Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[jerry33]

What the heck is with these 'elegant pull away' types! Does anyone not know how to modulate an accelerator pedal anymore?! It's easier in a Tesla than it is in an ICE car because the behavior is so smooth and linear. Made up BS like this, just to negate a Tesla advantage, burns my buns.

The detractors have hardly any ammunition left so they have to say something. Tesla's not going away anytime soon; there's no fires anymore; the only demand issue is lack of production; the SEC is no longer a problem; claims of fraud and similar are discounted by everyone because no company can build multiple factories without a solid track record, resale value is better than most, etc.

 

[jerry33]

Hmm...but even if someone puts in a sell order by mistake @$1,000, wouldn't it fill / sell at a higher price because of all the buy orders above it that would be at say $1600, or $1500 first ?

I believe it depends on the broker and which of the systems provided by the broker is being used. There are some one-click-wonders that don't give you a chance and that will just sell/buy at the price you put in. The more traditional multi-click ones make you go through a couple of checks before placing the order.

 

[Causalien]

Listening to these kinds of bears changing their story seems to indicate to me they are expecting a rather large equity raise (10% in this case). In order for it to make sense, these bears who's institution want in on the action have to change their story so the price they will be buying at makes sense. If they don't change their story the investors they have will ask WHY shares of TSLA are in their portfolio if Tesla is such a horrible buy. Most people rely on their broker's advice. They are not like us and following things.

Does that mean there will be a large second offering for the SP500 inclusion? I really don't know but an offering sure is getting hinted at. Think back at how many times Elon would say "No second offering" at the ER and then poof... second offering. I think what it comes down to is when large institutions come to Elon and say, "Hey dude we would really like to throw large sums of money at you!", Elon looks at what he can do with that money and accepts it. The question now is if Elon doesn't see anything MORE they can do... is Tesla at max growth rate?

There's one thing they can do with 30 bil. Buy spacex.

 

[StealthP3D]

The arrival of the first drill at Texas worksite augers well for rapid construction.

Let's hope they don't strike oil, you know, "black gold", 'cause that could really slow down the amount of revenue this site could produce!

 

[Nocturnal]

The detractors have hardly any ammunition left so they have to say something. Tesla's not going away anytime soon; there's no fires anymore; the only demand issue is lack of production; the SEC is no longer a problem; claims of fraud and similar are discounted by everyone because no company can build multiple factories without a solid track record, resale value is better than most, etc.

It's not a coincidence that "omg panel gaps" has taken over again. Even in the Cybertruck potential buyer groups. I'm so tired of hearing "teslas have quality problems" because they don't understand that 5 Youtube videos isn't a good sample set.

There's one thing they can do with 30 bil. Buy spacex.

Please stop because I can only get so...

 

[Singuy]

The production quality of this is amazing. Someone needs to stop cutting those onions.

 

[Criscmt]

Subject: LEAPs: Are you taking insurance and/or making income through diagonal spreads?

SP & Date combination you are inclined to act on those LEAPs?

• It likely is the case that there's a share price, at a given date where you are willing to part with your LEAPs.
• This could be converting your LEAPs into shares.
• That can be done by writing a call at a little higher strike price for the same expiry, or perhaps by exercising the LEAPs, or outright selling the LEAPs.

Making a play on such thresholds?

• Are you guys using such price and time points to make some money, or you can see that as buying some insurance, by selling calls at such strike and dates? A relatively much more near dated LEAPs with much higher strikes than the principal LEAPs are good candidates to sell.
• Might not be a lot of money, but can be relatively significant when the stock goes down.
• And given LEAPs are relatively longer term, there almost always will be times when the stock goes down non-insignificantly. In such cases, it's the near dated calls with higher strikes that drop much more than the actual LEAPs you are holding.

@FrankSG IIRC as a reply to the price where each of us would like to part with the shares, you said that if SP reaches $2500 within a few weeks from now, you would be converting the LEAPs to shares. Have you been selling diagonal calls accordingly, or considered those? Perhaps Sep-18: $2500, or Jan-2021 $3500 C, just to give some examples.

@Lycanthrope ?

 

[RobStark]

What the heck is with these 'elegant pull away' types?! Does anyone not know how to modulate an accelerator pedal anymore?! It's easier in a Tesla than it is in an ICE car because the behavior is so smooth and linear. Made up BS like this, just to negate a Tesla advantage, burns my buns.

He is not comparing Tesla to an ICE car but another BEV.

 

[Todd Burch]

Sometimes you just have to take one for the team....would we be sitting around watching and giggling like middle school boys/girls? we will never know

If you play your cards right...

 

[Sudre]

There's one thing they can do with 30 bil. Buy spacex.

Yah but then Elon and board would get sued because some small group of morons would sell and the price would go up 10x what they could have made if they were not so stupid.... or what I am trying to say is I do not understand the Solar City merger lawsuit at all.

(WARNING RANT)
I still can't understand how the Solar City / Tesla case just doesn't/didn't get dismissed.

Plaintiff, "Hi your honor. Yah... uhhmm. So.... we feel we should have made more than 10x on our TSLA + SCTY and the reason we didn't is because Tesla bought SCTY. OK sure.... Technically we would be making more than 10x right now but we were STUPID and sold when the SP was low from people shorting the stock. We feel Elon and board should pay us for our stupidity."

The only other argument they have besides the above is, "We feel 10x return is not enough. All companies do better than that over 5 years."... except that one would get dismissed right away.

