k which surprisingly is less than half the cost if I bought it personally. Simply because it attracts no tax at all and it actually is treated as a 100% capital allowance thus writing down my profit and reducing my corporate tax bill.

Of course it's also an asset on the books with a value but I wouldn't factor in long term value as its a moving target, but i will obviously get some of my 68k purchase back in the future.

Don't forget also that buying it releases cash tied up in your current vehicles (if you sell the,) so you could factor that in when calculating how much it's going to cost you. when you factor that in and the way cheaper running costs, especially free fuel its a very attractive proposition.

As you are a business owner hopefully you can take advantage of making it a company purchase?

 

[Deltaflaze]

You only live once. Enjoy it.

 

[gavine]

My wife was a little hesitant about spending that much on a car, but guess what, we now reserved a Model X for her to accompany our S. Needless to say, she's sold on Tesla. The car is THAY good. Oh, and she was always against having solar panels. One guess what's on our roof now. She's a keeper.

 

[sandpiper]

1) The elitist effect. We are very conscientious of trying not to look like we're trying to show off. That's why we currently drive a Chevy and a GMC. In our small rural communities, even a Lexus will generate the perception that John Smith is just throwing money away and trying to show off. I know this vehicle turns heads, and I kind of like the fact that from one angle it could look like just your standard sedan and another angle you're like "Whoa is that a Maserati?" Have any of you found any negative social connotations with buying a $100k vehicle? I know in a neighborhood where Range Rovers and Mercedes are the norm, it would be no big deal. But driving around in a town where my vehicle cost twice as much as the majority of the homes here would really make me second guess myself, and wander if I'm really just being too materialistic.

This was my #1 concern. I come from a northern mining city, where F150s are probably the most common vehicle. And my prior vehicle was.... an F150.

I've owned the car for a month and there's been zero "elitist" commentary at all that I've noticed. Because it burns no gas, and because it's not a showy looking car, the Tesla seems to get a bit of a pass. Certainly it's not looked upon in the same way that a Mercedes or Porsche would be. It's seems to be viewed more as a tech/enviro car. What has happened, that I did not expect, is that people are desperate for a ride - customers, employees, everybody. It's almost a sales tool.

On the other side, there simply is no rational economic case for owning one of these things - especially the higher end ones. I would question the mathematical competence of anybody who tries to convince you otherwise. The car will be recycled long before it pays for itself. And I suspect (but have no evidence yet) that these cars are not going to age very well. Between battery degradation, the inevitable obsolescence of the in-car electronics, and the number of new systems in the car, I think we'll have very high depreciation and higher than anticipated maintenance costs.

That said... it's an amazing machine. It's like somebody fired up the flux capacitor and brought it back from 2030. It's like nothing else out there.

 

[gavine]

On the other side, there simply is no rational economic case for owning one of these things - especially the higher end ones. I would question the mathematical competence of anybody who tries to convince you otherwise. The car will be recycled long before it pays for itself. And I suspect (but have no evidence yet) that these cars are not going to age very well. Between battery degradation, the inevitable obsolescence of the in-car electronics, and the number of new systems in the car, I think we'll have very high depreciation and higher than anticipated maintenance costs.

I don't think anyone expects ANY car to "pay for itself", although, an electric car is the only one that has the potential to do so, depending on the cost of gasoline and how many miles you drive. With the OTA updates, the obsolescence of the electronics gets extended and I don't think high maintenance costs are in the cards, especially when compared to high mileage ICE cars.

 

[sandpiper]

I don't think anyone expects ANY car to "pay for itself", although, an electric car is the only one that has the potential to do so, depending on the cost of gasoline and how many miles you drive. With the OTA updates, the obsolescence of the electronics gets extended and I don't think high maintenance costs are in the cards, especially when compared to high mileage ICE cars.

The Tesla would have to be a lot cheaper for the fuel savings to be meaningful. Even if you assume 20 mpg and $5 per gallon of fuel, 100,000 miles of driving only uses $25,000 of gas.

