Suggested Tesla Supercharger locations in Florida

[tdelta1000]

Oh god do I miss the Sawgrass Mills mall!

Odenator... Yes!!!..that's a great location.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Mapping Suggested Supercharger Locations

Forum member daxz has setup a ZeeMap application to map these suggested Supercharger locations.

Suggested Supercharger Locations

I posted a few locations.

Larry

 

[Larry Chanin]

Ok going to make some people mad here but ... don't put superchargers where people will park for hours. Perhaps a couple restaurants but not malls, national parks, theme parks. You want regular 10kW or 20kW chargers at the places you park at for 2-3 hours or more. You want superchargers where you only park for 30-45 minutes.

But putting super chargers at malls is just going to get them clogged up. If you put them at malls you will have to hire valets to shuffle cars around and charge them properly, I would be so pissed if I was trying to cross the state and someone who was shopping for 3 hours had the Supercharge all tied up. Superchargers I believe should operate like gas pumps, you need to sort of sit and wait on them. You can get regular 240VAC 70A chargers where you park for 2-3 hours. I would recommend an Ice Cream store with super charger on both sides. Having a cool treat for a half hour would be great for 9-10 months out of the year.

I understand your point and, in theory, I agree. However, in examining real-world roads in Florida I noticed that there will be long stretches of major highways where you simply won't find a suitable restaurant or ice cream store right off the highway. In which case I agree with Nigel, I'd rather have a location with a lot of attractions, such as a mall or other points of interest, versus driving off the highway to go to say a McDonalds. In particular, with major points of interest where visitors are being attracted from across the state, a Supercharger would be very useful.

It should be emphasized that Tesla Superchargers are proprietary and only ModelSs, and later Model Xs, will be able to use them. (Even Tesla Roadsters can’t use Superchargers.) So Superchargers are less likely to be clogged up. I do agree that I would be just as annoyed if a Model S were occupying a Supercharger all day as I would be if it were a Leaf. However, the point is that the odds are a lot less of that happening with a proprietary charger. I’m convinced that, just like in California, informal customs will evolve whereby Model S owners will leave notes on their cars permitting others to disconnect them after an hour.

Anyway, with that as background, I've been having fun zooming in with Google maps to find potential Supercharger locations and posting them to the ZeeMap application.

Larry

 

[NigelM]

But putting super chargers at malls is just going to get them clogged up. ...I would be so pissed if I was trying to cross the state and someone who was shopping for 3 hours had the Supercharge all tied up.

That raises the question of charging etiquette which is a whole other subject, but one which will become more important as more EV's hit the roads. Of course, it also says a lot for apps which tell you when you car has finished charging. Heopfulley people would be decent enough to move their EV once it's fully charged.

 

[dadaleus]

Tesla should put signage and indicators on the chargers letting everyone know it's okay to unplug a car once the charge is complete.

 

[NigelM]

Thread on EV parking over here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/2812-EV-parking-priority

 

[Larry Chanin]

But putting super chargers at malls is just going to get them clogged up.

That raises the question of charging etiquette which is a whole other subject, but one which will become more important as more EV's hit the roads. Of course, it also says a lot for apps which tell you when you car has finished charging. Heopfulley people would be decent enough to move their EV once it's fully charged.

Thread on EV parking over here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/2812-EV-parking-priority

There's a rather heated discussion over at the EV parking priority thread.

I believe a simple approach which would assist in unclogging chargers, including Tesla Superchargers, is to have a payment system in place whereby a premium is charged when parked after being fully charged. The Supercharger host should have the option of establishing a nominal fee for charging, and that could be free if the host so chooses. However, once the charging is complete, or the Model S has been connected for more that a predetermined time limit, the premium fee should always be imposed and it should be high enough to discourage folks from using the spot for parking more than an hour or so.

So far Tesla has been tight-lipped regarding information regarding the Superchargers, but in my opinion it would be wise to incorporate the option of charging fees, even if initial installations do not charge fees.

Larry

 

[Larry Chanin]

Recently Elon's statements regarding solar powered Supercharger stations coupled with a news story stating that Tesla is assisting Walmart in installing battery storage at 90 of their stores with PV array has stired some speculation that perhaps Tesla is considering placing their Superchargers at Walmarts.

Here are excerpts from articles discussing this information.

Tesla Supercharger network to feature solar panels, battery swapping

Still, hints as to what is involved with the Superchargers arose during the Q&A session after the main presentation and makes us think that this will indeed be pretty cool.

For example, we expect it to feature battery swapping. Long a controversial concept in the electric vehicle community, it is clear that Tesla is going to employ it in some fashion. Whether it will be available for every pack size – the Model S comes with either a 40-, 60- or 85-kWh pack – is not yet known, but it shouldn't prevent you from retaining ownership of a specific pack. While fast charging your 85-kWh Model S might take around 45 minutes using the 90-kW station with its proprietary connector, the battery packs are engineered to enable a swap as quickly as one minute.

