The Cybertruck is more expensive to supercharge than a Ford F-150 costs in gas

[buckets0fun]

It's physics that a heavier EV with high torque will go through tires faster. People are mocking the Rivian for going through tires as quick as 6k miles, but again...physics.

Heavier EV?
Dodge charger weight model 3? Standard 3/4ton pickup truck weight CT? Tesla cars aren’t econoboxes, they’re on par with weights from other vehicles.

Rivian vehicles chew through tires because of the alignments and air suspension camber/toe curves. See conservative mode articles written vs silly forum posts.

Same goes for a lot of tesla vehicles, alignment problems or air suspension.

Your wishes for it to be something that it’s not are giggle inducing.

 

[buckets0fun]

Stunning how so very many are either stunningly ignorant basic science or just don't give a damn--is there any other option here?

Preach to the maritime shipping industry. One run of a bilge pump in a shipping vessel and you’ve put how much pollution into the sea?

“Save the planet”, until it’s brought to someone’s attention that farming veggies is so destructive come harvest time. Everything in front of those combines getting turned into mush. Monocrop farming.

Off gassing of the petroleum based interior within the tesla/rivian.

How many cow skins aren’t being used, destroying the ecosystem that livestock farmers built for their /whole/ cow.

I didn’t buy an EV for planet saving, bought for crash ratings and performance. Planet saving requires the recycling that isn’t put in place to deal with these vehicles post accident/end of life. Unlike ICE vehicles.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Heavier EV?
Dodge charger weight model 3? Standard 3/4ton pickup truck weight CT? Tesla cars aren’t econoboxes, they’re on par with weights from other vehicles.

Rivian vehicles chew through tires because of the alignments and air suspension camber/toe curves. See conservative mode articles written vs silly forum posts.

Same goes for a lot of tesla vehicles, alignment problems or air suspension.

Your wishes for it to be something that it’s not are giggle inducing.

You are picking larger vehicles skewing the numbers. The CT is a 1/2 ton pick up competitor that weighs what as much or more than a 3/4 ton with more speed than a raptor.

The M3 weighs almost 1k more than a Corolla or Civic, etc.

All EVs chew through tires. It's pretty well documented, even here where people are saying "drive slower and you can get 30-35k on tires". That's terrible mileage.

The Rivian, MY, MX/MS refresh appear to be worse than most. We'll see about the CT, but it also has to do with the speed rating on the tires as well. The higher speed rated tires are softer.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Preach to the maritime shipping industry. One run of a bilge pump in a shipping vessel and you’ve put how much pollution into the sea?

“Save the planet”, until it’s brought to someone’s attention that farming veggies is so destructive come harvest time. Everything in front of those combines getting turned into mush. Monocrop farming.

Off gassing of the petroleum based interior within the tesla/rivian.

How many cow skins aren’t being used, destroying the ecosystem that livestock farmers built for their /whole/ cow.

I didn’t buy an EV for planet saving, bought for crash ratings and performance. Planet saving requires the recycling that isn’t put in place to deal with these vehicles post accident/end of life. Unlike ICE vehicles.

It's best to just let this die. TSLA Pilot pollutes all sorts of threads with this crap.

 

[ucmndd]

Planet saving requires the recycling that isn’t put in place to deal with these vehicles post accident/end of life. Unlike ICE vehicles.

At the risk of going further off the rails… what makes you say that?

Nobody is throwing EV batteries in landfills. The industry is nascent but it’s already operational and proven at scale (see Redwood Materials et al). Battery minerals are almost infinitely recyclable, and the rest of the car can be dealt with just like any other ICE carcass.

 

[buckets0fun]

At the risk of going further off the rails… what makes you say that?

Nobody is throwing EV batteries in landfills. The industry is nascent but it’s already operational and proven at scale (see Redwood Materials et al). Battery minerals are almost infinitely recyclable, and the rest of the car can be dealt with just like any other ICE carcass.

My rant was directed at the wrecked RDV/EDVs that are sitting in one specific lot.

Aware of the conversion and ESS spaces, as well as redwood and others.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Preach to the maritime shipping industry. One run of a bilge pump in a shipping vessel and you’ve put how much pollution into the sea?