I hope you're right on the obsolescence and maintenance. Only time will tell, but on low volume vehicles, parts tend to be very pricey. A lot depends on where Tesla goes as a company. If, in 5 years, they're successful and profitable then our odds are better. If, on the other hand, it goes the other way then we'll be searching through eBay for used parts out of salvage cars.

 

[willer]

A while back, somebody had done a detailed financial analysis of the Model S vs other cars including the Honda Odyssey. He found that as long as you keep your car for a 7-8 year timeframe, it's almost as cheap in terms of TCO as the Honda!
Between gas savings and higher resale value, the numbers *almost* support the emotional decision I already made to buy one. :tongue:
It's here: teslacost.com

 

[donv]

I agree completely on the fuel thing.

On the maintainability, I think the Model S will be pretty good. Even if Tesla went into bankruptcy tomorrow, they will have delivered around 70,000 Model Ss, and that's a lot of cars. You can still get parts for DeLoreans (I saw one driving down the road yesterday), and they made only about 9,000 of those, 30 years ago!

And, let's face it-- electronics have actually been pretty reliable. I'm old enough to remember people not wanting power windows because it was "one more thing to break." How often do you see even lousy old GM cars where the power windows don't work? Not very often. Solid state electronics tend to last a long time-- what fails are the connectors, and those can usually be repaired or replaced, even in low-volume cars. I had the dash for my 2000 Audi A6 rebuilt, for example-- it had a connector issue on the display.

The Tesla would have to be a lot cheaper for the fuel savings to be meaningful. Even if you assume 20 mpg and $5 per gallon of fuel, 100,000 miles of driving only uses $25,000 of gas.

I hope you're right on the obsolescence and maintenance. Only time will tell, but on low volume vehicles, parts tend to be very pricey. A lot depends on where Tesla goes as a company. If, in 5 years, they're successful and profitable then our odds are better. If, on the other hand, it goes the other way then we'll be searching through eBay for used parts out of salvage cars.

 

[EVBeast]

Also consider the fact that it doesn't need oil changes, no "tune-ups" and should go a million miles before anything needs to be replaced (other than windshield washer fluid and tires).

Avoiding trips to gas stations, jiffy lube, and the dealer means you have a lot more time on your schedule and less hassle in your life. My wife wanted to take my Model S because she said that her car was almost out of gas and she would have to stop to refuel before her morning appointment. "Your car is always full every morning".

It will change your life in some fantastically positive ways.

 

[sandpiper]

Also consider the fact that it doesn't need oil changes, no "tune-ups" and should go a million miles before anything needs to be replaced (other than windshield washer fluid and tires).

Avoiding trips to gas stations, jiffy lube, and the dealer means you have a lot more time on your schedule and less hassle in your life. My wife wanted to take my Model S because she said that her car was almost out of gas and she would have to stop to refuel before her morning appointment. "Your car is always full every morning".

It will change your life in some fantastically positive ways.

I'm going to be the devil's advocate for a bit here.

First, I think you're more than a bit optimistic when you say a million miles! I hope you're right... but I've been an engineer too long to believe that any generally new design will have that level of reliability. Yes, the ICE drive train is no longer there, but there are many other things that can still fail.... A/C pumps, compressors, battery cooling system, steering linkage and suspension components. And even the main drive gearmotors have been pretty common failure points. These will all improve as the company and design matures... but it's still pretty immature.

As to convenience... yes, depending on your mission. If you're doing long distance driving it's certainly not as good as an ICE. Five minutes at the gas station beats 45 mins at the SC any day. And unless you're in California or some other place that is polluted with superchargers, then you need to plan your travels much more carefully. You can't just hop in and hit the road. And in the deep winter, it can be FAR worse.

A lot of these issues go away with a battery that's 50%+ bigger. But we're not there yet.

ICE's are not what they once were either. Tuneups are generally limited to spark plugs nowadays. My last few vehicles have all gone 175K+ km before I traded them. I didn't baby them, and I'd had really no unscheduled maintenance on any of them.