Software Update 2018.21.9 75bdbc11

[boonedocks]

I agree, that this change was likely precipitated by inattentive drivers and NTSB advising Tesla to increase warning frequency. However, if the visual warnings are not visible based on your body height / seat position, it's a problem.

I posted earlier today in response to @boonedocks video. This video is troublesome because hands-on-wheel detection appears to be functioning improperly. I asserted in that comment that I'm worried about lawsuits from accidents where the logs are used against owners. Since I posted that, I've actually had second thoughts about it. As drivers, we are 100% responsible for the vehicle regardless if it is in autopilot mode or not. If I get in an accident and Tesla's logs claim that my hands weren't on the wheel, it doesn't matter. If I'm at fault, I'm at fault.

The crux of the matter is, up and until FSD comes out, the driver will be at fault in any accident. The Nags are just to double cover Tesla in the public light in case a finger even gets waved in their direction.

 

[clostridium]

Huh? Considering that the sensor is torque based, it seems to be working as intended. What about resting your one hand on one side of the steering wheel so that there is some constant torque (á la "orange trick")? The net rotational torque on the axis of the steering wheel is zero if both hands rest equally on opposite sides.

Again, you're telling us to change our driving style to something unnatural compared to what we've done for 30 years. That's all our complaint is: some of us DO keep both hands on the steering wheel as the manual stipulates and it still does NOT register us being there. Now if the comments about it being more sensitive this release are true then hopefully it'll magically detect us that use both hands but don't apply continuous torque away from a straight line. An actual touch sensor in the steering wheel would have seen us holding the wheel 100% of the time, but there is no way this feature will be retrofitted. Time will tell whether the more sensitive torque detection is enough.

I’m with you - I prefer both hands on the wheel at 9 and 3 and when I do that it’s not always easy to have auto steer to sense my hands. I find myself getting achy arms trying to keep torque on the wheel so it will sense me but not too much so you get the jerky disconnect swerve happening.

I’ve gotten more used to it and get less warnings now over time but it still warns me at times despite having both hands on. I have visions of being one of those crash stories where tesla pulls the logs and tells everyone I didn’t have my hands on the wheel even though I did.

I’m hopeful that this release will help with the issues. I’m all for the car forcing hands on the wheel and nagging more often. I just wish it wouldn’t require people to change how they hold the wheel. The current method actually encourages people to hold the wheel less safely than the two hand method so you can get less nags.

 

[sillydriver]

After following this thread since I installed 2018.21.9 in my AP1 car Friday I finally gave it a try on I-66 and am very relieved! There were zero nags going 15 miles each way at high speed with light traffic. While AP is on I keep my right elbow on the armrest and hold the wheel at the bottom of the right spoke. This allows me to exert a small continuous upward (or downward) pressure on the wheel, while following sweeping turns on the interstate by flexing my wrist. I've always held the wheel this way with AP on, and in the past I would often get a nag on this particular trip, probably because the pressure wasn't enough. I hold the wheel in this way so that my hand position is different than when driving manually, which is two hands at 10 and 3. I want to hold the wheel differently since on most trips I go in and out of AP. I don't trust it and drive manually through any situations that are not completely straightforward: e.g. areas with many cars merging, lane shifts due to construction, lane drops. I use different hand positions so I don't lose track of whether AP is on or off. On today's test trip I kept AP on the whole time each way.

So there is more sensitivity to the torque detector, although I don't feel any of the play or looseness in the steering that other people have mentioned (my steering is set on 'sport'). Reading other posts I was beginning to fear that 21.9 would be useless because of nags, but it isn't in my car.

 

[mkspeedr]

After following this thread since I installed 2018.21.9 in my AP1 car Friday I finally gave it a try on I-66 and am very relieved! There were zero nags going 15 miles each way at high speed with light traffic. While AP is on I keep my right elbow on the armrest and hold the wheel at the bottom of the right spoke. This allows me to exert a small continuous upward (or downward) pressure on the wheel, while following sweeping turns on the interstate by flexing my wrist. I've always held the wheel this way with AP on, and in the past I would often get a nag on this particular trip, probably because the pressure wasn't enough. I hold the wheel in this way so that my hand position is different than when driving manually, which is two hands at 10 and 3. I want to hold the wheel differently since on most trips I go in and out of AP. I don't trust it and drive manually through any situations that are not completely straightforward: e.g. areas with many cars merging, lane shifts due to construction, lane drops. I use different hand positions so I don't lose track of whether AP is on or off. On today's test trip I kept AP on the whole time each way.

