Stalk or no stalk argument [not] settled

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.

 

[drtimhill]

Except in a modern automatic you're typically changing gears when at a complete stop

So needing to "look" isn't a safety issue.

Not so turn signals.

Or lights, yet that isnt standardized. And as I noted some cars in Europe have the turn stalk on the right.

 

[dusty22]

Reminds me of the issues with unfamiiar passengers attempting to open the door for the first time. I have to run around to the other side of the car to show them how and then instruct them about using the button to exit.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Reminds me of the issues with unfamiiar passengers attempting to open the door for the first time. I have to run around to the other side of the car to show them how and then instruct them about using the button to exit.

Yes, it is odd that they chose to have two door open controls, instead of just the pull lever. They could have made the pull lever actuate the electrical window-lowering-and-door-unlatching with a light pull, and also link it to a mechanical backup unlatch mechanism with a harder pull, and not have a separate button.

Many first timers pull the lever first, since it seems more like what they see in other cars.

 

[SVMike]

It would take 30 seconds in the drive way for an occasional driver to re-famliarize themselves with signal activation. Sit in car, feel for raised line, activate right turn signal. Feel for raised line, deactivate right turn signal.

Logically knowing what to do and having automatic muscle memory just do it are two different things.
Now imagine the occasional driver has to drive at night on a congested freeway and has to signal to move over a couple of lanes.
It probably won't be a good experience...all to save, maybe $50 on a $50K+ car?

 

[zoomer0056]

Logically knowing what to do and having automatic muscle memory just do it are two different things.

That's the reason for taking the time to teach oneself how to use the controls. If one can not learn, nothing can be done for them.

 

[ks1972]

That's the reason for taking the time to teach oneself how to use the controls. If one can not learn, nothing can be done for them.

Or, do what a lot of people do and not buy the car without stalks.

 

[drtimhill]

Logically knowing what to do and having automatic muscle memory just do it are two different things.
Now imagine the occasional driver has to drive at night on a congested freeway and has to signal to move over a couple of lanes.
It probably won't be a good experience...all to save, maybe $50 on a $50K+ car?

So are you against one=pedal driving too?

 

[whitex]

So are you against one=pedal driving too?

I was fa big fan the one pedal driving of the Teslas for a decade I drove them. Switched to an EV with blended braking instead, and have to tell you, I actually prefer it. Maybe it's because the new EV can regen a lot harder than any Tesla (up to 280KW), but I think it's more because it simplifies the driving, when I want to slow down I hit the brake and don't need to hover my foot over the brake if I want to try to never use the mechanical brakes. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the one-pedal driving like I did the yoke on few test drives I had (never the Cybertruck steer-by-wire though), just find the blended braking more to my liking. To be fair, I do have slight regen turned on linked to the accelerator, which makes it easier to keep to precise speeds, but that regen is very light compared to Tesla. Also, in slippery conditions I always had to remember to turn regen off on my Teslas as it would occasionally cause oversteer (especially on the RWD Model S) - not an issue with blended braking.

 

[zoomer0056]

in slippery conditions I always had to remember to turn regen off on my Teslas as it would occasionally cause oversteer

How can braking cause oversteer, what is oversteer?

 

[Knightshade]

How can braking cause oversteer, what is oversteer?

A Guide to Oversteer - be faster using oversteer the right way

This video tutorial examines what is oversteer, how to control, how to use oversteer to be faster on track and changing setup to improve your track car.

driver61.com

 

[zoomer0056]

A Guide to Oversteer - be faster using oversteer the right way

This video tutorial examines what is oversteer, how to control, how to use oversteer to be faster on track and changing setup to improve your track car.

driver61.com

I could have Google that, lazy. I learned something today ... can I go home now?

 

[SVMike]

So are you against one=pedal driving too?

No, I love it.
But you can chose to use it or not. If you must switch drivers you can change it.
You can even setup a guest profile with it off

You can't add a stalk when a friend or family member needs to unexpectedly drive the car because of an emergency (like their car is damage or someone bringing their car was delayed) None of this is the end of the world, but it is like going to the UK and not planning to drive a right hand drive car, then suddenly you have to with no practice. IT is very difficult. I had to do it once.

 

[WyoDude]

But you can chose to use it or not. If you must switch drivers you can change it.
You can even setup a guest profile with it off

You’ve never been able to turn regen off. And adjusting regen hasn’t been a thing for a couple years.

 

[zoomer0056]

No, I love it.
But you can chose to use it or not. If you must switch drivers you can change it.
You can even setup a guest profile with it off

You can't add a stalk when a friend or family member needs to unexpectedly drive the car because of an emergency (like their car is damage or someone bringing their car was delayed) None of this is the end of the world, but it is like going to the UK and not planning to drive a right hand drive car, then suddenly you have to with no practice. IT is very difficult. I had to do it once.

What year/model is your car that you can adjust/turn off regen?

 

[stopcrazypp]

No, I love it.
But you can chose to use it or not. If you must switch drivers you can change it.
You can even setup a guest profile with it off

In the later models and updates you can no longer adjust this, so it's the same thing.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

@WyoDude is correct. Other than the "track mode" exception, Teslas built after the 2021 refresh do not have a "low regen" option.

But back on topic, why are people so focused on the turn signals? Yeah, they're bad, but remember Tesla's old stalk is flakey af and the signals hardly ever work anyway. So, to some degree, this change to buttons is more of a step sideways.

What about the *really* important safety features which are completely obliterated by the stalkless system - like headlights and windshield wipers? How are you supposed to warn someone not to pull out in front of you? Or recover from some blinding spray on the windshield? Voice control? Read the owner's manual to figure out where the tiny buttons are hidden? I'm 30k miles into my 3 and I still sometimes confuse the L/R scroll wheels - there's no way in hell I'd be able to remember where the damn headlight button is in a split second of terror.

 

[zoomer0056]

there's no way in hell I'd be able to remember where the damn headlight button is in a split second of terror.

Use these to locate them by feel alone.

 

[Videomatic3]

Use these to locate them by feel alone.View attachment 1026220View attachment 1026222

this is a great solution, im pretty sure id be 1000x happier with this. have you tried it and does it block the ability to use the touch screen?

on another note since it looks the same as the other buttons, i thought the cruise control/self driving button wasnt working because the other 3 were buttons, i really liked the fact they turned pressing that scrolling button in to turn on self driving instead of voice talk. i never use the voice talk feature.

 

[zoomer0056]

have you tried it and does it block the ability to use the touch screen?

That's a pic of my 2022 MSLR. The button works as if the piece was not there. Because it's clear, you can see it's back light. I took this pic at the time of posting so the clearer raised sticker is just over two years old now.

 

[zoomer0056]

i never use the voice talk feature

Oh man, you're missing out. So much can be done with voice command. Try: tire pressure, set temp to 72, call wife, open butt hole ... ha, that's Elon and my sense of humor. Try: play Metalica, energy app ..... man ... you're missin' out big time. Or should I say biggly!