Tesla Model Y Delivery Timing Raises Concerns: Video

[Cloxxki]

I will point out that the majority of employees here seem to end up parking on the street or in borrowed car-parks due to the lack of space that British real-estate suffers from. I worked at a large engineering plant and our site had enough parking for about 10 cars. Everyone else got to park on the road.

For info: £1k conversion can turn London lamp posts into EV chargers | This is Money

Real estate situation vs lack of carpooling and public transport, it can get horrible in places, also in my neck of the (lack of) woods. With just 10 parking spots for a large company, local government should enforce those all to be electric only. If top management want their coveted spaces, they better switch to BEV (not PHEV considering the situation) and when there's inspection there better be 10 BEV's charging before lunch and 10 others after.

 

[SO16]

You don't understand.
The tone and rhetoric echoed make it a cult. Not the preference for what clearly is a beautiful car brand with innovative tech that's currently market leader in each class it offers products in.
The worship of anything Elon does, exchanging his name and the brand name he is CEO and only 20%shareholder for. Brand he didn't found (of course he did found others).
The baseless blind faith absolute declarations and claims coming from people who made the effort to create accounts on places such as Electrek just to call someone with a more balanced opinion a short, troll, naysayer, FUDster, oil shill, etc. Which other brand has such a verbally defensive and aggressive following? It's really more a religion than anything else for many of the people following the brand. And it's becoming such a toxic thing that the following is increasingly opposing people looking for a car exactly like a Tesla from becoming apart of it. Like this sports team with hooligan "sopporters". Would you buy their merch, even if you really identified with the team and love how they play? It gets complicated.
Like local pop music played very loud by neighbors who never liked any music before. You don't want to be associated with that. Over here we have a classical violinist and conductor focusing on Strauss and Waltzes. Doesn't attract the typical fancy crowds but the absolute bottom of the barrel in terms of music lovers. You'll find people have CDs of only this guy. And never went to a concert other than his.
Tesla is like that. People who never were car people suddenly care and alleviate their persona with their support for it. I was a bit like that and stepped away from it, bad vibes for me. I like to support the brand with my critical thought and by supporting other brands to keep Tesla honest. Not make it an easy ride to stay on top. Because I'm here for progress, not worship. For many online BEV fans, that makes me an oil shill. And that says so much about Tesla's following.

Certainly not for every buyer or follower, but Tesla for sure it a cult to many, even if they choose to deny it, perhaps also to themselves.

Rant much? And you complain about people who like Tesla? Good grief. You sound more off your rocker than the people you complain about. Relax.

1. Most of us don’t care that Elon wasn’t there on day one. But Tesla would NOT exist today if he hadn’t joined. He put his money where is mouth is. Few would do that. Especially to that level of tens of millions.

2. No one “WORSHIPS” Elon. Many like the mission but I think all would admit he’s made mistakes. The haters like to say those BS lines to discount the fact that many people do like the products and the mission.

4. If you don’t like it, feel free to spend time on a site that is NOT a Tesla site. You can find plenty of people on Twitter, Reddit, yahoo comments and almost every article where people hate on Tesla and hate on Elon no matter what he does and doesn’t do. The more rabid the haters get, the more rabid some supporters get. Think of it as Agent Smith vs Neo. It stinks but that’s what happens.

 

[Cloxxki]

Rant much? And you complain about people who like Tesla? Good grief. You sound more off your rocker than the people you complain about. Relax.

1. Most of us don’t care that Elon wasn’t there on day one. But Tesla would NOT exist today if he hadn’t joined. He put his money where is mouth is. Few would do that. Especially to that level of tens of millions.

2. No one “WORSHIPS” Elon. Many like the mission but I think all would admit he’s made mistakes. The haters like to say those BS lines to discount the fact that many people do like the products and the mission.

4. If you don’t like it, feel free to spend time on a site that is NOT a Tesla site. You can find plenty of people on Twitter, Reddit, yahoo comments and almost every article where people hate on Tesla and hate on Elon no matter what he does and doesn’t do. The more rabid the haters get, the more rabid some supporters get. Think of it as Agent Smith vs Neo. It stinks but that’s what happens.

I think point 3 sums it all up.
And ranting at least addresses an issue in depth (or tried to) rather than just throwing in a rhetorical buzz word that doesn't really add insight either way.

