Supercharging the 70D

[glhs272]

Kinda a bummer, was hoping for a 400 volt pack.

 

[ahurst]

Can someone explain this in English to a newbie?

 

[FredTMC]

haha thanks, my passenger's. But I do have the classic leather band one. Speaking of, Connect TT app is beta testing their apple watch app and it's kind of cool - Watch App Beta Testing Update

Very good to know what the amps will read as the charging progresses. I can't wait to Supercharge again, just amazing I could drive across the country and not use gas. I hope these stations don't fill up with long waits after Model X & 3 ship.

Cool. Don't worry about superchargers filling up. Tesla will continue to add more pumps and locations. They'll scale it out.
I've had my car over two years. They've done great with scaling up

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

maximum range rate gain is similar to the 60KWh at lower state of charge (probably < 30%). The range rate gain reduces later compared to the 60KWh Model S.

Simply put it, the supercharging rate is somewhere in between the 60KWh and the 85KWh but closer to the 60KWh.

Hope this helps!

 

[kaiserpathos]

Cool. Don't worry about superchargers filling up. Tesla will continue to add more pumps and locations. They'll scale it out.
I've had my car over two years. They've done great with scaling up

Awesome. I am amazed at how easy Supercharging is and how many stations they have now.

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maximum range rate gain is similar to the 60KWh at lower state of charge (probably < 30%). The range rate gain reduces later compared to the 60KWh Model S.

Simply put it, the supercharging rate is somewhere in between the 60KWh and the 85KWh but closer to the 60KWh.

Hope this helps!

Thanks. I can live with that. Between that and the new trip-planner beta telling me roughly how long I need to be at a Supercharger, before heading on toward the next Supercharger, I'm good to go.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

What I don't understand is the obsession with pack voltage.

Power is a function of Voltage and Current so who cares how they added more cells? I understood the obsession over whether there was higher capacity cells. That made sense because it would be nice to have more range without adding any more cells. But, sadly in the case of the 70D it simply has more cells.

so the only question is how they added those cells.

There is only two ways to add more cells. You either add them together (additional current capacity) or on top of each other (adding voltage). In either case you get the same power.

Yes, the Supercharging current is limited to 330A (from what someone else said) so sure a 60/70 is going to be a little slower charging in the beginning due to the pack voltage difference, but how often does a person pull into a supercharger empty enough for this to impact them?

In Kaisers screen cap at the 113 mile mark his 70D is charging just slightly faster than the Bjorn 85 at that same mileage (181km). I expect them to be about the same at this point because its well before any taper.

 

[glhs272]

What I don't understand is the obsession with pack voltage.

Power is a function of Voltage and Current so who cares how they added more cells? I understood the obsession over whether there was higher capacity cells. That made sense because it would be nice to have more range without adding any more cells. But, sadly in the case of the 70D it simply has more cells.

so the only question is how they added those cells.

There is only two ways to add more cells. You either add them together (additional current capacity) or on top of each other (adding voltage). In either case you get the same power.

Yes, the Supercharging current is limited to 330A (from what someone else said) so sure a 60/70 is going to be a little slower charging in the beginning due to the pack voltage difference, but how often does a person pull into a supercharger empty enough for this to impact them?

In Kaisers screen cap at the 113 mile mark his 70D is charging just slightly faster than the Bjorn 85 at that same mileage (181km). I expect them to be about the same at this point because its well before any taper.

Pack voltage matters because the car and fast charging equipment is limited by how many amps it can run through the electronics. So if you want to run more power through the same system, increase the voltage. In the case of superchargers, your going to peak out at 105kw when running at 350 volts. Yeah you can improve the taper with the 70, but still it would be more effective at 400volts because you can have a higher peak and still improve the taper. In the case of Chademo which is highly amperage limited (125amp), you will significantly limit the max charging speed throughout the charge process. Then there's driving the car itself. The 60 looses performance a lot quicker than the 85 as the voltage drops (a regular 85 is not amp limited until way at the bottom of charge), again due to running into the amperage limit as the volts drop. I understand why Tesla did it this way, it doesn't take much to replace a few of the faux cells with real cells, where as if you add modules to increase pack voltage now your adding real cost.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

What I don't understand is the obsession with pack voltage.

