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Some new data from research on Tesla model 3 cells

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There has recently been released a series of new research reports containing tests on Tesla Model 3 Cells (Panasonic 2170 NCA).
This is the calendar aging test from one of them (25C, 15, 50 and 85% SOC. Checkup once a month):
Using the datapoints from these and putting them in the old charts I ususally post, these match the olds ones quite good. As there is only three points, it do not show the real form of the curve, but all three points match the usual graphs.
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For the cyclic tests, they did use rather high currents, not really respresentative to normal EV use. (To the researchers defense, the currents used is sort of the most EV-battery manufacturers current in the specifications but still not close to the regulkar EV usage).
Charged with 0.33C which would match about a 25kW DC charger, or double to four times the usual rate EV owners use mostly. Probably not offsetting the result much, but to be clear this is how it was done.

Discharged with 1C, which would be 78kW, about enough to drive constant at 200kph. This is way above the average power used from a regular EV. Driving at higway speeds at 120kph/80mph or so, we normally use like 1/4 of that power.
The average car often has a average speed longterm of about 50-60kph, meaning we often use 1/8-1/4 of the power in these cyclic tests.
From other tests we can se that lower power reduce the wear, the degradation often reduces to somewhere down to 0.5-0.7C.

In this report the author was a bit surprised over the increased wear at 5-15% SOC and 15-25% SOC. I would say that it it a very high probability of that this is induced by the 1C discharge rate, and that our normal power rates used IRL would make this look different. This is nothing I can promise but from several other research tests we can see that there ususally is a tendency to slightly increase the cyclic degradation at the lowest SOC ranges.

According to this chart, the best cycling range is 55 % down to 35%( see note below about true SOC).

Note: These are “True SOC”. 0% in this chart is where the car already has stopped, and 5% in-chart is about 0% displayed and 55% in-chart is is about 57% displayed.
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As I said above, there is a high probability that the low SOC range wear much less with a lower C-rate. Anyway, due to the high impact of calendar aging we most certainly benefit from staying low in SOC.

For the first two years, we would loose about 9-9.5% from calendar aging if staying at high SOC.
During these two years, if we drive 15-20K km annually (10-15Kmiles), and stay in the very low regime cycling (5-25% true SOC, thats 0-20% displayed SOC) we would loose about 1% from ~ 75-100 FCE cycles during these two years/30-40K km.

IRL its not possible to stay that low in SOC without actively stopping the charging, as 50% is the lowest setting (but for reference to low /high SOC).

To reach the same level of cyclic degradation from low SOC cycling according to the chart we would need about 700FCE, or about 280K km, but that is not really possible to do and at the same time stay at 5-25% SOC.

So, a car charged to 80-90%, and used as most EV’s is used, will mostly be above 55% SOC and have a calendar aging close to the 85% graph.
After two years, it will be around 10% degradation if the average cell temp is about 25C.

If the car was charged to 50-55% it would have a calendar aging around 6%, and the cyclic aging would be half the high SOC car, so more or less negligeble.

Link to one report

[Edit]For what its worth, if someone is worried about the low SOC below 20% (I am not, but I’m aware of the classic forum rumors), charging to 50-55% and charging for the daily drives at or above 20% (not talking longer traveling here) all aspect of this report if ticked-in-the-box.

I will not change any of my charging behavior because of this report. There is from time to time small differences in the reports and usually the reason for that can be found by thorougly comparing with other tests. We need much more than one report to state a “fact”.
 
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I'm very curious how Tessie is a "big issue", "very often wrong, more wrong than right" and "very confusing [to] people".

Here’s a few examples from the same Facebook thread from this night. The number of posts with wrong original numbers and appearent low degradation is high.

There is litterally hundreds of similar threads.

Guy in this post has 143K km om his 2020LR, and supercharge regularly once a week.
He thinks his degradation looks resonable, at 11.2%

But the original capacity was at least 77.8 kWh, so he’s actually at ~ 14%.
The wrong 75.4kWh initial value doeant help the owner in any way.
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In the same thread, 2020 LR, 150K km
Nice low degradation at 3.7%
The real value is 9%.

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2019 performance, 70K km.

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2020LR 45K km.
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In this thread a fewactuamku started to womder why the initual value differ, hsving the same battery type/size.