So there is more sensitivity to the torque detector, although I don't feel any of the play or looseness in the steering that other people have mentioned (my steering is set on 'sport'). Reading other posts I was beginning to fear that 21.9 would be useless because of nags, but it isn't in my car.

Ok - I wonder if there is something driving the difference? It seems to me like their are two camps. More nag and the same. Hmmm

 

[MIT_S60]

The crux of the matter is, up and until FSD comes out, the driver will be at fault in any accident. The Nags are just to double cover Tesla in the public light in case a finger even gets waved in their direction.

Cool, so since I'm at fault in any accident anyways, then let me sign a waver saying I accept full responsibility of my actions and let me opt out of all nags.

 

[pdxgibby]

Cool, so since I'm at fault in any accident anyways, then let me sign a waver saying I accept full responsibility of my actions and let me opt out of all nags.

This.

Didn't we agree to the terms of the BETA agreement of auto steer when we enabled it on our car. Didn't the language of it already remove any liability from Tesla. By this argument, there shouldn't be any nag necessary. The driver is 100% responsible always. If Tesla is covered by the BETA agreement, and the instructions that pop up on the dash when it is enabled -- then why do we need nags at all?

 

[clostridium]

I use percentage on my 75d and the math is pretty simple - 2.5 miles per percent in warm weather gives me a nice cushion and 2 miles per percent is ok in all but the crappiest conditions in winter. Then I go with 1.5 miles per percent.

It’s all academic anyways since the cars calculations on the center screen are usually what I use unless I know my efficiency will change dramatically.

I suppose if I lived in a place where the cars performance was near ideal all the time I’d use the miles display.

I've switched back and forth a couple of times, but much prefer percentage. Range is always visible on the graph screen anyway. With the 100D it's a simple calculation anyway. Multiply 1/10 of the percentage by 30 and that's your safe range.

45% is 135 safe miles of range. 45*.1*30 or just 45 * 3 if that's easier to do in your head.

 

[verygreen]

Agreed - the update was over 1GB in size and they're pushing it over LTE which means there's SOMETHING big in it, plus they're obviously eager for all to have it (even though my AP2 S60 on WiFi hasn't yet gotten it!). I'd bet there are some hidden FSD test features in there, not for us but for rather for them to test (and for @BigD0g and @verygreen to hack and uncover)!

there's nothing big in it, sorry.

Basically they updated compression settings (as images were getting too big), and as the result the "diff"erence between old and new image became bigger than their threshold and the system decided to just serve you the entire image instead of just the patch.

 

[sillydriver]

Ok - I wonder if there is something driving the difference? It seems to me like their are two camps. More nag and the same. Hmmm

Well my elbow is braced, so I can apply a little steady upward pressure, or downward pressure with the help of gravity on my arm, without my getting tired. And my grip is with one hand, so it's not two hands with symmetrical or offsetting forces that might not be detected.

I definitely don't feel I lose any safety using a one-hand grip. There have been may times I have reacted to a questionable twitch in the wheel by instantly breaking out of AP. Also, there have been times where AP suddenly chimes off and then I realize I just broke out of it by unconsciously steering within the lane, for example when AP is holding the center but a truck is encroaching from the right.

 

[mkspeedr]

Well my elbow is braced, so I can apply a little steady upward pressure, or downward pressure with the help of gravity on my arm, without my getting tired. And my grip is with one hand, so it's not two hands with symmetrical or offsetting forces that might not be detected.

I definitely don't feel I lose any safety using a one-hand grip. There have been may times I have reacted to a questionable twitch in the wheel by instantly breaking out of AP. Also, there have been times where AP suddenly chimes off and then I realize I just broke out of it by unconsciously steering within the lane, for example when AP is holding the center but a truck is encroaching from the right.

Sorry - didn't mean human difference. I meant hardware.

 

[Lawsteve]

This.

Didn't we agree to the terms of the BETA agreement of auto steer when we enabled it on our car. Didn't the language of it already remove any liability from Tesla. By this argument, there shouldn't be any nag necessary. The driver is 100% responsible always. If Tesla is covered by the BETA agreement, and the instructions that pop up on the dash when it is enabled -- then why do we need nags at all?