Another prominent feature will be solar panels. Musk is a big proponent of solar energy and it's been reported that Tesla and SolarCity (where he also serves as chairman) are working together to create rooftop solar storage systems. What better place, we rhetorically ask with no pun intended, to implement such a scheme than atop stations stuffed with batteries. Musk says the panels will help illustrate the connection between sustainable power production and electric transport and go some way to combat the long tailpipe argument.

Green Energy: Cars, Fuel, and Solar (TSLA, WMT, ASTI, AAPL, KIOR) - 24/7 Wall St.

Hedging its bets, Tesla has also agreed to install battery storage systems at 90 stores around the country owned by Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (NYSE: WMT) and that have solar PV rooftoop systems. That’s not going to be a major shift in Tesla’s business plan, but it is interesting nonetheless.

So here is the speculation, if you are going to attempt to supplement a Supercharger with solar energy you are going to need a large PV array and a large flat roof to put them on. Walmarts have such roofs. It would be nice if a Supercharger was available around the clock. Many Walmart Supercenters are open 23-1/2 hours per day. It would be nice if a Supercharger was strategically located near major highways. Many, perhaps most, Walmarts are nearby major highways. (Refer to the google map below.) If you are also going to pursue battery swapping at Supercharger stations you need a garage facility with a lift. Many Supercenters have tire centers which could easily be adapted to include this operation.

To have some fun further speculating, obtain an interactive map of these locations by going to google maps and search on Walmart Supercenters, FL. Then zoom in to find candidate locations.

Here's and example, the Supercenter at Ormonds Beach is located right off of I-95 and it has a Tire & Lube operation, and its open 23-1/2 hours.

Larry

 

[NigelM]

It would arguably make sense for Tesla to get in on the FL Turnpike charge station developments.....

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9869-Florida-Turnpike-Service-Plazas-Charge-Stations

 

[Larry Chanin]

Tesla should put signage and indicators on the chargers letting everyone know it's okay to unplug a car once the charge is complete.

Jason,

I believe that once the car is locked the Supercharging connector is locked to the charging port.

Now that you have your Model S and the California Supercharger stations are up an running you can test this theory. :smile:

Larry

 

[jerry33]

I believe that once the car is locked the Supercharging connector is locked to the charging port.

You can see the locking in action here. The supercharger won't be any different from the UMC or J1772 adaptor. The question is does any Model S fob unlock the charge port, or just the one from the specific car?

 

[Larry Chanin]

Jerry,

Good question, but I'm betting that you have to unlock the car to unlock the charging port. Hopefully one of our California owners can confirm the operation.

Larry

 

[NigelM]

The locking pin is the same on the supercharger as on the UMC. Mine only releases when I unlock the car.

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

Hello, everyone!

I keep seeing people suggest 200-mile intervals between Superchargers, but please remember that they are intended for cars with both 60 and 85 kWh battery packs. If the Superchargers are much more than ~120 miles apart, they won't help those with the smaller battery. That 120-mile figure is roughly 80% of max range for the 60 kWh battery pack. So 100-mile or 120-mile intervals sound like the maximum that's realistically effective at fulfilling Tesla's objectives and not causing a lot of discontent from owners of 60-kWh cars.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Hello, everyone!

I keep seeing people suggest 200-mile intervals between Superchargers, but please remember that they are intended for cars with both 60 and 85 kWh battery packs. If the Superchargers are much more than ~120 miles apart, they won't help those with the smaller battery. That 120-mile figure is roughly 80% of max range for the 60 kWh battery pack. So 100-mile or 120-mile intervals sound like the maximum that's realistically effective at fulfilling Tesla's objectives and not causing a lot of discontent from owners of 60-kWh cars.

Hi Rodolfo,

You are correct 200 mile intervals are way too far apart. Realistically even 85 kWh batteries can't make that distance at interstate highway speeds with the air conditioning on. I don't have to say how important it is to be able to do the speed limit with the A/C on in Florida. :wink:

Fortunately, Tesla knows this and sets the distance at more reasonable distances.

Tesla Supercharger network

Larry

 

[NigelM]

You are correct 200 mile intervals are way too far apart. Realistically even 85 kWh batteries can't make that distance at interstate highway speeds with the air conditioning on.

After some real world driving with Model S over the last couple weeks, I have to disagree. I've driven >200 miles with 2 adults, 2 children and a dog with a/c on and entertainment on...and had plenty of range to spare at the end. This was cruising at 65-70mph and no drafting.

Granted I spent more time driving than if I had been cruising at 80mph, but then I would also have needed to stop and recharge (plus risk of tickets :wink. It's a trade-off with EVs, tortoise versus the hare story...

