Tesla Priorities: Refine Autopilot or Fix Everything Else?

[davidc18]

All good here. We sent you some rain yesterday. Gorgeous morning now, with more rain tonight on its way.

...and yes, I agree. M3 will change the dynamic. I'm loosing confidence something will change nearer-term, and I know am sounding like a broken record, but selfishly hope Elon and Tesla get ahead of that curve for present owner's benefit, as well for as the longer term benefit to the brand. I want Tesla to be successful. Having spent all my career in software development, HW & SW tech support, & customer service -- including starting up remote technical support centers supporting both warranty and as a profit center -- and seeing how growth changes the dynamics, this whole subject just gets me going as you can tell. I learned the very important distinction between satisfied vs very satisfied customers (think 4-star vs 5-star), and what happens if you allow your customers to start feeling somewhat un-loved or their concerns not being attended to as they expect. If you're not careful, none of that is apparent or necessarily on your radar when you're in start-up mode and have an essentially unique product with customers willing to spend what it takes to have it, but is imperative for long term profitable growth as the dynamics evolve. I want more than anything for Tesla to understand that now and do something about it before it bites them in the you know what. I'm convinced we would all loose in that situation -- shareholders and owners alike.

+1 - This is well said.

 

[msnow]

Bluntly, I don't know about other manufacturers, but if I print out a set of turn-by-turn instructions from Google Maps at home before I leave, it's better than Tesla's turn-by-turn instructions. So, a paper printout is better.

With gapless media playback *and* this, what frustrates me is that it really shouldn't be difficult to do a decent job.
-- Hire a programmer to fix the media player. Look at the code for one of the open source players with gapless playback (like "audacious") as a reference; you'll be done in a month.
-- Tesla's already using Google Maps on the big screen, they can use Google turn by turn directions too.
There. Problems would be solved. They just haven't *bothered*.

I'm thinking the problem is that they don't want to be 100% dependent on online maps and data which is how Google Maps, Waze and the other good ones work.

 

[Andyw2100]

We can't even place a simple phone call using purely voice command. After using voice command to identify the entry in our phone book we want to call, we still must select the exact entry (home, mobile, office) by touching the 17" display. Would it be that difficult to improve the system to the point where we could simply say, "Call John Doe Mobile", and then have the system respond and show the number on the screen, and offer a confirmation prompt that we could respond to with either a scroll wheel press or another voice command to actually place the call, as opposed to having to take our eyes off the road to look at the 17" screen long enough to press the correct spot on it? This would seem to be both a safety enhancement, and also pretty darn simple to implement. Yet we don't have it.

 

[ohmman]

We can't even place a simple phone using purely voice command.

I've never used a voice command for dialing on the Tesla. I just use the phone's voice command to do it. In my case, I use an iPhone so I just do something like "Hey Siri... call my mom at home." I am sure I'm missing a perfectly good reason I'd want to use the Tesla system to instruct my phone to do something, but it seems on the surface that I should just interface directly with the phone. I'm sure Android has something similar with "OK Google" or whatever.

 

[Andyw2100]

I've never used a voice command for dialing on the Tesla. I just use the phone's voice command to do it. In my case, I use an iPhone so I just do something like "Hey Siri... call my mom at home." I am sure I'm missing a perfectly good reason I'd want to use the Tesla system to instruct my phone to do something, but it seems on the surface that I should just interface directly with the phone. I'm sure Android has something similar with "OK Google" or whatever.

I never even considered that.

I may look into it, though one concern would be if to be in that "always listening" mode the phone is going to be using more battery power. Even if that were the case, I could probably figure something out with automated mode switching for when I'm in and out of the car, to work around that.

But while this may be a solvable problem for those of us reasonably tech-savvy, Tesla --HAS-- built the ability to place calls using voice commands into the car's software, so why stop at a partial, pretty lousy implementation?

 

[ohmman]

But while this may be a solvable problem for those of us reasonably tech-savvy, Tesla --HAS-- built the ability to place calls using voice commands into the car's software, so why stop at a partial, pretty lousy implementation?

