Supercharging the 70D

[hmmm]

Supercharger speeds are not tied to onboard chargers. Those are bypassed when DC charging (supercharging or chademo charging)

Thanks for confirming my gut.

- - - Updated - - -

You should get dual chargers if there is somewhere you can use it on the road. Even if you get it, you don't have to upgrade your panel and set your HPWC for the maximum current. It works just fine at lower currents - you just get proportionally lower charging speeds.

The other reason I wouldn't get dual chargers initially is so that I can spend the dollars i "saved" on other options...and also because my current expected driving/charging pattern doesn't make it a "must have". But something I'm planning on getting in the future.

 

[Rama]

Just another data point.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

So,the question remains, does a 70D do better supercharging than an S85 with an "A" pack in it? I wonder how narrow that gap is?
Anyone recall the delta in Supercharging for the "A" vs "B" packs?

Well since you guys didn't answer immediately......:scared:

I had a Sig so capped @ 90KW and a new 60 would go to 105KW with an "E" battery so I expect that in comparison to my Sig the 70D oughta be better time wise and I expect that the 70D should be north of 105KW by at least a little cause the VxA oughta be a bit higher than a 60 with a newer battery...

Crossing my fingers as when I chose the 70D I completely forgot about the Supercharger time. :cursing: (off topic musing) And, boy do I hope the blue grows on me

I just noticed no one actually addressed this. I am curious too. But my take on it is charging speed might be slightly faster in the 70d pack just because of thr max charge current. For thr A pack for the s85, it is current limited right away. Sure it might stay at 90Kw longer than the 70d staying at 105kw, but the 70d is more efficient and probably add ranges faster.

So my take is the pack A tesla model s has one of the worst supercharging time. Only the s60 might have worst supercharging time.

This slower supercharging speed is one of the main reason i am holding out for the 85d. It is the most efficient on the highway therefore it will add range the fastest out of all the model s enabling me to leave faster if i am ever in a rush during those occasional road trips.

 

[benfrank3]

Rewarding taper, when I'm on a road trip I have been setting the charge point to full/100% so that the taper isn't a factor until as late in the charge process as possible. I typically won't need to wait for a 100% charge, so what I do is hit the stop charging button and then go on my way. This seems to maximize my charging rate at a SC. My 2 cents.

 

[TexasEV]

Rewarding taper, when I'm on a road trip I have been setting the charge point to full/100% so that the taper isn't a factor until as late in the charge process as possible. I typically won't need to wait for a 100% charge, so what I do is hit the stop charging button and then go on my way. This seems to maximize my charging rate at a SC. My 2 cents.

The charging limit you set has no effect on the tapering at a supercharger.

 

[Ingineer]

TexasEV is correct. The BMS controls the taper and bases it on factors such as pack temperature, state-of-charge, capacity, etc. The charge threshold setting only stops the charge at the point you set, which is no different than if you manually stop it. The BMS doesn't change it's charge current specification at all.

 

[Ramon70D]

This is 5 minutes into my 70D Supercharge. I started at 10% SOC.
I completed charging at 90%, +192 miles at 55 minutes.
My battery pack part number is: 1058971-00-B.

 

[glhs272]

70D owners: what we would all like to see is a video of a supercharge from 0% to 100% or as close to it as possible. This will give us all the data points we are looking for. Islandbayy, maybe you can get your hands on a 70D for a little bit...

 

[dhanson865]

This is 5 minutes into my 70D Supercharge. I started at 10% SOC.
I completed charging at 90%, +192 miles at 55 minutes.
My battery pack part number is: 1058971-00-B.

Well, that's 109 KW (339a * 322v = 109.158 KW)

The old limits were

Some can charge at 90 KW (85 KWh A battery pack, near 1.06C charge rate)
some can charge at 105 KW (60 KWh with older battery pack, 1.75C charge rate)
some can charge at 111 KW (60 KWh with newer battery pack, 1.85C charge rate)
some can charge at 120 KW (85 KWh B or D battery pack, near 1.41C charge rate)


Don't know if the S70D is sharing the 111 KW or the 120 KW limit or if it has it's own.

provisional S70D limit possibilities

111 KW (70 KWh, 1.59C charge rate)
120 KW (70 KWh, 1.71C charge rate)
129 KW (70 KWh, 1.85C charge rate)

it'd be nice to charge a 70D from 0 miles remaining at the mountain view supercharger with the new cables and one of the 135KW superchargers from the list at North - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum

 

[Tedkidd]

... And doesn't the individual station sometimes come into play? Aren't they paired and if two cars are charging one get's priority?

 

[Rocky_H]

... And doesn't the individual station sometimes come into play? Aren't they paired and if two cars are charging one get's priority?