 

[Larry Chanin]

After some real world driving with Model S over the last couple weeks, I have to disagree. I've driven >200 miles with 2 adults, 2 children and a dog with a/c on and entertainment on...and had plenty of range to spare at the end. This was cruising at 65-70mph and no drafting.

Granted I spent more time driving than if I had been cruising at 80mph, but then I would also have needed to stop and recharge (plus risk of tickets :wink. It's a trade-off with EVs, tortoise versus the hare story...

Thanks Nigel,

However, if you're a Tesla planner you definitely don't want to space Superchargers 200 miles apart based on a single leg of a trip driven at or below the speed limit. You have to base your planning on doing multiple legs of a journey at or above the speed limit.

Here's how I'd arrive at a spacing:

Using Tesla's Range vs. Speed chart a 85 kWh Model S should have a range of 240 mile in Range mode when driving at a constant 70 mph with no A/C. However, if you are planning a long journey with multiple Supercharging stops it would be prudent to do your planning based on charging in Standard mode. That brings the range down to 216 miles without A/C. Tesla advises that driving with the climate control on can further reduce range by 10-15%. The 15% is probably for cold climates with the heat on so let's just use a 10% reduction. That reduces the range to 194 miles.

Now realistically if you are planning a long trip you're probably not going want to wait for a charge of near 200 miles of range because the Supercharger tapers off the rate of charge greatly as it exceeds 50% state of charge. As the battery fills the Supercharger slows down to the rate of a home charger. Although it would take only 30 minutes to obtain 150 miles of range, it would take hours to charge to 200 miles. So the Supercharger is no longer a fast charger. People taking long journey are not going to want to wait hours at each Supercharger station.

Finally, Tesla planners have to consider that the spacing must also accommodate 60 kWH batteries. If you do similar caculations and reduce the range proportionally to account for the reduced battery size the range at a constant 70 mph with A/C on is about 149 miles.

As I mentioned in my previous posting Tesla has apparently considered this and all but one of their California Supercharger spacings accommodated this limited range.

If I were planning Supercharger spacing ideally it would be at most 150 miles, 120 would be better to permit 60 kWh cars to more realistically travel at 80 mph with the A/C, something the vast majority of Florida drivers do.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Larry

 

[NigelM]

Understood, but I'm still not completely convinced that the trade off is worth it. Look at the tortoise/hare example:

We set off simultaneously on a 350 mile journey...

I drive 200 miles and charge for 30 minutes then drive the rest of the way. At 70mph my total time 5 1/2 hours.
You drive at 150 miles, charge for 30 minutes, drive another 150 miles, charge for 30 minutes and drive the rest of the way. At 80mph your total time a little over 5 1/2 hours.

They're pretty much the same, what you gain from driving faster is lost by having to charge more often. Consider the environmental impact and additional resources needed to install so many more superchargers and question is it worth it?

 

[Larry Chanin]

Understood, but I'm still not completely convinced that the trade off is worth it. Look at the tortoise/hare example:

We set off simultaneously on a 350 mile journey...

I drive 200 miles and charge for 30 minutes then drive the rest of the way. At 70mph my total time 5 1/2 hours.
You drive at 150 miles, charge for 30 minutes, drive another 150 miles, charge for 30 minutes and drive the rest of the way. At 80mph your total time a little over 5 1/2 hours.

They're pretty much the same, what you gain from driving faster is lost by having to charge more often. Consider the environmental impact and additional resources needed to install so many more superchargers and question is it worth it?

Owners with 85 kWh batteries are of course free to travel as they deem appropriate.

It is true that for your specific example the trip durations are about the same, but what is it worth to you to have an extra restroom and brief food break especially if you are traveling with children? :wink:

More importantly spacing Superchargers at 200 mile intervals would require 60 kWh cars to travel at 55 mph on interstate highways with the air conditioning turned off inorder to manage the distance then they would have to charge for a few hours and repeat at the next Supercharger location.

Here is what Tesla has already done for the spacing of the California Superchargers:

Folsom to Gilroy ..................................................169 miles

Gilroy to Harris ...................................................112 miles

Harris to Tejon .....................................................116 miles

Tejon to LA .......................................................... 91 miles

LA to Barstow .......................................................121miles

I believe the spacing is about right and I do believe that it is worth it.

Larry

 

[NigelM]

Guess that depends on how you see the 60kWh battery pack? Personally I wouldn't consider it a road trip car, well at least not on any sort of regular basis. Of course if Tesla is going to put superchargers every 100 miles or so I wonder why amy of us bothered to buy the 85kWh version....:wink:

Tesla is still pretty California-centric but I wonder how many superchargers FL would really need/get if they're to be every ~100miles?

BTW Larry, I'm also becoming increasingly certain that with our flat terrain I could get 400 miles out of a charge if we could find the right route.