Is this just a fan site or also for information and insights? I was referring to commenters over on on Electrek mostly but you seem to be from very similar ilk

 

[jboy210]

Model Y's competitors have already hit the market, though. Really good range, decent cargo space Koreans for instance. Not equal in every way by any means, but long range S/CUVs nevertheless.

The Hyundai Kona and Kia Niro and Soul EVs look to be good cars, but they are targeting a different buyer. Like their ICE variants they target a lower price point than the Tesla. The Model Y target is someone would buy a BMW X3 or X5, Audi Q3/Q5, Mercedes GCL, or Lexus RX350. These cars start in the 40s, but usually go out the door over $50,000. I suspect the same will be true with most Model Ys, especially since the lower spec Model Y is 2021 (or later).

Also, in the US the Kona is currently a limited production compliance car, only being sold in a few states that follow the California Air Resources Board (CARB) guidelines. As a result it is sold out for the next 2-3 years.

 

[Cloxxki]

The Hyundai Kona and Kia Niro and Soul EVs look to be good cars, but they are targeting a different buyer. Like their ICE variants they target a lower price point than the Tesla. The Model Y target is someone would buy a BMW X3 or X5, Audi Q3/Q5, Mercedes GCL, or Lexus RX350. These cars start in the 40s, but usually go out the door over $50,000. I suspect the same will be true with most Model Ys, especially since the lower spec Model Y is 2021 (or later).

Also, in the US the Kona is currently a limited production compliance car, only being sold in a few states that follow the California Air Resources Board (CARB) guidelines. As a result it is sold out for the next 2-3 years.

It does show there is good demand, despite being overpriced, for a car that cannot be presumed to be an outright best effort.
With the BEV landscape being a bit barren, open minded people will consider the Koreans against the Model Y. And they do nearly the same job, for most of what an average driver can ever need.
There will always be people buying premium cars, as there are people who wear genuine gold and diamonds.
The practical added value is, to most real consumers, minute.
If we don't let everyone else go first, there are good BEVs to be had, today. Something to drive for 2-3 years until Model Y becomes available.

 

[jboy210]

It does show there is good demand, despite being overpriced, for a car that cannot be presumed to be an outright best effort.
With the BEV landscape being a bit barren, open minded people will consider the Koreans against the Model Y. And they do nearly the same job, for most of what an average driver can ever need.
There will always be people buying premium cars, as there are people who wear genuine gold and diamonds.
The practical added value is, to most real consumers, minute.
If we don't let everyone else go first, there are good BEVs to be had, today. Something to drive for 2-3 years until Model Y becomes available.

It might be different in the EU. But, the issues for us in the US is the Hyundai is a multi-year wait, and so may be the Kias. So by the time they hit the US in quantities the choice will be a base Model Y or one of these cars.

In the US today we have Tesla 3 and Chevy Bolt as the top 2 selling EVs. You see the occasional Nissan Leaf, but none of Zoes, Mitsubishis, and other BEV options available in the EU.

 

[Cloxxki]

It might be different in the EU. But, the issues for us in the US is the Hyundai is a multi-year wait, and so may be the Kias. So by the time they hit the US in quantities the choice will be a base Model Y or one of these cars.

In the US today we have Tesla 3 and Chevy Bolt as the top 2 selling EVs. You see the occasional Nissan Leaf, but none of Zoes, Mitsubishis, and other BEV options available in the EU.

Yes, the low number in production may be because the Koreans know it's a stop-gap, or because they cannot deal with the demand for other BEV models that would erupt if Kona and e-Niro became commonplace.
The whole industry is looking for ways to do enough to not be left behind, and not too much to suffer a sudden death of the business they need to survive on a day-to-day basis. It's a humongousy complex chess game. Not just brands versus each other, but also not to ie in isolation from making a better car that gains too much popularity. BEV production can only grow as quick as the cell and motor production. Invest too much too soon and you're dead. Invest too little and you're dead. Make the worst BEV and you're dead. Make the best BEV and you're dead.
It's a standoff on top of a train that's heading towards a low tunnel. There may be no winners at all.

