Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
It was a warning shot fired at the shortzes and hedgies.

Just like a fine Australian table wine, the message is: "Be ware".

EDIT: and dey still shortin' A/Hrs (already 1.112M shares traded by 5:00 pm)
Can you say zig-zag? Jebus, it's not even EARNINGS Day! :p

View attachment 666968

Shortzes never quit. They have to be crushed and thrown from the train.

Cheers to the Longs!
Like this.
tenor (8).gif
 
Your points are valid only for people who do not do due diligence on investments, that's most investors.
Specifically your points are a trifle off. GMAC was profitable when spun off except for the disastrous foray into the subprime mortgage business. Most of GE Capital was profitable, but they too took bad moves into high risk low return derivatives. Anyone who was doing due diligence could have sold when those moves were made, since they were public information. However, in both cases the general attitude of securities analysts pretty much ignored the financial risks while lauding pickups, industrial turbines and turbojet engines among other things.
this is exactly my point Tesla has not made any of these types of bad moves yet ... you are clearly reading a lot into my post ... and assuming a lot about what HW i have done .....but your response is very informative
By the way, banks are one thing. What do you mean by "credit agencies"?

As for "black swan events" the premise is that such events are random, rare and inherently unpredictable in the specific. Such a description is not characteristic of the 'great mortgage meltdown', nor of most major corporate failures.

Regarding Tesla: They now originate auto insurance products in several jurisdictions. They own and control leasing businesses in several products lines and have securitized lease packages regularly offered. Further, in most energy products Tesla offers numerous varieties of service contracts, extended warranties and financing options.

To date Tesla has been both innovative and conservative in financial products. They are just beginning to reach critical mass to justify increasingly innovative options.

Another variant on financial services is energy wholesale distribution and grid services, in which Tesla is already licensed in the EU, UK and several other major markets.

Finally, Tesla is deeply involved in global finance including many currencies including cryptocurrencies. We do not read too much about those topics (except Bitcoin, of course) precisely because Tesla is adept at handling these risks without much drama. That is clear evidence of serious competence.

In short, uncontrolled risk causes inevitable losses, usually preceded with ignorant euphoria.
In your post you seem to be unaware of Tesla's financing activities. If you really think these are high risk, low reward businesses doomed to failure you should sell your Tesla shares and perhaps short Tesla while you're at it. I recommend neither of those steps, just as I offer no other investment advice apart from serious due diligence and avoidance of participation in derivative securities designed to reward market makers.
good input ... i am not just not invested in TSLA for their financing or insurance products ... if they help TSLA great ... but they both rely on number of vehicles sold so if the vehicle and energy products dont stay attractive then there are no financing activities to improve the profitability ;)
 
Market manipulation via heavy call option buying.
I do not know enough to call why, but I agree. It was market manipulation. only 25 million shares traded all day, yet 3 million in the last ten minutes. Today's movement was put into play around 11:30 AM. Purchasing dried up. the stock however stayed on an even course, and then "to da moon." None of today makes sense if the game was not fixed.
 
Ten year auto loans, frankly, make no sense for the borrower in almost no cases. No matter how wonderful Tesla can make them, depreciation and interest make 'negative amortization' for several years on such deals since almost everyone opting for such loans also is financing 100% or more of the vehicle cost, including taxes, even when Tesla does not have typical worthless 'dealer adds'. New car buyers in the US average around 39 months before they trade for newer. Tesla-specific data on that is inconclusive because the fleet has been growing so quickly, but such trade data as exists suggests Tesla is fairly close to typical behavior in the US. Such outliers as exist are resulting in an increasing number of extremely high-utilization cars with >150,000 km and >100,000 mile cases becoming more common. Even among those it's improbable that longer financing terms would be advantageous to very many solvent people.

Well I was considering taking a long note for my Cybertruck, loaning that Cybertruck to my son for his robotaxi business (he reserved 5 Cybertrucks of his own), and I also thought I’d leave the funds needed to purchase my Cybertruck outright invested TSLA. Edgy case, I know. :cool:
 
Soft power


Soft indeed. Lots of folks here were sure it would've already BEEN changed this current session as a reward for the factory and jobs- but not so much it turns out.


February 2023? Next legislative session isnt for nearly 2 years?

Yup. That's Texas for you. They only meet every other year, and for a max of 140 days when they do.
 
There are regulations in place that would prevent Tesla from suddenly becoming the country's greatest and most profitable insurance company. If you don't believe regulations exist on insurance companies profitability, there's really no need for further discussion.
Ok, here goes. In the US there are no material Federal regulations regulating insurance companies, apart from general Federal regulation of public company actions such as from the SEC. Insurance regulation is almost exclusively at the State level and some States work hard to make regulations quite vague. In fact there are often regulations defining what insurance is, and most States establish some sort of payout ratios, although this are quite easy to 'manage'. In sum, in the USA insurance definitely is NOT WYSIWYG. There are endless examples of legal but nonetheless popular 'insurance' products.

In order to adequately explain this we would go seriously off topic so I will not do that.

