Phobi
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oops…was thinking it was TMC and automatically looked to add a “funny” emoticon on the Hyundai post on Twitter 
Looking forward to the ring of the bell
Looking forward to the ring of the bell
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
I recall that in a really good podcast interview last year Elon mentioned the enormous amount of profits made by established auto manufactures that come from the vast majority of its user base driving out of warranty cars and how that benefit was still to come for Tesla (as almost all of Tesla’s user base was/is still driving cars under warranty). It was said in a manner implying that Tesla will also enjoy that highly profitable revenue stream as well when the out of warranty fleet starts increasing by the millions each year (which I guess really starts adding up around mid decade).
Dyson’s $700 million quest to design an electric car
"Because we were new kids on the automotive block, suppliers charged us more, which meant the bill for the parts would be as much as 25% higher than those sold to existing manufacturers, making the car expensive to produce. And, as we were planning to sell it direct rather than through dealers, we would need storage facilities and financing deals in every country we sold in. On top of this was the obvious fact that the fewer cars you make, the higher the cost per car. At a relatively low volume, we would have to sell the car at $210,000. There are not many people who will buy a car at this price."More at: Outline - Read & annotate without distractions
Hmmm, I'm thinking about Lucid, Rivian and other EV start up
I must have missed that. maybe because I had high hopes for Tesla.
I hear~ that Tesla should never make money on service as there should be no service.
My voice here: Adding first principle thinking.
If you make money on service you are motivated to make cars that require service. Bad cars.
I guess, Yes, Eventually Tesla will be run like legacy auto.
Need to watch for that, as I don’t intentionally own stock in legacy auto.
I disagree, Elon has always said that the best service is no service necessary and that's the goal
But of course it's the case that the vast majority of Teslas are still under warranty, so any costs are covered by Tesla. Just because that costs shifts to the owners doesn't mean that Tesla are going to start taking advantage of it
Agreed - we shouldn't focus on service revenue but design a good car - but there is no maintenance free car possible.
I can't stand this "EVs need no service" - every thing on wheels needs suspension components that have bearings and dampening components that wear out naturally.
Or the "first principle view" on it:
There is no such thing as meintenance free anything on earth - time == entropy - and we need to constantly fight entropy - especially on any moving parts.
So imho Tesla used the "no maintenance checks needed for warranty" as a marketing plot - but it makes no sense going forward to not tell your customers when to maintain which part on the car as any other manufacturer - Tesla should (does) know when aprox. components wear out and should at least inspected (i.e. bearings, dampers and such) and replaced (i.e. break fluid every 2 years).
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I did not mean to say, or imply that, EVs need no service, or that they would be maintenance free.
I meant to say, "Service should not be a profit center."
Once service becomes a profit center, the company works in opposition to the customer. (In that that part of the company wants service to happen and the customer does not). So the first principle is to not set up incentives to use the residual value of the car to extort money out of the customer by charging as much as the market will bear. Short term financial results always suggest raising prices on captive customers.
Good idea. Technically, you could set up a wiki thread - one post at the top can be edited indefinitely, that is where you could put a list of FUD topics and corresponding articles and debunks. Below there would be discussion what to include/submissions. You need someone or a team to filter submissions and edit the wiki on a regular basis. Works well with our Europe registrations stats wiki (link in my footer). This might also take some repetitive discussion away from here ("can someone repost, can´t find the article any more..").
This philosophy guarantees poor service. Service is a vital part of any well run company and has a large role to play with delighting customers. Great service requires forward planning, logistics, training, documentation, engineering and quality system compliance. The better run service organizations are typically profit centers with resources to invest as the company and customer needs grow. 20% margin is a nice goal that supports the needs of the department but very hard to do.
This is OT so I won’t comment further. There are lots of paths toward great service but running service as a cost center nearly guarantees failure IMO.
Yeah - I realized that and edited my post afterwards. Agreed
The better the service the better the whole experience - customers buy used cars, insurances need values for repair costs etc ... Tesla is more expensive to insure than the competition (ev or not) at least in germany - that should change imho.
out-of-warranty repairs are quite expensive.. 160€/h here. And parts are not cheap.
S85 Battery replacement is 15k€ for a refurb battery..
In the entire parts and service discussion there was not a single comment about collision repair. Sale of those parts is often the most lucrative (I.e. high margin) categories for OEM’s. Tesla is certainly doing well in this category, partly because there is no easy non-Tesla source.