 

[jboy210]

Yes, the low number in production may be because the Koreans know it's a stop-gap, or because they cannot deal with the demand for other BEV models that would erupt if Kona and e-Niro became commonplace.
The whole industry is looking for ways to do enough to not be left behind, and not too much to suffer a sudden death of the business they need to survive on a day-to-day basis. It's a humongousy complex chess game. Not just brands versus each other, but also not to ie in isolation from making a better car that gains too much popularity. BEV production can only grow as quick as the cell and motor production. Invest too much too soon and you're dead. Invest too little and you're dead. Make the worst BEV and you're dead. Make the best BEV and you're dead.
It's a standoff on top of a train that's heading towards a low tunnel. There may be no winners at all.

Agree. But I think companies like Tesla may win if they have the cash to survive. Tesla does not have the legacy income stream from ICE vehicles, but as you point the dependency on the this holds you back. Also, Tesla does not have a dealership network to depend on to sell it's product. And this dealership networks makes a lot of money fixing/maintaining existing ICE vehicles so is not in any hurry to give up this income stream.

 

[Cloxxki]

So while Tesla goes about doing cars differently, it also limits its own growth. If independent dealerships would be able to make a buck, they'd be pushing those cars like crazy.
Tesla gets a lot of flack for issuing too many shares and taking on too much debt. For the cause, they should have double down perhaps. And be a bit less "special" about everything. Make cars EVERYONE wants, not just people who have found their cause, "saving the planet" by buying a launch edition BEV.
I can't get over the coveted features Tesla omits and the opportunities they leave on the table with the in house tech and capability they obviously have. It goes way beyond glove box pinch buttons and instrument clusters and HUDs.
With a 15" or 17" screen, when the car is being charged, why not a more informative charge screen that pulls all info together? Or can be self-designed, for that matter. So much promise. Being a software company.
Sure, production limited, still. But not by a lot anymore. And the competition is not blindly going to copy you. Polestar 2: similar central screen, not omitting the instrument cluster. So many customers they don't alienate right there.

 

[SO16]

I think point 3 sums it all up.
And ranting at least addresses an issue in depth (or tried to) rather than just throwing in a rhetorical buzz word that doesn't really add insight either way.

Is this just a fan site or also for information and insights? I was referring to commenters over on on Electrek mostly but you seem to be from very similar ilk

Uh ok.

 

[tomas]

You don't understand.
The tone and rhetoric echoed make it a cult. Not the preference for what clearly is a beautiful car brand with innovative tech that's currently market leader in each class it offers products in.
The worship of anything Elon does, exchanging his name and the brand name he is CEO and only 20%shareholder for. Brand he didn't found (of course he did found others).
The baseless blind faith absolute declarations and claims coming from people who made the effort to create accounts on places such as Electrek just to call someone with a more balanced opinion a short, troll, naysayer, FUDster, oil shill, etc. Which other brand has such a verbally defensive and aggressive following? It's really more a religion than anything else for many of the people following the brand. And it's becoming such a toxic thing that the following is increasingly opposing people looking for a car exactly like a Tesla from becoming apart of it. Like this sports team with hooligan "sopporters". Would you buy their merch, even if you really identified with the team and love how they play? It gets complicated.
Like local pop music played very loud by neighbors who never liked any music before. You don't want to be associated with that. Over here we have a classical violinist and conductor focusing on Strauss and Waltzes. Doesn't attract the typical fancy crowds but the absolute bottom of the barrel in terms of music lovers. You'll find people have CDs of only this guy. And never went to a concert other than his.
Tesla is like that. People who never were car people suddenly care and alleviate their persona with their support for it. I was a bit like that and stepped away from it, bad vibes for me. I like to support the brand with my critical thought and by supporting other brands to keep Tesla honest. Not make it an easy ride to stay on top. Because I'm here for progress, not worship. For many online BEV fans, that makes me an oil shill. And that says so much about Tesla's following.

Certainly not for every buyer or follower, but Tesla for sure it a cult to many, even if they choose to deny it, perhaps also to themselves.

TLDR rant at “them”

 

[doug]

Over here we have a classical violinist and conductor focusing on Strauss and Waltzes. Doesn't attract the typical fancy crowds but the absolute bottom of the barrel in terms of music lovers. You'll find people have CDs of only this guy. And never went to a concert other than his.

