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That lawsuit is all over the map...not very well written IMHO...talks about rated range vs what he gets in real life without specifying how he's driving (vs rated wh/mi).Here is to download the new class action lawsuit pdf:
https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/download.html?id=295147539&z=ae851db0
Approx 100k made according to wikipediaDoes anyone know how many 70s and 85s were sold or exist currently?
You have to assume that most packs are "bad' because of a single module and that would be fairly easy to debug/replace. However that would require to use modules from 4+ years ago to even match closely the other modules in our packs (i.e need to find used/salvage modules). That would point to a large side business refurbishing packs. On the other had we could also hope that new 85kwh packs would come down in price to 10-12k in a few years and make it palatable for many of us to upgradeMy thoughts why Tesla can't just replace all 70/85 packs: Logistics.
The new 85 pack is a 14 of 16 100 pack, so there are 8256 x 14/16 = 7224 cells in each pack. What's the production capacity for 18650 cells per year? 722,400,000 per year? I doubt it. And that's just the start.
You don't put 500kg Li-Ion packs into a paper bag and give it to DHL/UPS/FedEx/... you need specialized logistics.
For transport and warehouse management. Potentially every country has different laws on fire safety regulations how to store battery packs.
To replace just 50,000 packs in one year, that's 250 per working day, each service center or certified partner must have specialized battery storage rooms for the new packs and, of course, the pile of old packs which are maybe a fire hazard. Old packs have to be discharged for mounting them. My service center told me they have to discharge to below 20% before they are allowed to do anything on the pack. The new packs have to be charged.
So either Tesla has gone the google way and is now even more evilor than Skeletor's brother Voldemort, or they are still preparing this major logistics nightmare. Or a third option: trying to fit 4680 cells into the 85 pack space and we have to wait for 4680 ramp up.
My thoughts why Tesla can't just replace all 70/85 packs: Logistics.
The new 85 pack is a 14 of 16 100 pack, so there are 8256 x 14/16 = 7224 cells in each pack. What's the production capacity for 18650 cells per year? 722,400,000 per year? I doubt it. And that's just the start.
You don't put 500kg Li-Ion packs into a paper bag and give it to DHL/UPS/FedEx/... you need specialized logistics.
For transport and warehouse management. Potentially every country has different laws on fire safety regulations how to store battery packs.
To replace just 50,000 packs in one year, that's 250 per working day, each service center or certified partner must have specialized battery storage rooms for the new packs and, of course, the pile of old packs which are maybe a fire hazard. Old packs have to be discharged for mounting them. My service center told me they have to discharge to below 20% before they are allowed to do anything on the pack. The new packs have to be charged.
So either Tesla has gone the google way and is now even more evilor than Skeletor's brother Voldemort, or they are still preparing this major logistics nightmare. Or a third option: trying to fit 4680 cells into the 85 pack space and we have to wait for 4680 ramp up.
There in lies the rub, doesn’t it? It would seem to me that they are not rolling back the firmware because there is a safety concern with impacted batteries and they do not want to replace them under warranty so they are trying to make the batteries last as long as possible.But Tesla does not reverse the software kludge. Why not?
15mm taller but tabless and structural too so they might be able to save that much in overall pack height?I’m loving the idea of batteries coming down in price quickly enough in the next couple years that we could INCREASE the range of ~V2 Model S vehicles for a few grand. Loving the idea of 4680 replacements for the 85kwh packs, but they’re 15 mm taller than 18650’s, is there 15mm of height left over in these packs/cavities?
Tesla could just restore the software to pre-May 2019. Therefore, no need for tens of thousands of new or completely remanufactured batteries. Then, most of the charges would be dismissed as moot; the remaining violations of various consumer protection and warranty laws could be negotiated with the court. There would be no need for complex solutions to deliver these battery packs across the globe. But Tesla does not reverse the software kludge. Why not?
most of 85s got turned into 70s
Seems that if the lawsuits are ruled in favor of us, the only practical solution will be some compensation to owners and/or possibly reduced price on new battery (i/e upgrade). Maybe $1500 each so you can use it on new MCU2? - i wouldn't be surprised if that's what the thought process is within the company.
Ok, on to the serious topic. If what is said here is correct, then many or possible all of these packs are not safe, so remanufacturing them, or giving you brand new ones (let's just say they could) will not make them safer.
Alternative is to allow upgrade to SR battery (for 70s) and LR (for 85s) battery. Those are different batteries correct? And they also fit.
Personally, I would be ok with that path if:
- It was shown that those do not have safety concerns like the 70/85s
- They are brand new
- come with brand new warranty effective when I bought the car - 8 years, unlimited miles (this is tricky. do you want 70% guarantee or not)
- promises they will never again reduce capacity of the battery or range calculation to make it look better than it is. Range calculation changed b/c they improved efficiency, is ok, but has to be specifically shown. Terms would have to outline HEAVY penalties if such step is taken again and proven
- promise they will never again reduce or limit charge rates drastically for longevity of the battery or safety
- price for upgrade is <USD$2000 (hard limit, non negotiable, meaning it's not a starting point of negotiation to arrive at 5k) - remember, you are paying to get increased range, NOT to get a safer battery - that should be paid by Tesla! Possibly for 85s, upgrade contribution could be justified to be a bit higher but not over $3k.
- throw in an MCU2 (ok, ok, this is a negotiating element)
This list is long, and specific, and as we know there is a reason for that. We got burned left and right for believing this company, so yes, the terms have to be very specific, and this list is non-negotiable. I'm sure some of you can throw in other requirements, list is probably not complete, but they are hung up on cost and logistics nightmare, than this path can bi viable.
Keep in mind, I'm not suggesting this as a resolution, but rather saying that would be at a bare minimum what I would want if full replacement with a new and safe pack is not logistically possible.
So your car does not have chargegate? What about terrible zero REGEN at 50-60F each morning? I don't believe you could do the same trips (minus 5 percent) as you did when your car had v8 software. I waste 30% of my battery these days with BMS warming up my battery and lack of REGEN. Now I need to build a garage for it and keep it above 60F."Most". Sorry. No. Ours is 95% original range. This issue hasn't been quantified in this entire thread with factual evidence of the number of affected cars, and certainly not to the certainty of "most". I completely understand the frustration for those affected, but there are perhaps a large number of unaffected cars with owners not posting (like I am). Beware the false equivalent of thinking this forum thread represents a majority, or even a sizable percentage of owners.
I think it will boil down to who blinks first.
I've said before, and I'll say again: This lawsuit will not go to tria