Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[boywonder]

Supercharging is no doubt more detrimental to the battery than slower charge rates. The fact that Tesla has significantly reduced the charge speed of all older cars is proof of that.

FWIW, I believe that the Supercharging reduction and voltage cap is more about stopping thermal runaway than anything else.

That’s why your cooling pumps run for a long time after you finish charging when the weather is warm.

In my opinion, it looks like a direct response to the recent fires.

As a secondary discovery perhaps Tesla also identified damage caused to battery packs due to the higher charge rate profile which they then changed in the past few months to try to get packs over the 8 year warranty.

We really need to see what comes out in discovery. Hopefully we will finally start getting concrete answers and won’t have to speculate so much.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

Not sure they keep track of level of DC charging; just one bucket for DC counting I assume.

I think so. On TMSpy it just shows total charge of which X was DC and Y was AC. I don’t think the car breaks it down any further than that.

 

[Keshk]

I'm going to answer this as if it were a serious question and not internet snippiness, and I'm going to reframe slightly as "What does it matter what the nature of condition Z is?"
This matters because it has implications for what the eventual remedy might be, the outcome of the litigation, and even potentially Tesla's long-term viability as a company. If condition Z is a cell-level defect that was only in the original battery chemistry, we may expect the issues to remain confined to those cars, but the solution likely involves pack or module replacements. If it's a cell-level condition that's inherent to Li-ion batteries in general, then the problem may crop up in later builds as well. If it's a control systems issue, it's perhaps more possible that Tesla develops a real software fix that both mitigates the potential for any safety or longevity-related concerns. If it's erroneous sensors that do end up needing to be replaced, then it's potentially a pack teardown and remanufacture of each affected pack. Different problems = different effect on Tesla as a company and their willingness to fix the issue.

All that understood. You seem, however, to have a very trustworthy attitude of a company that is not even recognizing there is a problem and brush everyone who complains aside. Whatever the problem might be, you trust anything they will say? and do you think that they will accept or admit something that is completely under their control? Here, it seems the judge is the prosecutor and executor.

 

[davidc18]

My voltage is still 4.2 but supercharging is now so limited that it is now essentially useless for any out of town travel.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

My voltage is still 4.2 but supercharging is now so limited that it is now essentially useless for any out of town travel.

David you are a classic example of not affected by batterygate (this thread), but are affected by chargegate (not really this thread, but closely linked).

 

[SmartElectric]

My voltage is still 4.2 but supercharging is now so limited that it is now essentially useless for any out of town travel.

Hi, I posted a few weeks ago here that my super charging rates are approximately
Supercharging RATE in kW = (110 - SOC%) until 80% SOC, and then dropping considerably so 90-100% takes about an hour.

This on an original "A" pack 2013 Feb production battery with 97% original capacity. These rates haven't changed in 4.5 years and 100's of firmware version updates.

Curious what rates are you seeing?

 

[Ferrycraigs]

Hi, I posted a few weeks ago here that my super charging rates are approximately
Supercharging RATE in kW = (110 - SOC%) until 80% SOC, and then dropping considerably so 90-100% takes about an hour.

This on an original "A" pack 2013 Feb production battery with 97% original capacity. These rates haven't changed in 4.5 years and 100's of firmware version updates.

Curious what rates are you seeing?

My pre facelift S70 (350V battery) used to be 118-SoC%. Now, after chargegate, it varies.
20%= 65 kW
30%= 60 kW
40%= 55 kW
50%= 50 kW
60%= 45 kW
70%= 40 kW
80%= 35 kW

Not as easy, but at least it gives a ball park figure.

 

[Chaserr]

I dont and never said I did.

Since we've all seen that you did, this is more of your opposite truth. You do and you said you did! You've been asked to explain your insider relationship at Tesla many times, but you keep feeding us these opposite truth hints that you're aware of batterygate being caused by the BMS and that Tesla knows this is a warranty problem. Thanks for those opposite-verifications! But can you opposite verify your position at Tesla? Do you work directly for Tesla, or are you subcontracted?

Can you deny(confirm) any of the other recent allegations? Offer any new denials? Do you not have any access to Tesla's legal team? How close are they to capitulating to the NHTSA investigation? We expect that to move faster than the civil suits - can you deny that front as well?

 

[Chaserr]

These rates haven't changed in 4.5 years and 100's of firmware version updates.

You're the one that was saying your battery was throttled 4 years before everyone else's right? Do we know if you were software crippled years before most of us knew it was possible? Or if it's always been a hardware problem?I wonder if that means this defect has been present in every battery Tesla ever made, from the very beginning? If so, it's going to suck when the 250kW supercharging Model 3s get chargegated. There should be millions of them by then, Tesla won't be able to fight that many suits.

 

[bhzmark]

Since we've all seen that you did, this is more of your opposite truth. You do and you said you did! You've been asked to explain your insider relationship at Tesla many times, but you keep feeding us these opposite truth hints that you're aware of batterygate being caused by the BMS and that Tesla knows this is a warranty problem. Thanks for those opposite-verifications! But can you opposite verify your position at Tesla? Do you work directly for Tesla, or are you subcontracted?

Can you deny(confirm) any of the other recent allegations? Offer any new denials? Do you not have any access to Tesla's legal team? How close are they to capitulating to the NHTSA investigation? We expect that to move faster than the civil suits - can you deny that front as well?

Ok You found me out. I'm actually CIO of Tesla: Chief Irony Officer.

 

[Chaserr]

Now we know that much isn't true. Can you say other things so we can rule them out as false as well?

 

[cpa]

We really need to see what comes out in discovery. Hopefully we will finally start getting concrete answers and won’t have to speculate so much.

