Tesla Model 3 2019 RWD snow problems

[talsk]

Hi all,
My car has the Pirelli Sottozero 3 tires. My building driveway out of the parkade is about a 40 degree incline for 20-30m and I cannot make it to the top in the snow in this car. This morning it was even plowed and I still had to reverse back down into the parkade and call in absent to work. My previous Mazda3 with cheaper winter tires had no problem. Is there something I'm missing? Some setting to change? I'm not super experienced in the snow but like I said I never had issues with the Mazda, and I bought this car because I drive up to 400km per day for work and need something RELIABLE.
I appreciate any advice

 

[GtiMart]

Turn on slip start so that the rear wheels are allowed to spin a little bit. The traction control is a little bit too conservative sometimes.

 

[RedTesY]

Try Auto Socks, they are an easy on/off alternative to tire chains, available from most tire stores and Amazon.

 

[heavyD]

Get studs installed on your tires as per Pirelli instructions.

Sottozero - Motorsport tire | Pirelli

Discover Sottozero: a competition-only tire for winter and snow condition!

www.pirelli.com

 

[tm1v2]

Hi all,
My car has the Pirelli Sottozero 3 tires. My building driveway out of the parkade is about a 40 degree incline for 20-30m and I cannot make it to the top in the snow in this car. This morning it was even plowed and I still had to reverse back down into the parkade and call in absent to work. My previous Mazda3 with cheaper winter tires had no problem. Is there something I'm missing? Some setting to change? I'm not super experienced in the snow but like I said I never had issues with the Mazda, and I bought this car because I drive up to 400km per day for work and need something RELIABLE.
I appreciate any advice

@talsk When you say "cannot make it" what actually happens? Do you find yourself spinning wheels too easily? How many wheels actually spin at once?

Or is the issue that the traction control or stability is interfering too much, not letting you use enough power, or grabbing too much brake when you're still in control?

Also exactly what tires did you have on the Mazda 3? ("cheaper" doesn't necessarily mean worse snow or ice traction)

To be frank, RWD with an open differential - which is the base Model 3's drivetrain layout - is generally considered a poor choice for serious snow and ice driving. I'd highly recommend an AWD Model 3 where you live!

If you won't get an AWD, then @heavyD's suggestion of studs seems very reasonable honestly, for RWD open diff car to handle the kind of driving you're describing. (I've no personal experience with studs.)

 

[XPsionic]

It hardly ever snows in Nanaimo (like 2-3 times a year and it melts away in a day usually), studded tires would be insane. Here's what I'd do if I were you.

1. Try "slip start" mode
2. Back up as far as you can and take a running start up the ramp and never stop
3. Ask your condo building to put de-icer on the ramp
4. Ask them to shovel it better
5. Put down de-icer/cat litter/sand/gravel yourself

Look at this video. If they can get up that hill in Calgary in their SR+, then you could probably get out of your parking garage too.

 

[tm1v2]

It hardly ever snows in Nanaimo (like 2-3 times a year and it melts away in a day usually), studded tires would be insane.

@XPsionic Ahh I saw "BC" and "40 degree angle" and assumed Nanaimo was up in the mountains.

Looking at where Nanaimo actually is on a map, I probably wouldn't want studs there either. But a long steep driveway in freezing weather is no joke, even if the really deep or slippery days are rare.

@talsk If it's only a handful of days a year this is an issue, how about using cables/chains (or other fancier traction device) just for this ramp? I hate dealing with chains and wouldn't want to on any regular basis, but if this weather is rare for you, maybe they're the least bad option.

 

[XPsionic]

If it's only a handful of days a year this is an issue, how about using cables/chains (or other fancier traction device) just for this ramp? I hate dealing with chains and wouldn't want to on any regular basis, but if this weather is rare for you, maybe they're the least bad option.

Very valid option indeed. Get a set of chains or snow socks for those 2-3 days.

Also here's a slightly expensive trick when you don't have any cat litter or sand handy... if there's a thin layer of ice, go walk up to the top and pour some -40c Windshield washer fluid on it, it'll melt the ice and let your tires reach bare pavement. Doesn't work if there's deeper snow btw, works great for like 1cm of ice where all the car tires have been spinning and polishing the ice.