In most threads the owners arw very happy with the 3-5% degradation (which is not true).

Facebook link
 
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In this thread a fewactuamku started to womder why the initual value differ, hsving the same battery type/size.
That thread is private so I can't see it, but an important thing to know is that people often set their own initial value, and that Tesla can sometimes set the firmware labeling wrong on some cars (e.g. battery config B will be labeled as battery config A.)

That is why it would differ between 2 of the same exact car - it is the only way for the numbers to differ.

In some of these cases, they would want to follow these app instructions to correct their capacity:

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The SMT capacity when new value is a hardcoded plug number. I also know in the case of my particular 2022 M3 LRAWD which I have data on from the beginning of the new vehicle ownership, that it never had a nominal full pack of 82.1 KwH. Therefore pick the number you want, but the SMT full pack when new is not accurate in all cases either.
 
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That is why it would differ between 2 of the same exact car - it is the only way for the numbers to differ.
Ok, I thought it was the app that did set that initial value.
In some of these cases, they would want to follow these app instructions to correct their capacity:

View attachment 1016348
How do Tessie handle the initial capacity if a owner get Tessie for example one year from the car was new?
 
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The SMT capacity when new value is a hardcoded plug number. I also know in the case of my particular 2022 M3 LRAWD which I have data on from the beginning of the new vehicle ownership, that it never had a nominal full pack of 82.1 KwH. Therefore pick the number you want, but the SMT full pack when new is not accurate in all cases either.
The full pack when new is often very close to the energy delivered in the EPA tests.

But of course, degradation starts early so a couple of months from the build date the capacity probably is lower than the new value.
 
Ok, I thought it was the app that did set that initial value.

How do Tessie handle the initial capacity if a owner get Tessie for example one year from the car was new?
The app provides an initial value if the user doesn't have one, like if they download the app one year after buying the car (initial value is the initial value of the same cars when delivered as a best guess.)
 
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The full pack when new is often very close to the energy delivered in the EPA tests.

But of course, degradation starts early so a couple of months from the build date the capacity probably is lower than the new value.
This is pretty much my point, the theoretical degradation value isn't as important as the rate of degradation after the vehicle is in service and affected by individual charging habits. I personally use the average of the nominal full pack on values that showed a full rated range. I set that value as the initial capacity value. Of course this only works when you have the data from new
If an owner doesn't have that data then they're going to need to do an extrapolation, but it's not necessarily the "full pack when new" value from SMT.
 
The app provides an initial value if the user doesn't have one, like if they download the app one year after buying the car (initial value is the initial value of the same cars when delivered as a best guess.)
I asked in the thread and the answer from a 2020 LR owner with 75.5kWh inside the Tessie meter said he did not change that number.
The degradation from the full pack when new and the EPA test delivered energy number is almost double as high as the number Tessie shows.
 
The app provides an initial value if the user doesn't have one, like if they download the app one year after buying the car (initial value is the initial value of the same cars when delivered as a best guess.)
I started using Tessie 6 months after buying my Feb 2022 MSLR. I never set the capacity number. To get that correct would've required extensive research, testing and too much time out of my life. And it would always be a number in question. Not worth my time. I deferred to Tessie's best guess. The current degredation may or may not be accurate. More important to me is the trend.
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I started using Tessie 6 months after buying my Feb 2022 MSLR. I never set the capacity number. To get that correct would've required extensive research, testing and too much time out of my life.

That battery delivered 98.3 kWh in the MSLR EPA test, and 99.2/99.4 in the Plaid.
(Same 99.4 kWh Full Pack When New in both cars).

My Plaid started with low BMS capacity number, 95.7kWh but increased to 98.4kWh during the first month.

A resonable “low” ijitial number would be 98-98.3kWh.

99.4 kWh would be the formal correct as the battery probably could deliver around this amount of energy when new.
 
I started using Tessie 6 months after buying my Feb 2022 MSLR. I never set the capacity number. To get that correct would've required extensive research, testing and too much time out of my life. And it would always be a number in question. Not worth my time. I deferred to Tessie's best guess. The current degredation may or may not be accurate. More important to me is the trend.View attachment 1016496
As discussed earlier, your value is the degradation threshold. Tessie’s estimates are hard limited by that threshold and it looks like that is the value programmed for your car. Many vehicles will start a few kWh above that (typically, and per EPA test).