I just had to acknowledge the hilarious reference to the super annoying André Rieu and his clap-along-to-the-music fans. Haha!

 

[Cloxxki]

I just had to acknowledge the hilarious reference to the super annoying André Rieu and his clap-along-to-the-music fans. Haha!

Cheers!

Now visualize a 100% predicted car that looks exactly like its predecessor and a stuttering presenter and an audience made up of people who took urgent leave from their lucrative jobs getting plane tickets just to see it all unfold in person.

 

[jboy210]

So while Tesla goes about doing cars differently, it also limits its own growth. If independent dealerships would be able to make a buck, they'd be pushing those cars like crazy.
Tesla gets a lot of flack for issuing too many shares and taking on too much debt. For the cause, they should have double down perhaps. And be a bit less "special" about everything. Make cars EVERYONE wants, not just people who have found their cause, "saving the planet" by buying a launch edition BEV.
I can't get over the coveted features Tesla omits and the opportunities they leave on the table with the in house tech and capability they obviously have. It goes way beyond glove box pinch buttons and instrument clusters and HUDs.
With a 15" or 17" screen, when the car is being charged, why not a more informative charge screen that pulls all info together? Or can be self-designed, for that matter. So much promise. Being a software company.
Sure, production limited, still. But not by a lot anymore. And the competition is not blindly going to copy you. Polestar 2: similar central screen, not omitting the instrument cluster. So many customers they don't alienate right there.

Tesla definitely has it own ways of doing things. I have never been a fan of the central single screen and removal of standard control stalks in the Model 3. As an X owner I appreciate these features on my car.

However, I do agree with them by not having an independent dealer network. They control the product from conception to delivery for good or bad. Much the way that Apple does.

The dealer associations in the various states in the US has done all they can to stop Tesla. Such as prevent direct sales of cars to people in their state, forcing buyers to jump through all sort of hoops including driving 100s of miles to get deliver or service of their cars. In the states where Tesla is allowed to sell directly to customers the buying experience is modern. Take a test drive, and if you like they sat you down at a computer and you order it online. No pressure to buy today, or putting you in a small room while the salesman and their manager work on you for a couple of hours.

At traditional car dealers is more like a battle. With Tesla it was here is the price for the car you speced, you decide.

 

[Oldschool496]

If there is a BP station on the local highway, why would Shell add theres right next door? Makes no sense. Tesla is the exception, for now. They'll have chargers right next to the 50kW and 350kW public chargers. A necessary evil in the past and to an extent present. And it's prevented faster growth of public chargers, realistically. But as Tesla drivers find other options on CCS, Tesla will lose incentive to expand as much. And to be frank, they've not come close to their goals over 2018 and it's been find for most locations. V3 charging will further enable their locations to process more cars per day per stall.

Everything you are saying may be true from your habits of driving and your availability of CCS perhaps. Even with Volkswagen Group having to install court mandated charging around the US. It'll be at least 5-10 years for them to get even close to where Tesla is today. By then, who knows where Tesla will be in regards to infrastructure and charge times.

Here in the states with a speckled Level two offering in cities and without Tesla Supercharging I am going nowhere. No way I am waiting 14 hours+++ to move another 180 miles.

Supercharging here is equivalent to CCS where you are, not exactly, but its what we have.

Without it we have all bought into Grocery Getters. I did not buy my Tesla to pick up Groceries only. I bought it to replace in entirety a Chevrolet Suburban. Not so much for the hauling of anything, but for TRIPS on the weekends.

I have been on 3000 mile trips with my Model S in 7 days looking at colleges every other day. There is no way I would even attempt the first leg of that travel without a Supercharger in place to keep me moving. Even with Supercharging, people in the US are leary of the whole thing. There is a lot to be understood even in 2019 with electric cars. Even in a Tesla.

SO publicly our infrastructure for electric propulsion does not exist really for real road traveling. Privately it does and the brand doing that is TESLA, whether you like them or not. For the US the only current viable answer is that brand. Its been too loooooooooong also waiting for someone to step up to the plate.

Jaguar, BMW, Volkswagen Group (Porsche, Audi etc), Volvo, and any other B.E.V. that may come out. They really have nowhere to charge for road trips currently in the US. Kinda like wagon before the horse.