Works like a charm for shorter driveways, but you said 20-30 meters of slope? Probably too much of an area to cover without dumping your entire $5 jug of washer fluid lol.

 

[PianoAl]

Try Auto Socks, they are an easy on/off alternative to tire chains, available from most tire stores and Amazon.

I also recommend these. I just posted a review.

 

[pdx_m3s]

You’re using the wrong tool (all season tires) for the job. Tires are really the only thing that matters when it comes to snow/ice.

 

[KenC]

Hi all,
My car has the Pirelli Sottozero 3 tires. My building driveway out of the parkade is about a 40 degree incline for 20-30m and I cannot make it to the top in the snow in this car. This morning it was even plowed and I still had to reverse back down into the parkade and call in absent to work. My previous Mazda3 with cheaper winter tires had no problem. Is there something I'm missing? Some setting to change? I'm not super experienced in the snow but like I said I never had issues with the Mazda, and I bought this car because I drive up to 400km per day for work and need something RELIABLE.
I appreciate any advice

A picture would help. The Mazda is presumably a FWD. Your Tesla is a RWD. A FWD has a lot of weight over the front tires because the engine is there. Your Tesla does not. Some people put sand bags in the rear trunk to add weight to the rear tires. Others, in a pinch, find that reversing up a short hill sometimes works. If it's just that short stretch, some people also use temporary straps on the tires to get up the hill. I've never, so I have no experience with it, but in the rare instance you need to get up a small hill, it might be worth considering. Also, it might not hurt to drive with an experienced snow driver to get some pointers. Some people even take a winter driving class.

 

[GregD60]

You’re using the wrong tool (all season tires) for the job. Tires are really the only thing that matters when it comes to snow/ice.

Sottozero 3s are a performance winter tire, not an all season tire. In my experience, they give up maybe 10 to 15 percent in ultimate grip on ice versus a good nonstudded snow tire like a Michelin X-Ice Snow.

For the OP, if it's close, maybe the extra 10 to 15 percent of something like an X-Ice Snow would be enough to get you out of the driveway. Full on snow tires like the X-Ice aren't as much fun to drive as a performance winter tire like the Sottozero 3s, particularly with regard to steering response and changes of direction, but it sounds like getting up the driveway is the important objective here.

 

[GregD60]

A picture would help. The Mazda is presumably a FWD. Your Tesla is a RWD. A FWD has a lot of weight over the front tires because the engine is there. Your Tesla does not. Some people put sand bags in the rear trunk to add weight to the rear tires. Others, in a pinch, find that reversing up a short hill sometimes works. If it's just that short stretch, some people also use temporary straps on the tires to get up the hill. I've never, so I have no experience with it, but in the rare instance you need to get up a small hill, it might be worth considering. Also, it might not hurt to drive with an experienced snow driver to get some pointers. Some people even take a winter driving class.

Reversing up a hill works with FWD cars, but not RWD cars. The reason is because there is a weight shift towards the lower wheels when going up a hill. You want that weight shift to be going to the wheels that are driving the car. On a steep hill, a car with a near 50/50 weight balance and RWD like a Model 3 RWD will generally go up the hill better than a FWD car due to the weight shift. The Tesla's traction control also works quite well, just get on the power and stay in it to the top.

 

[pdx_m3s]

Reversing up a hill works with FWD cars, but not RWD cars. The reason is because there is a weight shift towards the lower wheels when going up a hill. You want that weight shift to be going to the wheels that are driving the car. On a steep hill, a car with a near 50/50 weight balance and RWD like a Model 3 RWD will generally go up the hill better than a FWD car due to the weight shift. The Tesla's traction control also works quite well, just get on the power and stay in it to the top.

I completely misread the OPs post. Thought he was referring to the Pirelli OEM tires.

 

[tm1v2]

Sottozero 3s are a performance winter tire, not an all season tire. In my experience, they give up maybe 10 to 15 percent in ultimate grip on ice versus a good nonstudded snow tire like a Michelin X-Ice Snow.