I agree with you, but unfortunately you would hear 2 answers to this:

1. You can agree to accept the risks of not holding the wheel, but our government/society deems a self-steering car to be too risky for the innocent 3rd parties your car hits while you elect to not hold the wheel; and

2. Because of 1 above, the injured 3rd party will seek to hold Tesla responsible for putting such an “obviously dangerous” system in your hands. The disclaimer will protect them from claims by you or your family, but will not necessarily protect them from claims by injured third parties.

 

[sillydriver]

Sorry - didn't mean human difference. I meant hardware.

No offense taken. But it could be that the asymmetrical one-handed technique is better for a torque sensing wheel.

 

[Zorg]

What's new with AP1?

 

[croman]

What's new with AP1?

Nags.

 

[Joelgjr]

Ah, got it. Sorry. Maybe it was the Boston accent that I misunderstood.




So I see you’re relatively new. Perhaps it was accidental. Just wasn’t sure why that post had anything worth disagreeing with. If you view the post I linked to above, then select “list” you’ll see that you hit disagree (the thumbs down icon), from what you said here no doubt accidentally. No harm done, just thought you were against horse racing, or perhaps my calling them nags.

Hey bud - yes I definitely didn’t know what those “like” buttons actually did (not part of Facebook). Probably clicked one by accident. I don’t even remember reading anything about horses haha

 

[BozieBeMe2]

What's new with AP1?

We installed the new firmware:
8.1 (18.219 75bdbc11) 2015-AP1
Mobil connector information, Previous Release Notes.
Lists each plug complete with pictures
Accessing The Owner's Manual, Introducing New Navigation (Beta)
The navigation maps are more gray scale and the 'voice' is slower and clearer. If you input an address that can have more than one destination, think a business complex, you are given a selection screen that is low resolution and caused me to wonder "why the mapping wasn't running already". DUH
The drivers info screen, behind the steering wheel. is very spartan and consists of just the 'Blue' navigation trail, with pop up balloon street tags
Adds display of cars in the neighboring lanes and changed AP nag behavior.
We use to have these 'toy cars', in past firmwares, glad they are back, especially the car that you are following is Blue
White bar at the top of the screen, Hold the Steering Wheel, Nag Screen
From what we can tell, the nag screen wasn't all that much different but it does 'Beep' at you if you leave the warning on the screen too long (but we never let it default to the White Bar and finally, off)

As to the AP, it does appear to be more certain, but does have the new driver type of nervousness.
Stays in the center of the lane but does numerous corrections.
Does not have Semi Lust, but still does not have the Cross Traffic Warning.
AP still doesn't slow down and turn into the exit lane ( this was promised to AP1 Yrs ago),
must be using a Navigated Destination.
AP still does a good job of warning you if you approach a stopped car too aggressively, by tone and warning on the dash
The mapping does allow for some 'speed limit' signage, so the car can slow down or change speed limit.
I really don't think this is a vision thing, just map vectoring.
Lane changes do seem more aggressive, speed up from traffic slowing is more rapid.
If I let the car follow, in traffic, to a complete stop,, I NEVER had to press the accelerator to resume.
I can see the logic, if AP wanted me to certify the resume, but it didn't.
It is now easier to tug the steering wheel to disengage the AP, fighting chuck holes
I also noticed that this new version did not cure the 'Locked Up Backup Camera' issue, BAH!
I did not try out all of the media functions. But, this version does restore the -Volume to 12- settings and the 'Audio Book' play back features appear to have helped the volume settings some what. You set the Android volume up to high and the Tesla volume to medium. That way when you switch back to the radio features, the volume doesn't blast you.
As they say YMMV

 

[BigD0g]

Man, they must really want this firmware out even sent it to my car over LTE and I don’t typically get firmwares from tesla at all since the blacklist... they really want these cya nags on all cars...

 

[markn455]

Does it show motorcycles and trucks as different avatars now?

No, everything looks like invasions of the little Teslas.

 

[chillaban]

Man, they must really want this firmware out even sent it to my car over LTE and I don’t typically get firmwares from tesla at all since the blacklist... they really want these cya nags on all cars...

Did we determine if 21.9 has any NN changes? I know the earlier EAP builds did not.

 

[BigD0g]

Man, they must really want this firmware out even sent it to my car over LTE and I don’t typically get firmwares from tesla at all since the blacklist... they really want these cya nags on all cars...

Sorry this is a lie, it came down over WiFi.