Power is a function of Voltage and Current so who cares how they added more cells? I understood the obsession over whether there was higher capacity cells. That made sense because it would be nice to have more range without adding any more cells. But, sadly in the case of the 70D it simply has more cells.

so the only question is how they added those cells.

There is only two ways to add more cells. You either add them together (additional current capacity) or on top of each other (adding voltage). In either case you get the same power.

Yes, the Supercharging current is limited to 330A (from what someone else said) so sure a 60/70 is going to be a little slower charging in the beginning due to the pack voltage difference, but how often does a person pull into a supercharger empty enough for this to impact them?

In Kaisers screen cap at the 113 mile mark his 70D is charging just slightly faster than the Bjorn 85 at that same mileage (181km). I expect them to be about the same at this point because its well before any taper.

The only time they would matter is on long road trips which is when you care about supercharging station charge rate.

I do think it is important to many who are on road trips or even the occassional trip. If you can force more electrons with higher voltages, you are essentially adding more range faster than you would at lower voltage.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Pack voltage matters because the car and fast charging equipment is limited by how many amps it can run through the electronics. So if you want to run more power through the same system, increase the voltage. In the case of superchargers, your going to peak out at 105kw when running at 350 volts. Yeah you can improve the taper with the 70, but still it would be more effective at 400volts because you can have a higher peak and still improve the taper. In the case of Chademo which is highly amperage limited (125amp), you will significantly limit the max charging speed throughout the charge process. Then there's driving the car itself. The 60 looses performance a lot quicker than the 85 as the voltage drops (a regular 85 is not amp limited until way at the bottom of charge), again due to running into the amperage limit as the volts drop. I understand why Tesla did it this way, it doesn't take much to replace a few of the faux cells with real cells, where as if you add modules to increase pack voltage now your adding real cost.

Thanks. That's some helpful information.

I knew to get more power without having to raise current you increase the voltage (unless there is something else in the system that won't allow for it). What I wasn't aware of though is the cars own limitation on current, and I didn't even think about the Chademo case.

I don't regret at all ordering the 70D because while I don't have any definite information on the charge time I'm pretty it will charge from 5-80% in 40 minutes or so. I also don't think there really will be much of a time penalty in minutes with a 70D versus an 85D when charging the same amount percentage wise anywhere within the 20-80% range with a supercharger (typical distance between superchargers is around 130-150 miles at least where I live). Maybe around 7-10 minutes at most.

When I ordered most of my concern was how much extra time was needed to get range beyond 192miles, and I was okay with that since I'm not a huge road tripper. If I was it would have been the 85D all the way (range, faster recharge when using miles to the next destination as the measurement).

With a Chademo charger from the looks of plugshare I'll be lucky to find one that works so if I get anywhere close to 125Amps I'll be happy.

 

[kaiserpathos]

With a Chademo charger from the looks of plugshare I'll be lucky to find one that works so if I get anywhere close to 125Amps I'll be happy.

I had the same thinking, looking around town at my Chademo options it's clear I won't be seeing anything like Supercharger speed - so I likely will only use them in a pinch when I need range quickly while in-town, or if I'm going anywhere that has more Chademo opportunities than Supercharger site opportunties.

All in all I am more than pleased with this car! The 70D meets all of my needs and I don't care if I need a few extra minutes at the SC on a trip. I am very happy with everything so far.

 

[dogphlap]

Dear Kaiserpathos,
thank you for the images of your white Model S 70D.
I have yet to see a Tesla outside of a computer screen but despite that I did order one just like yours only with the plain aluminium roof and adjustable air shocks but it won't get here before late September 2015 (wait time includes 2 months on a ship). I'd been wondering if I did the right thing getting the plain white rather than spring for one of the other dearer colour options. Seeing yours tells me I chose correctly.

 

[glhs272]

Thanks. That's some helpful information.

I knew to get more power without having to raise current you increase the voltage (unless there is something else in the system that won't allow for it). What I wasn't aware of though is the cars own limitation on current, and I didn't even think about the Chademo case.

I don't regret at all ordering the 70D because while I don't have any definite information on the charge time I'm pretty it will charge from 5-80% in 40 minutes or so. I also don't think there really will be much of a time penalty in minutes with a 70D versus an 85D when charging the same amount percentage wise anywhere within the 20-80% range with a supercharger (typical distance between superchargers is around 130-150 miles at least where I live). Maybe around 7-10 minutes at most.