@GregD60 Interesting that you feel the Sottozero 3 only gives up around 10-15% of ice traction vs a traditional studless snow & ice tire. That's actually quite impressive, and makes me think the "performance winter" category may have improved significantly since I last tried it (late 2000s).

Back then the difference felt larger to me, especially on ice. As big as the jump was from allseasons to performance winters (Dunlop Winter Sport 3D), it felt that big again after moving to true studless snow & ice (Conti ExtremeWinterContact). This was all on AWD cars though...I've never used snow tires on 2WD, I wouldn't know what to expect there for traction.

The performance winters were clearly better on pavement than the studless snow & ice, but the tradeoff felt very linear, everything they gained in dry and wet handling they gave up on ice and snow.

 

[GtiMart]

The Pirelli Sottozero 3 surprised me on dry highway driving. They are not mushy when changing lanes, they are the closest to an all season or summer tire I have ever driven in the winter. However, you pay the price in snow and ice where they are not as good as other winter tires I've used. I feel like they are an all season tire that was stamped for winter, for places like here where winter tires are mandatory.
If you see very little snow and ice they would be good. If you live in Quebec where we see many feet of snow and quite a bit of ice, I would not recommend them.

 

[GregD60]

@GregD60 Interesting that you feel the Sottozero 3 only gives up around 10-15% of ice traction vs a traditional studless snow & ice tire. That's actually quite impressive, and makes me think the "performance winter" category may have improved significantly since I last tried it (late 2000s).

Back then the difference felt larger to me, especially on ice. As big as the jump was from allseasons to performance winters (Dunlop Winter Sport 3D), it felt that big again after moving to true studless snow & ice (Conti ExtremeWinterContact). This was all on AWD cars though...I've never used snow tires on 2WD, I wouldn't know what to expect there for traction.

The performance winters were clearly better on pavement than the studless snow & ice, but the tradeoff felt very linear, everything they gained in dry and wet handling they gave up on ice and snow.

I think a lot of it depends on what kind of snow and ice you're dealing with. If you're dealing with 4"+ of snow on the ground, the Sottozero 3s are probably 30% worse than an X-Ice, but on less snow or slush or ice, I'll stick with my 10% to 15% less effective than the X-Ice. This is based on my personal experience using both tires on both RWD and AWD cars. When it comes to winter, my primary concern isn't how fast I can get around, but just being able to get around. Ice is about the only thing that really impacts that on an AWD car. When it comes to deep snow, the limitation with Sottozero 3s on a Model 3 becomes ground clearance. When you start plowing the snow instead of going over it, you'll have problems, but the same is true with full on snows; you'll just be able to push maybe an extra 1/2" of snow around.

 

[Randy-12]

The Pirelli Sottozero 3 surprised me on dry highway driving. They are not mushy when changing lanes, they are the closest to an all season or summer tire I have ever driven in the winter. However, you pay the price in snow and ice where they are not as good as other winter tires I've used. I feel like they are an all season tire that was stamped for winter, for places like here where winter tires are mandatory.
If you see very little snow and ice they would be good. If you live in Quebec where we see many feet of snow and quite a bit of ice, I would not recommend them.

Different strokes for different folks.

I'm on the Pirelli Sottozero 3's and I've had no issues so far this winter.
Good traction on snow and decent on ice so far.

 

[timk225]

The Model 3 traction control, even when using Slip Start, is still way too restrictive and sensitive. There needs to be a further setting called "Pittsburgh Winter" that turns traction control ALL THE WAY OFF. Sometimes avoiding wheel slip is not the answer, you need to be able to romp on it hard and power your way through.

Back when I had my 1971 Plymouth Valiant, a rebuilt (by me) limited slip differential and a reasonable set of cheap winter tires on the back, I could go nearly anywhere in that thing, and there was no traction control nanny to interfere. If I came up on some deep snow, I'd HIT IT and get through!!!!!

 

[GtiMart]

@timk225 , I now use offroad mode when it snows here. I find it a bit better although it still doesn't disable controls. I tend to yoyo the accelerator to induce some level of sliding in corners. Not as easy as an old Subaru but it "works"