If this class action lawsuit is settled in the mediation process, there will not be any discovery that will be public. I am not sure as to the inner workings of such mediation. But common sense says that Tesla's lawyers will only offer up just enough information to DJRas' lawyers to arrive at a "reasonable" solution for the suit. Whatever hints of discovery that are proffered in mediation will be predicated by non-disclosure agreements signed by the plaintiffs and his attorneys.

Then, the usual, "Tesla does not confirm or deny that there are any defects or other manufacturing issues with its batteries and battery management system. We stand behind them. This settlement is purely the most expedient and least expensive approach to put this lawsuit behind us so we can continue to change the world one automobile at a time!"

Or, if we all get new batteries, the company line will be, "We are replacing all batteries affected by this situation out of an abundance of caution."

But we will then be left to speculate as to why Tesla settled in mediation and what the underlying issues still are.

And dollars to doughnuts, the batterygate issue is more likely to be settled in mediation while the chargegate issue is dropped, unless that pernicious software is still lurking in as yet unaffected batteries.

 

[mvotb]

Or, if we all get new batteries, the company line will be, "We are replacing all batteries affected by this situation out of an abundance of goodwill."

There I fixed that for ya.

 

[Droschke]

If this class action lawsuit is settled in the mediation process, there will not be any discovery that will be public. I am not sure as to the inner workings of such mediation. But common sense says that Tesla's lawyers will only offer up just enough information to DJRas' lawyers to arrive at a "reasonable" solution for the suit. Whatever hints of discovery that are proffered in mediation will be predicated by non-disclosure agreements signed by the plaintiffs and his attorneys.

Then, the usual, "Tesla does not confirm or deny that there are any defects or other manufacturing issues with its batteries and battery management system. We stand behind them. This settlement is purely the most expedient and least expensive approach to put this lawsuit behind us so we can continue to change the world one automobile at a time!"

Or, if we all get new batteries, the company line will be, "We are replacing all batteries affected by this situation out of an abundance of caution."

But we will then be left to speculate as to why Tesla settled in mediation and what the underlying issues still are.

And dollars to doughnuts, the batterygate issue is more likely to be settled in mediation while the chargegate issue is dropped, unless that pernicious software is still lurking in as yet unaffected batteries.

If the wishful thinking bears fruit (the batteries are replaced) without knowing the underlying issues, why should we think the chargegate issue will be dropped (by Tesla)? In other words, isn't the obvious reason behind chargegate to repress the underlying batterygate issues?

 

[Chaserr]

Ras has said several times no agreement will be reached that doesn't address chargegate. This isn't a negotiation Tesla is being held accountable.

 

[omarsultan]

Or maybe Tesla hopes that the owners of these older cars (of which I am one), which have free unlimited supercharging, get frustrated and stop supercharging.

It's working...

 

[gmo43]

It's working...

Not here even though it takes about 2 hours and never goes above 32 kw when supercharging.

 

[lightningltd]

It's working...

Nope. I PROUDLY use up a charge stall to slowly charge my car twice as often (or more) than I used to, and have it set to a higher ending charge out of protest and to get the same range I need as before for full round trips to work and back. When someone asks why so often, I tell them what Tesla did to myself and others.

Charge request to stop at 80% because the charger is busy? "Sorry guys. Thank Tesla. I need the range due to them stealing 16.05% of my battery without warning and slowing my charge rate by over 50%. I would ask Tesla why and if YOU will be affected in the future."

 

[AdamInFlag]

All that understood. You seem, however, to have a very trustworthy attitude of a company that is not even recognizing there is a problem and brush everyone who complains aside. Whatever the problem might be, you trust anything they will say? and do you think that they will accept or admit something that is completely under their control? Here, it seems the judge is the prosecutor and executor.

Not at all. My post was meant to offer a possible explanation about what the issue might actually be. Whatever the underlying issue actually is, it does not excuse Tesla's behavior in stonewalling owners, telling them that their batteries are just fine, and not giving any explanation and no recourse. I'm hopeful that this will all be settled appropriately in mediation, but not that we will ever get a satisfactory explanation or admission of any wrongdoing (as noted above by cpa). One year ago, I was all for Tesla and assumed our next car would be a Model X. Last week I talked a coworker out of buying one, based largely on this issue and also the supercharger congestion that has been happening recently. My wife and I almost bought a Hyundai Palisade this weekend, though eventually we realized it was just not the right time for us to get a new car. I'm hoping that by the time we do need another vehicle, that either (1) there are compelling alternatives to Tesla out there or (2) Tesla has re-earned my trust. I'm not particularly hopeful for #2.

 

[Keshk]

Not at all. My post was meant to offer a possible explanation about what the issue might actually be. Whatever the underlying issue actually is, it does not excuse Tesla's behavior in stonewalling owners, telling them that their batteries are just fine, and not giving any explanation and no recourse. I'm hopeful that this will all be settled appropriately in mediation, but not that we will ever get a satisfactory explanation or admission of any wrongdoing (as noted above by cpa). One year ago, I was all for Tesla and assumed our next car would be a Model X. Last week I talked a coworker out of buying one, based largely on this issue and also the supercharger congestion that has been happening recently. My wife and I almost bought a Hyundai Palisade this weekend, though eventually we realized it was just not the right time for us to get a new car. I'm hoping that by the time we do need another vehicle, that either (1) there are compelling alternatives to Tesla out there or (2) Tesla has re-earned my trust. I'm not particularly hopeful for #2.

I stopped recommending Tesla to anyone who asks me, and also went back and withdraw my recommendations to all whom I recommended it in the past. I just found your explanation and speculation about possible sources of the problem is academic, and futile, especially with a company that holds 100% of the cards (what difference it makes), and treat their loyal customers/consumers as bunch of idiots.