It'll be slow adoption for them I am afraid. Im not happy about it, but thats the REAL Reality here in the states. Tesla has secured their future and its un-paralleled currently. So going back to the analysts, they are talking about profits today. That's his business. I'm afraid though the short sighted view is just that.

No way I am buying a car with 150 miles of range or other and cannot travel 3 hours from my home on weekends in a expedient manner.

 

[Cloxxki]

Cheers!

Everything you are saying may be true from your habits of driving and your availability of CCS perhaps. Even with Volkswagen Group having to install court mandated charging around the US. It'll be at least 5-10 years for them to get even close to where Tesla is today. By then, who knows where Tesla will be in regards to infrastructure and charge times.

What's your reasoning that it would taken VW about as long, being a much more productive and powerful superbrand, versus a startup that has just over half a million cars on the road vs making over 6 million every year? When they start transitioning, it will be quick.
Also, they are just one brand of many and they have decided to go CCS it seems. Everyone can build a CCS charger and everyone can charge there. It's like tapping $10 bills from a bare mountain.
CCS looks to be the future, for now, and Tesla is joining it. Only Nissan isn't, at least for now?

Really, charging stations should be provided by utility companies just as well as oil companies provide retail gas sales stations. Total no-brainer. $0.02/kWh or less cost, sales price easily $0.20-30. They faster your charger the more you can "charge" /kWh and the more customers you can serve per parking spot occupied.

 

[Oldschool496]

What's your reasoning that it would taken VW about as long, being a much more production and powerful superbrand, versus a startup that has just over half a million cars on the road vs making over 6 million every year? When they start transitioning, it will be quick.

From your mouth to Gods ears, I hope so. Most would be Jubilant, me included. Reality though says otherwise. I know of a few 6-8 electrify America chargers, Tesla had a few superchargers in 2012. Now they have over 12,000 stalls worldwide.

When a govt tells you you have to do this vs willingly, well its two different things. By 2027 VW is mandated to spend 2B on infrastructure for electric cars here. Thats 10 times what I think Tesla has spent. 1476 (as of today) sites times $150,000 per site(some more some less on average)=221M. The big hold up here is time. Permits, construction, Location. These things take time.

Remember VW Group will also have to carry their gas cars business around on their balance sheets as well. Thats painful. Its hard to be in two camps at the same time and slowly transition. Tesla does not have that problem. They do however have a whole other host of problems.

Having Gas and Electric together in the same brands is your slowly fighting each other. Imagine if you had TM3 and BMW 3 series in the same brand, god help you. One would suffer dragging slowly the other down with it perhaps. Thats the conundrum gas car makers are in.

EV-1 perfect example. Not a overly great electric car as we know today, but a vision of the future. Kiil it dead before it kills the whole industry. Bob Lutz(former GM head) saw where it could go and scared the crap out of him. He is still soiling himself over what is happening.

VW electrify America will be using batteries also from guess who for the electrify America transition. Tesla. Tesla you must remember is not a car company, they make batteries now. The point really is here, Tesla has a huge leap at least in America and it'll be a very long time, very long before others may catch them. Sounds like you don't agree so we should just agree to disagree.

 

[artsci]

Two pages long talking how involved Tesla cultists are....hm.

That’s because the post is all about the OP and nothing else.

 

[Cloxxki]

Buying these packs outright is a great way (and the only way) to dissect them. Why build an army of engineers to invent the wheel? Some stuff may be patented, some may be easily circumvented. It's only good business.
Also, VW seems to have a cell sourcing problem. Maybe they want to pressure LG a bit. Hopefully not so much, LG seems to be needing VW less than the other way around.

 

[Lasairfion]

I have a friend who works for a bakery, and when I say bakery I mean the sort that can empty a semi-truck load of flour in less than 30 seconds. One of the bajillion loaves a day sorts of places.

Anyway, my point is that they had a new director come in and he was all like "why are we manufacturing for our competitors?" and put a stop to that. Let's just say that it was career suicide. They still haven't recovered entirely.

Tesla as a battery manufacturer is going to win every time VW's Electrify America (or any other charging company) needs one of their power-packs. Their competitor's growth is also their own growth.

Now if only they also owned a solar cell company to sell PV panels to the electricity suppliers (likely requiring low-cost energy production to meet environmental targets) that are needed to juice up those charging station power packs....