Tesla uses 1/6 the energy compared to gasoline

[jjrandorin]

I'm no evangelist, but I find that people often start a conversation because they want to be informed, and I try to oblige.

Those that want to tell me all the ways in which I am wrong are free to do so at length, as I drive away.

If someone asks me actual questions (not "leading" ones) I am happy to tell them to pros and cons of my car. if someone asks "How far can you actually go on a charge?" or " is it true that you have less maintenance?" or "what was the buying experience like?" I have no problem engaging in a discussion with my actual experiences.

If someone, however, asks something like "How do you go on a road trip? I drive 6 hours at a time when i go on a road trip and that isnt possible with an EV" or starts in on ANY topic around "the environment and the real cost of EVs" I am in no way shape or form interested in that discussion (here or elsewhere, actually).

So, in that case, I answer briefly and disengage from the conversation.

 

[tiberia.sun@gm]

Factor in electric generation efficiency...

 

[SageBrush]

If I recall the best Turbines are like 70% efficient.

I've read that kind of efficiency for combined power & heating.

The EIA has fleet average data that I think is more useful. Coal sits at 1/3, just as it has for a long time.
NG is more along the lines of 45% overall. I do not remember if the EIA has categories for peaker Vs non peaker

However, the improved (and improving) NG plant efficiency is ONE HUGE RED HERRING because upstream methane emissions are ignored by the counters with an agenda.

 

[Tha_Ape]

climate change is not correct term anymore.
It should be "Dying Earth"

Earth isn't dying... we are. once we're gone the earth will recover quickly. life will continue... just maybe not the large mammals

 

[beemerphile]

Patiently waiting for the electric tanks here…

They will be even cooler with Gaussian linear magnetic accelerator powered cannons that use no gunpowder. The Tankers won't need hearing protection and won't have to endure the spent gases in the turrets. It will be a future where we can kill enemy combatants (or in the case of Russia, innocent children) in an environmentally responsible manner. Of course, some idiot throws one nuke and it's all done.

 

[CyberGus]

If someone asks me actual questions (not "leading" ones) I am happy to tell them to pros and cons of my car. if someone asks "How far can you actually go on a charge?" or " is it true that you have less maintenance?" or "what was the buying experience like?" I have no problem engaging in a discussion with my actual experiences.

If someone, however, asks something like "How do you go on a road trip? I drive 6 hours at a time when i go on a road trip and that isnt possible with an EV" or starts in on ANY topic around "the environment and the real cost of EVs" I am in no way shape or form interested in that discussion (here or elsewhere, actually).

So, in that case, I answer briefly and disengage from the conversation.

In-person trolls are easily identified, and are to be avoided.

 

[GringoViejo]

FYI, Lexus RX is not the same class as MY.
RAV4, CRV, CX-5 are the same compact suv/cuv which get around 27 city, 35 highway

I don't agree completely, having driven a RAV4 for years before getting my MY (and a Lexus RX350 before that). A better comparison, IMO, would have compared the RX350 AND RX400h to the MY.

FWIW, I like the MY much better than any of the above but wish it were smaller, especially a bit narrower, than it is, for navigating pylons in parking garages, etc. I also have a Model 3 (LR+) which, for some reason, always seems more fun to drive than the MY (dual motor). Go figure.

 

[nate704]

I don't agree completely, having driven a RAV4 for years before getting my MY (and a Lexus RX350 before that). A better comparison, IMO, would have compared the RX350 AND RX400h to the MY.

FWIW, I like the MY much better than any of the above but wish it were smaller, especially a bit narrower, than it is, for navigating pylons in parking garages, etc. I also have a Model 3 (LR+) which, for some reason, always seems more fun to drive than the MY (dual motor). Go figure.

Sorry to break the news to you, but they are not the correct comparison.
Size, MPG, price point, classification, etc say they are not.
Lexus NX is the one that you need to compare with MY.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I've read that kind of efficiency for combined power & heating.

The EIA has fleet average data that I think is more useful. Coal sits at 1/3, just as it has for a long time.
NG is more along the lines of 45% overall. I do not remember if the EIA has categories for peaker Vs non peaker

However, the improved (and improving) NG plant efficiency is ONE HUGE RED HERRING because upstream methane emissions are ignored by the counters with an agenda.

EIA says 2020 NG heat rate was 7732 which is about 44.1%

 

[ranss12]

The fuels that got into turbines have to be refined too. So start at the same point.