“Save the planet”, until it’s brought to someone’s attention that farming veggies is so destructive come harvest time. Everything in front of those combines getting turned into mush. Monocrop farming.

Off gassing of the petroleum based interior within the tesla/rivian.

How many cow skins aren’t being used, destroying the ecosystem that livestock farmers built for their /whole/ cow.

I didn’t buy an EV for planet saving, bought for crash ratings and performance. Planet saving requires the recycling that isn’t put in place to deal with these vehicles post accident/end of life. Unlike ICE vehicles.

It's really something to see how tangential people will become when faced with their own evil choices.

The reality is that some continue to make choices which place our planet's future in great peril. Sadly, the "some" is measured in the billions which is why those with some intelligence and knowledge MUST act--if we don't, just who do you think will?

What is so odd is that there's a March of the Morons taking place, and some here on TMC are in the front line.

Scary, very scary, for our destiny.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

It's best to just let this die. TSLA Pilot pollutes all sorts of threads with this crap.

Yes, it is true.

I want to leave a usable planet for others, and for some, that's a lot of "crap."

Just pathetic. It really should just all be about whatever people want, and want now. What future generations are left with--that's their damn problem! /s

 

[David99]

These apples to oranges charts will never go away <sigh>

You can't compare EPA rated fuel consumption and real world 70 mph driving. There is no way the F150 gets 23 mpg at 70 mph real world freeway driving. Let alone that the smaller EcoBoost isn't anywhere near the performance of the CT. They left out oil changes and other ICE specific maintenance. Energy prices, again, apple and oranges. If you are using Texas gas prices, then also compare that to Texas energy prices. Tesla offers a $25 flat rate home charging plan. You charge your CT (or other EV) as much as you want for $25 a month. If you are using California Supercharger prices, then also compare to California gas prices.

I can't help but believe this chart was done this way on purpose.

 

[coleAK]

I recently watched a range test on YouTube where a Cybertruck was driven at 70mph at a steady state under decent weather conditions until it could not drive. The truck got around 254 miles of range and consumed around 500 wh/mile, approximately.

Here's what that would cost per 100 miles at current supercharger rates across the US:

	$0.35/kWh​	$0.40/kWh​	$0.45/kWh​
Cybertruck (500wh/mile)	$17.50/100 miles​	$20.00/100 miles​	$22.50/100 miles​

Here's what a Ford F-150 would cost per 100 miles at current gas prices across the US:

	$2.50/gallon​	$3.50/gallon​	$4.50/gallon​
3.5L EcoBoost (24mpg)	$10.42/100 miles​	$14.58/100 miles​	$18.75/100 miles​
5.0L (18mpg)	$13.89/100 miles​	$19.44/100 miles​	$25.00/100 miles​

At these prices, the F-150 ends up being cheaper to drive under most conditions while also being quicker to fuel up and unrestricted by charging station locations. Here is a MPG equivalency chart at cost basis:

	$0.35/kWh​	$0.40/kWh​	$0.45/kWh​
$2.50/gallon	14 mpg​	13 mpg​	11 mpg​
$3.50/gallon	20 mpg​	18 mpg​	16 mpg​
$4.50/gallon	26 mpg​	23 mpg​	20 mpg​

If comparing against the EcoBoost 3.5L, there's only one scenario where the Cybertruck comes out ahead (and just barely): $4.50/gallon gas and $0.35/kWh supercharger rates.

Now this is a very simplified analysis and doesn't take into account the following:

• Purchase price and depreciation.
• Home charging.
• "Fun to drive" and acceleration.
• Cold weather effects on charging and efficiency.
• Maintenance costs and time lost to oil changes, etc...
• The social costs to CO2 emissions and air pollution.

Otherwise, let me know if I am missing something obvious in the analysis above.

Superchargers are $0.59 per kWh around where I live. I just got back from our place on Oahu, level 2 charging there is $0.60 per kWh.

 

[coleAK]

Yes, of course.

Who would spend even one damn dime to leave a usable planet for future generations.

Where are your priorities?!?

Some people are just stupid I guess . . . the ONLY thing that matters is how much money is in your bank account when you kick the bucket.