Yeah, this is fair enough. It's a weird implementation for sure.

FWIW, I have the "always listening" thing on my iPhone 6S and my battery life is generally quite good. And I use it *all the time*. I set a lot of timers and reminders. My wife and I share Reminders lists and Calendars, so I will Hey Siri grocery list items, calendar items, etc. So I think that's why it was natural for me to use it while I was driving.

 

[Andyw2100]

Yeah, this is fair enough. It's a weird implementation for sure.

FWIW, I have the "always listening" thing on my iPhone 6S and my battery life is generally quite good. And I use it *all the time*. I set a lot of timers and reminders. My wife and I share Reminders lists and Calendars, so I will Hey Siri grocery list items, calendar items, etc. So I think that's why it was natural for me to use it while I was driving.

I know my wife uses "Hey Siri" to place calls when we are together in the other car. When we're together in the Tesla, I'm almost always driving, since she gets to drive the Tesla more than I do. I honestly don't know if in the Tesla she uses "Hey Siri", or the Tesla's voice dialing system. I will have to inquire.

 

[BertL]

I've never used a voice command for dialing on the Tesla. I just use the phone's voice command to do it. In my case, I use an iPhone so I just do something like "Hey Siri... call my mom at home." I am sure I'm missing a perfectly good reason I'd want to use the Tesla system to instruct my phone to do something, but it seems on the surface that I should just interface directly with the phone. I'm sure Android has something similar with "OK Google" or whatever.

For me, I keep my iPhone 6 in my front pocket most of the time I'm in my MS, so Hey Siri is not something I can make use of. Being able to verbally place a call and have a verbal pick list appear if needed, like I did in my former old-tech Lexus and MBZ would be great for me.

FWIW, I only pull my iPhone out and plug into the center console when I'm on a road trip, just so I can do the Hey Siri thing if an emergency were to arise. Now that this discussion has come up, you know, I could press the crown on my Apple Watch to communicate with Siri, have have it place the call -- the phone will then take over the MS bluetooth connection while the call is active, so that may be another workaround while I wait for Tesla to do some catching-up. Who says we're not all a bunch of geeks coming up with workarounds like that!

 

[msnow]

I've never used a voice command for dialing on the Tesla. I just use the phone's voice command to do it. In my case, I use an iPhone so I just do something like "Hey Siri... call my mom at home." I am sure I'm missing a perfectly good reason I'd want to use the Tesla system to instruct my phone to do something, but it seems on the surface that I should just interface directly with the phone. I'm sure Android has something similar with "OK Google" or whatever.

We've all got so used to using workarounds to solve these problems that it's become second nature. If I really want to have confidence in navigating to a destination I use my iPhone, if I want to make a call I skip Tesla's supposed built-in capability and use Siri. At some point I'm hoping they can just fix these long standing issues.

 

[brooklynrab]

Per BertL, let's face it, the stock doesn't pop from a software update and Musk clearly doesn't see these improvements as being worthwhile -- and he calls all the shots for now. As Bert reminds us, read the book on Musk and then try to guess how this story ends up, unless he has learned to change his approach a little.
We will get a little useful feature upgrade here and there (e.g., the garage door auto opener) but that is all I expect from this company until the M3 is a reality.
I am no sure how good I feel anyway about having my family totally relying on electric cars from one company, so this makes it easy to not go with Tesla for our next car.

 

[kort677]

I hear there's a new easter egg, yippeee

 

[brkaus]

How many people does waze have on staff? I found an article that said they grew to 110 in 2013. They also have a huge group of volunteers editing maps, something that probably wouldn't happen with Tesla (or would it?).

Then Tesla has the offline requirement as well.

It isn't an easy problem.

I have nav in my current bin-tesla cars. I still only use waze...

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

When I first started looking at the Model S a few years back, I couldn't believe it didn't offer any kind of adaptive cruise control. This was a non-starter for me, as I had grown used to having it on my Prius. But then autopilot was announced, completely leap frogging all of the other manufacturers' automation.