That is correct, Ted. Look for the numbers on the stations. 1A and 1B are sharing a charging stack. 2A and 2B are also sharing, etc. The priority works this way: First car there gets the highest level it can take--100kw or whatever. Second car there on the other shared one gets whatever is leftover, so if first car is drawing 105kw, second car is getting 15kw if it's the common "120kw Supercharger" type. As the first car's battery gets fuller, and it starts to slow down the charging rate, it's continuing to shift more power over to the second car. So when first goes down to 80kw, second car is getting 40kw.

 

[Oba]

I have seen a peak of 344a (I suspect the spec is 340a... it was bouncing around a couple amps), and it will hold that maximum amp rate until perhaps 20%-30% SOC%.

Max voltage displayed whilst charging: 353v.

Assuming 84 cells in series * 4.20v while charging = 352.8v
Assuming 84 cells in series * 4.15v OCV = 348.6v

Starting at 3v per cell / 252v pack, then perhaps:

Low battery state = 300v charging * 340a = 102kW
25% battery state = 325v charging * 340a = 110kW
50% battery state = 350v charging * 275a = 96.5kW
75% battery state = 350v charging * 100a = 35.0kW
90% battery state = 350v charging * 50a = 17.5kW

So, with the above theory, I'll try it out.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

I have seen a peak of 344a (I suspect the spec is 340a... it was bouncing around a couple amps), and it will hold that maximum amp rate until perhaps 20%-30% SOC%.

Max voltage displayed whilst charging: 353v.

Assuming 84 cells in series * 4.20v while charging = 352.8v
Assuming 84 cells in series * 4.15v OCV = 348.6v

Starting at 3v per cell / 252v pack, then perhaps:

Low battery state = 300v charging * 340a = 102kW
25% battery state = 325v charging * 340a = 110kW
50% battery state = 350v charging * 275a = 96.5kW
75% battery state = 350v charging * 100a = 35.0kW
90% battery state = 350v charging * 50a = 17.5kW

So, with the above theory, I'll try it out.

I doubt tesla fully charge cells to 4.2V. I think it's more like 4.1V or less. So going on the math, it should be 86 cells in series. It shouldn't make a difference on your calculation. Just pointing it out.

 

[Oba]

I doubt tesla fully charge cells to 4.2V. I think it's more like 4.1V or less. So going on the math, it should be 86 cells in series. It shouldn't make a difference on your calculation. Just pointing it out.

I've actually seen the data in real time. Yes, regen and charging goes to 4.2v.

OCV is 4.15v.

It's the same number in series as the 60kWh (84 in series * 60 cells in parallel), but with the 85kWh modules (74 cells in parallel).

 

[Oba]

Low battery state = 300v charging * 340a = 102kW
25% battery state = 325v charging * 340a = 110kW
50% battery state = 350v charging * 275a = 96.5kW
75% battery state = 350v charging * 100a = 35.0kW
90% battery state = 350v charging * 50a = 17.5kW

So, with the above theory, I'll try it out.

Charged from 50% today in SoCal, at about 85F temperature:

50% battery state = 216a
75% battery state = 125a

So, I was close!

 

[gimmi80]

Another time point

 

[dhanson865]

Another time point

well your 116 KW at 13% makes it look like 120KW might be the limit. Was that on a 120KW supercharger or on a 135KW supercharger? Compare vs the link in my quote below.

The old limits were

Some can charge at 90 KW (85 KWh A battery pack, near 1.06C charge rate)
some can charge at 105 KW (60 KWh with older battery pack, 1.75C charge rate)
some can charge at 111 KW (60 KWh with newer battery pack, 1.85C charge rate)
some can charge at 120 KW (85 KWh B or D battery pack, near 1.41C charge rate)

provisional S70D limit possibilities

120 KW (70 KWh, 1.71C charge rate)
129 KW (70 KWh, 1.85C charge rate)

it'd be nice to charge a 70D from 0 miles remaining at the mountain view supercharger with the new cables and one of the 135KW superchargers from the list at North - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum

 

[paco3791]

well your 116 KW at 13% makes it look like 120KW might be the limit. Was that on a 120KW supercharger or on a 135KW supercharger? Compare vs the link in my quote below.

be careful here. As a 60 owner I have been able to draw well over the max for a 60 from superchargers when I'm at low state of charge AND running the HVAC system. Especially in winter this easily adds another 10kw of draw to what the max should be for a 60 from running heaters for the cabin and for the pack. not sure what the max draw is for the AC but that will potentially skew the numbers.

 

[gekkota]

My 2013 60 with 27k miles Supercharging this week from MN to IL, very little HVAC:

 

[Ramon70D]

My fastest Supercharge since updating to firmware .251!