So your starting point is where you started losing displayed range (but many vehicles won’t lose range for a bit since they start above the threshold).
 
I have this exact Model X and did a full charge_energy_added measurement on day 1 from the factory:

Odometer: 5.4mi
Capacity: 96.2 kWh
Degradation: 0%
Service mode degradation: 0%

We have 13,740 other charge_energy_added readings that confirm this measurement - worst case being 96.06, best case being 96.26.

So it appears it's 13,741 different readings from the car in the real-world that say 96.2 kWh vs. the 1 EPA specification that says 100 kWh. How is it possible that 10,000+ cars are wrong? Or is charge_energy_added wrong? Or is the EPA wrong? The answer has to be here somewhere.

As it seems, the BMS comes ”off” from the factory. Starts at around 96kWh but the real capacity is better.

During the time when my BMS said 95.7 to 96kWh nominal full pack, I measured the exact SOC and delivered energy on a couple of longer drives. (I had a 1000 km drive home from delivery, then mounted SMT and then made that capacity test when driving to work ). My battery’s capacity was around 98-98.3kWh at that point. In one month, the BMS also adjusted to 98.3-98.4kWh, so the nominal capacity and the capacity test shows the same.

The delivered energy from trip screen divided by exact SOC change during a longer drive (SOC taken after a short sleep before the drive, and also after a short sleep after the drive) will be a good indicator of the capacity in form of deliverable energy. We can not drive to fast as higher power means higher losses, so 55 mph or so should be ok.

As Tesla calculate the added energy displayed on the screen by using added km’s (to make a the explanation easy) the added energy from 0-100% displayed SOC will be dependant on the BMS capacity estimate and not the real capacity.

So I guess when the BMS is off, Tessie will be infected by the BMS being off.
 
For all 3/Y and all new S/X the range at 100% includes the buffer.
The EPA test includes driving up the whole batt from 100% until the car stops.
The cars display it the same way.

The car calculates the range with the whole battery including the buffer, but then the buffer is progressively hidden from 100% to 0% displayed.
Therefore the energy graph calc includes the whole battery capacity including the buffer.
With a model 3 is it reasonably acceptable to estimate the 'energy & miles at rated efficiency at full pack' (and so track degradation without charging to 100% physically) by dividing the miles estimate by the SOC estimate, even at an intermediate SOC, like displayed 50%?
 
With a model 3 is it reasonably acceptable to estimate the 'energy & miles at rated efficiency at full pack' (and so track degradation without charging to 100% physically) by dividing the miles estimate by the SOC estimate, even at an intermediate SOC, like displayed 50%?
Yes. If you are above the degradation threshold that value will act as a ceiling which also caps the miles (by inflating their energy content, capping them in quantity), but it is largely an academic point.
 
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With a model 3 is it reasonably acceptable to estimate the 'energy & miles at rated efficiency at full pack' (and so track degradation without charging to 100% physically) by dividing the miles estimate by the SOC estimate, even at an intermediate SOC, like displayed 50%?
Yes. If you are above the degradation threshold that value will act as a ceiling which also caps the miles (by inflating their energy content, capping them in quantity), but it is largely an academic point.
Yes, and at 50% the rounding error gives a 1% fault margin, which would be ok.
 
Which to me implies the calendar aging in LFP and NC[M]A are similar as they have a similar graphite anode. The difference in max voltage though might make some difference.
I most often try to keep out of the mechanics behind, and mostly focus on what happens, and not digging in the why too deep.

But in this case,
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Peter Keil & Co has found the relationship between potential and calendar aging.
High potential - low calendar aging.

For the graphite anode itself, I do not know if it has anything to with the rate of the SEI build up. It do mot seem to even affect the capacity loss.

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I most often try to keep out of the mechanics behind, and mostly focus on what happens, and not digging in the why too deep.

But in this ca

For the graphite anode itself, I do not know if it has anything to with the rate of the SEI build up. It do mot seem to even affect the capacity loss.

View attachment 1019051
I suspect that 'graphite degradation' (I presume structural degradation, like cathode damage that lowers capacity) is not the same as SEI build up. And that the capacity loss from SEI build up is as simple as more lithium gets immobilized permanently and can't move back and forth to store energy.
 
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