Jeesh.

If you are this passionate about the environment. Should never buy a truck of any kind. Want to walk the talk, switch over to bike commuting.

 

[Earl]

gas9

Superchargers are $0.59 per kWh around where I live. I just got back from our place on Oahu, level 2 charging there is $0.60 per kWh.

gasoline price is probably a lot higher on Oahu as well.

 

[coleAK]

gas9

gasoline price is probably a lot higher on Oahu as well.

It was $4.59 a gallon. Similar to what I pay in Alaska. Pretty much the same as it was in CA when I was there ~2 months ago.

 

[Skotty]

Eh.

Tires wear much quicker on an EV...those cost a lot more than oil changes, fluids, etc.

The time saving of not worrying about those issues is really nice.

This is only true if you drive it like you stole it. I assure you, the tires on my V8 Mustangs wore out a lot faster than the ones on my Teslas. But I don't drive like a used to.

 

[buckets0fun]

If you are this passionate about the environment. Should never buy a truck of any kind. Want to walk the talk, switch over to bike commuting.

Grow your own food. Make your own clothing. Never buy anything that ever touched petroleum. Keep away from seed oils. Meet your local butcher and rancher. Never own another car. Stop buying fancy computer devices. Never pay for or use trash service since you make zero waste. Blahblahblah.

It’s always someone that wants to take the “zomg I’m saving the planet because these other ‘morons’ are causing the problem. And I’m SMRTR than everyone else so I can fix it and make them fix it too, because internet!”

Oh tsla pilot. Your entertaining stance on how the world could be magically fixed is awesome, keep smoking what you’re smoking.

 

[Skotty]

Grow your own food. Make your own clothing. Never buy anything that ever touched petroleum. Keep away from seed oils. Meet your local butcher and rancher. Never own another car. Stop buying fancy computer devices. Never pay for or use trash service since you make zero waste. Blahblahblah.

It’s always someone that wants to take the “zomg I’m saving the planet because these other ‘morons’ are causing the problem. And I’m SMRTR than everyone else so I can fix it and make them fix it too, because internet!”

Oh tsla pilot. Your entertaining stance on how the world could be magically fixed is awesome, keep smoking what you’re smoking.

These types of responses are just as garbage as TSLA Pilots snippy response. It's reasonable to think that we can live good lives while also addressing problems our activities are causing. Living like a hermit is not a solution. A solution would be a solution. And that's not to say there are not other problems. It is possible to have debates about what problem priority should be, so there is room for discussion there.

 

[buckets0fun]

while also addressing problems our activities are causing.

If you believe that your and my activities are causing any measurable amount of damage/change, I would love some of what you’re smoking.

How many coal fired electrical plants in China?
How many vessels are pumping their bilge into the sea?
We can sit and go around and around, but the talking points are boring.

Being self sustainable isn’t hermit. Amish? Maybe. There are options to live what is being preached, not wanting to do it doesn’t make anyone better(or worse) than anyone else.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

If you believe that your and my activities are causing any measurable amount of damage/change, I would love some of what you’re smoking.

How many coal fired electrical plants in China?
How many vessels are pumping their bilge into the sea?
We can sit and go around and around, but the talking points are boring.

Being self sustainable isn’t hermit. Amish? Maybe. There are options to live what is being preached, not wanting to do it doesn’t make anyone better(or worse) than anyone else.

Actually, BoF, choices DO matter.

For most of us here adopted EV’s to reduce our GHG emissions. for many of us early adopters it was very expensive—more expensive than just buying a GHG-dumping ICE vehicle.

But we did it because leaving a usable planet for future generations is arguably the most import legacy we can leave them.

Yet this thread’s title suggests that it’s just not worth spending the few extra dollars it MIGHT cost (but really doesn’t when all costs are considered), which should boggle the mind . . . .

 

[zoomer0056]

Drive in CA or NY, gas is way more expensive!

 

[Earl]

At least I can fuel my EV with energy I harvest myself most of the time, even if Supercharging it may be more expensive. I can never, and never will, be able to fuel my gas or diesel truck with anything other than that which I must buy from folks, most of whom, hate us.