Tesla approaches to insurance as they have been explained in the past, will be more data-intensive than have been previous auto and homeowner products.
Soem commercial insurance companies, like ProgressiveSnapshot, are beginning to directly measure actual driver behavior and set rates accordingly. Those practices have been increasingly common in fleet coverages as well as some aviation and marine categories. All share actual remote performance data, as such they are all quite invasive. Tesla already has much performance data but has not yet asked for or directly applied such data in rate setting or any other such case.

Tesla certainly will not try to become "the most profitable" insurance company, but maybe they will become "the greatest". Under most State rules there are no existing prohibitions of such underwriting practices. Existing actuarial techniques need not even change, just the data and the continuous revisions would require new business approaches.

Further discussion is needed, especially for people who do not understand how Tesla views the evolution of their insurance products. Their views have been open, but thus far nobody has been asking many questions because they've not yet done anything.

Since I personally have been following Elon Musk: 1. PayPal could not be successful, 2. SpaceX was a joke and would surely destroy Mr. Musk, 3. Tesla was stupid and ridiculous and will fail just like all the others. 4. Tesla did not know how to build a car, 5. Starlink will never ever happen, 6. The Boring Company will never actually boil anything.

Now some people think Elon knows nothing about insurance. By now they should be wary of assuming facts not in evidence.
As for subscription models for things like FSD and much more. By now they should be wary of assuming facts not in evidence.

Finally, fact in evidence is indisputable. Elon Musk frequently underestimates how long it will take to solve some particular problem. Many of us still think it is a failure when something takes longer than it has been forecast to take. That should surprise none of us. The wait will be irrelevant when the thing actually arrives.

I've waited years for Tesla three times. I'll keep doing it. It's worth the wait.
 
February 2023? Next legislative session isnt for nearly 2 years?
Yep. Welcome to Texas State Legislature.
Every two years, the Texas Legislature convenes for a 140-day regular legislative session.

edit: as you might suspect, Texas legislators need real jobs. Like…oh…automobile dealership owners.
 
Soft indeed. Lots of folks here were sure it would've already BEEN changed this current session as a reward for the factory and jobs- but not so much it turns out.




Yup. That's Texas for you. They only meet every other year, and for a max of 140 days when they do.
CT has enough demand for next few years, Tesla should just fill all the non Texas orders until the backlog is cleared.
Texas can wait until the laws are changed. As Texans get to see the Made in Texas CTs Shipped out to other states , wonder how long before they start calling their representatives. Once the phones start ringing , laws will be changed in a heartbeat.
 
Last edited:
Burry covering his short position.
If I were Burry, I would have covered before I had to file the form with SEC revealing my short.

Short sellers are all criminals and have the criminal mentality, they only reveal they are short something when they want to fleece retail. Otherwise they keep it quiet.

No one cared about Gamestop until it was made public that these hedge funds were trying to short it to bankwuptcy. We know what happened after that.
 
Tesla certainly will not try to become "the most profitable" insurance company, but maybe they will become "the greatest". Under most State rules there are no existing prohibitions of such underwriting practices. Existing actuarial techniques need not even change, just the data and the continuous revisions would require new business approaches.


Other things the guy is likely overlooking-

When State Farm has to pay a claim, it means they have to pay a 3rd party repair place, paying for 3rd party parts, and to do 3rd party labor- all with profit built in for everyone who is NOT state farm along the way.

Tesla however owns the shop. And the parts. And the entire channel.

So they have a lot of leeway.

They could just pocket all the profit for each step- meaning significantly higher income overall than a company that only dips a single part of the revenue stream for an insurance situation.

They could pocket SOME of the extra profit, but also offer lower rates than anyone else- offering a competitive advantage over other insurance.

They could decide to run the business close to even (as they allegedly do supercharging)- offering a SIGNIFICANT advantage over other CAR brands (hey it costs 1/4 as much to insure this Model 3 as a comparable BMW).

Or any combination of the above.
 
Ten year auto loans, frankly, make no sense for the borrower in almost no cases. No matter how wonderful Tesla can make them, depreciation and interest make 'negative amortization' for several years on such deals since almost everyone opting for such loans also is financing 100% or more of the vehicle cost, including taxes, even when Tesla does not have typical worthless 'dealer adds'. New car buyers in the US average around 39 months before they trade for newer. Tesla-specific data on that is inconclusive because the fleet has been growing so quickly, but such trade data as exists suggests Tesla is fairly close to typical behavior in the US. Such outliers as exist are resulting in an increasing number of extremely high-utilization cars with >150,000 km and >100,000 mile cases becoming more common. Even among those it's improbable that longer financing terms would be advantageous to very many solvent people.
Have you seen depreciation on a boat? Better yet... have you seen depreciation on a Tesla? It is NOT "close to typical behavior in the US" as you say. Tesla has been ave 10% annual from what I read. And if FSD goes to $14,000, it's gonna keep getting better for us, we only paid $8K for FSD back in the day.
 
So I was driving through a neighborhood that has no lane marking and all the sudden I saw that I could engage autopilot. After checking out a house I when back to the same spot and noticed some aqua very thin chalk lines not even in the center of the street and spaced kind of like lane marking. I decided to try autopilot and was able to engage it and it kept working for a while even after the lines where not there anymore. I was surprised about it and took some video and pictures. Is this normal and expected?
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Reactions: Paul_SF and GOVA