I am holding out for something similar to happen with navigation. I am certain when Model S was first designed, nav was offered because all but the most low-end cars today have nav. But they did the minimal implementation that would suffice. What I am hoping to see is another leap frog, when next-gen nav comes out. Perhaps it will be integrated with autopilot. Perhaps it will provide lane-by-lane optimization. Perhaps it will complete blow away anything else on the market. While this effort is underway, it makes sense that Tesla would focus their resources on next-gen nav and just do the minimal maintenance on the existing nav system.

To be clear, this is just speculation, but something like this would be needed for eventual autonomy.

 

[calisnow]

...there is no way, two years from now, that tesla will have an appreciable "lead" over its better funded competitors in autopilot functions...

Oh rly? Here's the brand new 2017 Mercedes E-class being compared in Norway to the Model S. This is Mercedes' next generation Drive Pilot which they have been bragging about. You made your prediction in March. So Mercedes now has 20 months left to catch up with whatever level of autonomous performance Tesla has going on at that point. We'll see.

 

[srthomas21]

Roger, You make some good points, but the NAV system isn't a feature request -- it is a core system that works like crap. A speedometer that is not readable with sunglasses on is a safety threat.

What kind of sunglasses do you use? I wear them every day and have never had an issue with reading the speedometer.

 

[msnow]

Recently, in this thread, Firmware 7.1 - For Classic Model S, a number of us emotionally debated what Tesla should be spending its time on for 7.2, now that 7.1 is out. In that thread, a number of us Classic MS drivers expressed disappointment at Tesla's seeming abandonment of refinements of half completed essential and nice-to-have features, like voice commands, the all-essential NAV, UI, Favorite voice call list, the internet radio interface, and abortions like auto-condition (or whatever its called). Some of you argued that auto-pilot is the future of the company, and Tesla should be spending al of its resources on perfecting that.

I argue that if the purpose of Tesla enhancements is to sell more cars, rather than to pump the stock price or create a revolution (debatable, I know), that Tesla should be focussing on optimizing the overall user experience with the car, and just hang in the hunt on auto pilot, since the best car companies are all doing it anyway, and this will not be a differentiator of Tesla from other cars a year from now (look at the auto shows and CES this year if you don't believe me). I believe that Tesla can make more hay and differentiate by optimizing its user experience, making it elegant and usable, turning the combination of the gorgeous 17 inch screen, voice command (which is where the entire world is going) and the steering wheel controls into the "Apple of cars", than by throwing all apparent programming resources at auto pilot, which an occasional sop to the rest of us like the garage self opener (which is great -- if I would upgrade from 6.2 -- which I won't because the UI on 7.0-7.1 sucks).

The electric drive train is a differentiator, sure, but I think Tesla needs more than that to sell a lot of cars, especially for as long as oil prices stay low, as we approach the mass market 3's.

What do you think Tesla should be doing with its programming dollars?

Fixing what they started like you said above.

 

[Spidy]

Oh rly? Here's the brand new 2017 Mercedes E-class being compared in Norway to the Model S. This is Mercedes' next generation Drive Pilot which they have been bragging about. You made your prediction in March. So Mercedes now has 20 months left to catch up with whatever level of autonomous performance Tesla has going on at that point. We'll see.

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Honestly this would have zero influence on my purchasing decision. I would not enable any automated steering system where I'm ultimately responsible on such a road . Even if the Model S does better in the 2nd&3rd picture that's still way to close for my comfort and could result in an accident if there was a oncoming car or maybe even truck. If I have to worry in every corner if the car will make it or not then that's just increased stress for me which is the opposite a assist system is supposed to provide.

I want these system for overall safety, highway driving and stop&go traffic... not for that.

 

[brooklynrab]

Oh rly? Here's the brand new 2017 Mercedes E-class being compared in Norway to the Model S. This is Mercedes' next generation Drive Pilot which they have been bragging about. You made your prediction in March. So Mercedes now has 20 months left to catch up with whatever level of autonomous performance Tesla has going on at that point. We'll see.

View attachment 183031

Yup, we'll see. And keep an eye on Volvo while you're at it.