That is a more rapidly growing business than is car sales simply because it applies to the entire active fleet. The original Roadster already has limited part supplies. For the decade-old Midel S fleet there are usually retrofit, update and replacement parts available. There is negligible induction that such supplies are lower margin than of newer ones.
We need to be cautious about applying other OEM practice to Tesla, but parts supply is probably not one of those areas. FWIW, almost none disclose the profit contribution of parts sales. Large dealer groups sometimes do disclose that, which is invariably higher than new car sales. When service is included it is often a larger part than is parts, and Tesla is different in service, not not for parts.
Finally OEM’s offer parts for either the required period (varies widely between legal jurisdictions) or until doing so ceases to be profitable. As a result a handful of OEM’s continue supplying parts for even ancient classic cars. Some, such as Jaguar, even sell restored old vehicles converted to BEV.
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I don't see how Tesla's future is off topic, as without customers there is no future.
Agree that cost centers destroy motivation.
The role of service at Tesla is today is not as a profit center, but as a Net Promotor Score referral driver. I have trouble seeing why more people buying Tesla's is bad for Tesla stock.
My experience with Mobile Service in particular has been great! 10.
Shared success is better than profit centers. All these profit centers create division.
NPS helps motivate shared success.
OEMs typically rely on Tier 1s for much of their vehicle content (Tesla less so). Those contracts cover parts availability and pricing, including warranty/ service units. The OEMs add a mark up on parts sales to/through their dealers or OEM original channels.
I was exposed to the problem of the supplier needing to guess the total number of replacement modules an out of production model would ever need so they could shut down the bespoke manufacturing line permanently and move the rest of the factory out of the country (verus tear down/ move/ reinstall that line).
Normally, needed equipment for production is kept for the duration of the support timeframe, even though it is only run in batches as needed.
Ford Mach-E owners manual and warranty for Canada illustrate legacy makers intend on the same profit center for their EVs.
The reason is because EVs made by legacy automakers still use many of the same material and parts they use for ICE vehicles. E.g. As Sandy Munro pointed out, the industry standard vulcanized black rubber hoses and the clamp design in the Mach-E’s are prone to leakage with age, unlike Tesla Model Y nylon hoses and clamps of the type used for jet aircrafts which are lighter and are maintenance free.
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DragonWatch
Small FootPrint
Forward Observing
I hope JFK does not mind. Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for healing the earth.
Good movement/read in Britain ~ the “Gray greens.”. Another crack in the fossil fuel cool aid jug.
The quickest, easiest thing to do is buy an EV ~ preferably a Tesla
I hope JFK does not mind. Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for healing the earth.
Good movement/read in Britain ~ the “Gray greens.”. Another crack in the fossil fuel cool aid jug.
The quickest, easiest thing to do is buy an EV ~ preferably a Tesla
I dunno, while the profit motive probably affects legacy auto service recommendations, the actual maintenance requirements of their cars suggest to me owners are on very thin ice if they don’t follow a maintenance schedule pretty close to what’s recommended.
DragonWatch
Small FootPrint
Forward Observing
Excited Note: If it’s Monday, it must be Olympia (WA). We were almost home when a M3 pulled along side of me. It had an after market spoiler, confusing us old folks (3 or Y). I was now being held back by a slow moving fossil fuel car. The opportunity rose, so I passed him to get a better look at the modified 3. Then I saw it, a MY; just then my wife/pointed out an on coming M3 ~ just as we were getting excited, a blue Model X passed us. If only they could read my front license plate frame ~ TESLA. The last time I was this excited about Tesla’s in the wild was while driving thru Portland a couple years back.
i might put a hand written note on the back window of my truck canopy that reads, “CybertTruck Want-2-B”
Excited Note: If it’s Monday, it must be Olympia (WA). We were almost home when a M3 pulled along side of me. It had an after market spoiler, confusing us old folks (3 or Y). I was now being held back by a slow moving fossil fuel car. The opportunity rose, so I passed him to get a better look at the modified 3. Then I saw it, a MY; just then my wife/pointed out an on coming M3 ~ just as we were getting excited, a blue Model X passed us. If only they could read my front license plate frame ~ TESLA. The last time I was this excited about Tesla’s in the wild was while driving thru Portland a couple years back.
i might put a hand written note on the back window of my truck canopy that reads, “CybertTruck Want-2-B”
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