Refined fossil fuel into turbine and refined fossil fuel into gas tank. Then compare.

If I recall the best Turbines are like 70% efficient. And ICE pushing 40%. Toyota now claiming 50% with a new engine. So there is no way Electric backed by Fossil is 6x more efficient. Even if Turbine was 100% efficient that’s not possible. Then a lot of losses to get it into your battery. And in winter excess heat is used on ICE but watts used on EV.

I think the best comparison of emissions between ICE and BEV comes from the Union of Concerned Scientists. They look how clean the grid is in different parts of the country and compare the resulting emissions between ICE and BEV in those areas. Where the grid is dirty, an ICE might only need to get 40 mpg to be as clean a BEV. Where the grid is the cleanest, an ICE might need to get 230 mpg to be as clean as an EV. Here's a chart from 2018:

The grid is considerably cleaner now than it was in 2018, so BEVs compare even better now

 

[nate704]

It is good that we are getting better, but the rest of the world, especially China, Russia, and others cancel out the positive effect or even make it worse.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D28zcKjWwAAYfG9?format=jpg&name=large

 

[Sunvalleylaw]

It is good that we are getting better, but the rest of the world, especially China, Russia, and others cancel out the positive effect or even make it worse.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D28zcKjWwAAYfG9?format=jpg&name=large

Maybe, but so what? We should not take the lead and try in any way we can, because of China and Russia?

 

[damonbrodie]

Maybe, but so what? We should not take the lead and try in any way we can, because of China and Russia?

Indeed.

Even if EVs charge from electricity generated by fossil fuels it is better than if those cars were ICE (from an emissions perspective). The really good news happens when the coal power plant gets replaced with solar/wind/nuclear and then the whole fleet of those same EVs gets a "free" emissions improvement. China is expected to flatten and start to reduce their coal usage over time (though it will be slow).

 

[Bp25]

EVs and ICEs, they all pollute and killing the planet. Let's just walk.

Walking (or riding a horse) will be worse than any of the other mechanical alternatives from efficiency and pollution point of view

 

[bpon89]

Yea, I always go off 40mpg... takes that argument off the table. I say 40mpg and gas is $3/gal. Tilt everything in the gas cars favor and the Tesla STILL comes out way ahead.

40mpg and $3/gal is $0.08/mi
300Wh/mi and $0.12/kWh (by me) is $0.04/mi

In reality, I get ~240Wh/mi on average and sometimes charge for free.

For me, electricity in reality is approx. 1/3 of gas and I used to have an RX350.

 

[andaconda]

Walking (or riding a horse) will be worse than any of the other mechanical alternatives from efficiency and pollution point of view

 

[kelpcar]

Sorry to break the news to you, but they are not the correct comparison.
Size, MPG, price point, classification, etc say they are not.
Lexus NX is the one that you need to compare with MY.

NX has 46.9 ft of cargo space with the rear seats folded. MY is 76.2. Even the RX only has 58.5.

This isn't the only measure (neither compare on performance as well), but it's ridiculous to pay more for the plugin NX than for the Y, but that was the pricing I saw early this year.

 

[RidgeRunner]

If someone asks me actual questions (not "leading" ones) I am happy to tell them to pros and cons of my car. if someone asks "How far can you actually go on a charge?" or " is it true that you have less maintenance?" or "what was the buying experience like?" I have no problem engaging in a discussion with my actual experiences.

If someone, however, asks something like "How do you go on a road trip? I drive 6 hours at a time when i go on a road trip and that isnt possible with an EV" or starts in on ANY topic around "the environment and the real cost of EVs" I am in no way shape or form interested in that discussion (here or elsewhere, actually).

So, in that case, I answer briefly and disengage from the conversation.

I like "briefly disengage from the conversation".

 

[Silicon Desert]

No one has taken into account the source of the electricity either -- some places use more fossil fuels to produce it than others. Does your electricity come from coal, hydro, nuclear, or something else? Generally EV's are more efficient at using power, but that power still comes from somewhere.

right. My charging is 100% clean. Well, except that I constantly have to clean poop out of the cage and feed that little critter.

 

[Whtrbt7]

If only Plutonium 239 was cheaper, it would have been a pretty clean source of energy from fission. It would be able to power the home as well as the vehicle. Teslas are pretty efficient when it comes to energy usage so it’s a good cost savings. Recycling Lithium also can be pretty effective but I don’t think we do enough of it now. Overall I’m less concerned with environment than with cheap energy production.