When I ordered most of my concern was how much extra time was needed to get range beyond 192miles, and I was okay with that since I'm not a huge road tripper. If I was it would have been the 85D all the way (range, faster recharge when using miles to the next destination as the measurement).

With a Chademo charger from the looks of plugshare I'll be lucky to find one that works so if I get anywhere close to 125Amps I'll be happy.

Glad to hear about no regrets. Wasn't trying to dump on the 70. It will be a fantastic car. Just trying to point out the differences between the 70 and 85 because there are still differences other than the 15kwh. And those differences may justify some spending the extra $ if it matters to them. I still love my 60 too ;-).

 

[travwill]

Hey, is that the solid white (basic) and not Pearl? If so, we got the same design I think (I did black Alcantara liner). Up here in Chicago now but back down in TX in a few years (home) I hope!
Enjoy and congrats!

 

[davecolene0606]

So,the question remains, does a 70D do better supercharging than an S85 with an "A" pack in it? I wonder how narrow that gap is?
Anyone recall the delta in Supercharging for the "A" vs "B" packs?

Well since you guys didn't answer immediately......:scared:

I had a Sig so capped @ 90KW and a new 60 would go to 105KW with an "E" battery so I expect that in comparison to my Sig the 70D oughta be better time wise and I expect that the 70D should be north of 105KW by at least a little cause the VxA oughta be a bit higher than a 60 with a newer battery...

Crossing my fingers as when I chose the 70D I completely forgot about the Supercharger time. :cursing: (off topic musing) And, boy do I hope the blue grows on me

 

[kaiserpathos]

Dear Kaiserpathos,
thank you for the images of your white Model S 70D.
I have yet to see a Tesla outside of a computer screen but despite that I did order one just like yours only with the plain aluminium roof and adjustable air shocks but it won't get here before late September 2015 (wait time includes 2 months on a ship). I'd been wondering if I did the right thing getting the plain white rather than spring for one of the other dearer colour options. Seeing yours tells me I chose correctly.

Glad I could help and congrats on your purchase! I think you chose well, I sweated the color the first couple days before I locked in my car for production -- in the end I couldn't be more pleased with the white. Some car models out there don't look good in white, but Model S is not one of them - it really pops and looks great. When your car arrives I know you'll agree. Again, congrats!

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Hey, is that the solid white (basic) and not Pearl? If so, we got the same design I think (I did black Alcantara liner). Up here in Chicago now but back down in TX in a few years (home) I hope!
Enjoy and congrats!

Thanks! Yeah I went with the solid white/basic and ended up doing just the regular liner w/ tan leather. 300 miles in and I couldn't be happier so far!

 

[ahurst]

Glad I could help and congrats on your purchase! I think you chose well, I sweated the color the first couple days before I locked in my car for production -- in the end I couldn't be more pleased with the white. Some car models out there don't look good in white, but Model S is not one of them - it really pops and looks great. When your car arrives I know you'll agree. Again, congrats!

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Thanks! Yeah I went with the solid white/basic and ended up doing just the regular liner w/ tan leather. 300 miles in and I couldn't be happier so far!

How is the acceleration? I think you test drove the 85D as well.

 

[hmmm]

Since we're talking 70D and SC, I have a really dumb question...regardless of the car model, does the charging speed vary whether you have a single vs a dual charger installed in the car? My gut says no, but my fut had been wrong before...

I'm debating getting a 70D but would only get a single charger initially to avoid making my electrician's day with a massive overall of our current panels etc for now.

Thanks

 

[glhs272]

Supercharger speeds are not tied to onboard chargers. Those are bypassed when DC charging (supercharging or chademo charging)

 

[miimura]

I'm debating getting a 70D but would only get a single charger initially to avoid making my electrician's day with a massive overall of our current panels etc for now.

You should get dual chargers if there is somewhere you can use it on the road. Even if you get it, you don't have to upgrade your panel and set your HPWC for the maximum current. It works just fine at lower currents - you just get proportionally lower charging speeds.

 

[kaiserpathos]

How is the acceleration? I think you test drove the 85D as well.

I did. The acceleration and torque are great and, to my senses, doesn't feel all that different. They both have that violent kick from a dead stop. The 70D's kick and acceleration is more forceful than the last comparable car I owned in this class ('01 BMW 540i). I think you'll love the acceleration!