In reality since I am reading the settlement now I see...
Who?
Arkansas Teachers Retirement (probably UNION)
Roofers local 149 (UNION)
Oklahoma Firefighters Pension... (UNION)
I bet if you dig into all the plaintiffs unions will be in every one of them. I find it disgusting because I am a union member and this is embarrassing for all union members to have to dig up money this way.

I'll just stop the rant there... move along with your weekend.

 

[S3XY]

yes wasn’t that in coincidence with the filing of 4.5m shares long held by citadel ??

i get it, but doesn’t explain the theory of naked shorts that aren’t known by anyone but the short, with no long on the other side expecting the shares to settle

to all, i don’t doubt manipulation. i just doubt speculation. i’d like if we can figure out how they are doing it, what loopholes are used, and how it’s booked.

Somebody needs to get Cramer on one of those webcasts that nobody watches.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

If you play your cards right...

FOLD

 

[PeterJA]

...So, basically Polestar is more enjoyable because it’s slower, and the author doesn’t know Tesla has chill mode.

The author does know about Chill mode, because he says: "The Model 3 is very quick, but it’s too fast to some, even in standard modes."

So he knows Model 3 has more than one acceleration mode. His article is a hit piece by a scumbag, but it won't stop Tesla from crushing all competition.

 

[Singuy]

The author does know about Chill mode, because he says: "The Model 3 is very quick, but it’s too fast to some, even in standard modes."

So he knows Model 3 has more than one acceleration mode. His article is a hit piece by a scumbag, but it won't stop Tesla from crushing all competition.

I don't see it as a hit piece. It's good to find the author enjoying polarstar more than the Model 3. This is a subjective based opinion..enjoyment. So I'm not going to ding the guy for liking it more. He starts out writing how he recommends it over the Model 3, but then can't recommend it because it's a uphill battle vs the Tesla ecosystem. Welcome to your hell all of you start up auto makers;-)

 

[PeterJA]

I don't see it as a hit piece. It's good to find the author enjoying polarstar more than the Model 3. This is a subjective based opinion..enjoyment. So I'm not going to ding the guy for liking it more. He starts out writing how he recommends it over the Model 3, but then can't recommend it because it's a uphill battle vs the Tesla ecosystem. Welcome to your hell all of you start up auto makers;-)

I'm not dinging him for liking Polestar more. I'm dinging him for pretending Chill mode doesn't exist, when he knows damn well it does. Ding ding, scumbag (him, not you).

 

[MC3OZ]

This article is also quite insightful. Lots of good stuff in there:

How phantom shares on Wall Street threaten U.S. companies and investors

I'm actually not so sure anymore that @Artful Dodger is right. It sounds like a naked short sale is more like a futures contract. A purchase is agreed upon, but the actual delivery of the stock doesn't have to happen until settlement date. Thus, a person naked short TSLA never actually delivers a share in the first place, because it does not have a share to deliver. Thus, either the transaction fails at some point, or the short seller buys/borrows the share and delivers it.

Although after the stock split the naked short seller would have to deliver 5 shares, a run up in the stock price aside, it sounds like he could just arrange to buy/borrow 5 shares cheaper after the stock split, and deliver the 5 shares. It doesn't appear to be the case that a naked short seller will owe 1 share @ $1,500 and then another 4 shares @ $300 for a $2,700 debt total.

I'm now wondering if the process of establishing share owners on the 24th has the potential to "bell the cat" on naked short selling.

If Tesla has any official communication with "owners of record", or if "owners of record" have any way of checking the record, that potential exists.

To avoid errors and ensure a tidy process, some way of confirming the record is true and correct would not be a surprise.

Now consider 2 scenarios:-

1) Owner A has a share which is loaned to a short seller and sold to owner B. IMO owner B is the "owner of record"

2) Owner C buys a share which is a naked short and subject to fail to deliver - there is no "owner of record" but owner C thinks they are an "owner of record".

This all hinges on some ability for owner C to check the record on the 24th.

If this scenario exists, MM want to unwind all naked sorts before the 24th, or embarrassing questions might be asked, and lawsuits may even follow.

The cost common use of Naked Shorts by MM would be to manipulate the market on options expiry normally the would want to unwind that position in the next few days to reload before the next options expiry. But if the Tesla share price remains high, MM being stuck with more Naked Shorts on the books than they would ideally like, is possible.

All along I've had hunch Dodger is right, and the market action seems to be confirming it, if my assumption about owner C being able to check the record is correct, this is a plausible explanation..

 

[smorgasbord]

Those of you with high price GTC sell orders to stop the shares from being lent out:

1) What price did you choose? LIkes $5,000? More/less?
2) ETrade doesn't do forever GTC. 30 or 90 days are default, but I can set something a year or more out. Thoughts?
3) Is this really worth the bother?

TIA!

 

[UkNorthampton]

'Vauxhall Britain's Corsa E' doing great as a Tesla advert proxy on UK TV tonight. Just before Film 4's 'Pride and Prejudice and Zombies'. Presumably ICE is the Zombie or maybe oil & car companies.

 

[FrankSG]

How does that work? (Selling call lowering the stock)
A person has an in the money call, three options:

1. Sell it and gain SP/strike difference plus time value
2. Execute it and gain SP/strike difference.
3. Hold till close.

1 and 3 don't impact SP. 2 only does if they then sell the stock, but if they were going to do that then 1 is more profitable.

#1 allows market makers to reduce their delta hedge share inventory -> sell shares -> downwards pressure on stock.

 

[traxila]

There's one thing they can do with 30 bil. Buy spacex.

SpaceX floating equity at 44 billion for latest round.