Sigs not compatible with battery swap

[apacheguy]

I've looked and can't find anything to support that (but the internet is a vast place).

2011: Tesla Gigaom

Tesla has designed its second electric car, the Model S, to have a battery that can be quickly taken out and swapped with a new one, with the idea that if battery swapping becomes common for electric car drivers one day, the Model S will be prepared, explained Tesla CTO JB Straubel at a tour of Tesla’s Model S Alpha Build room on Thursday. Think of it as Tesla hedging its bets on whether battery swapping will become popular one day or not.

 

[dsm363]

Tesla hadn't designed their own swap stations yet. It's entirely possible they discovered something wrong with their initial implementation of the early VINs that makes it not compatible with their planned swap stations. Either way it looks like swap stations won't happen. You happen to be in the one area where you might have been able to use the one that exists but with Supercharging is this really a big concern?

 

[JakeP]

I am guessing this means that Sigs and very early VINs might also not actually be allowed to upgrade to the 90kWh battery, due to technical/engineering differences and limitations? Or is this specific to the actual swapping action, and placement of bolts and such? In other words, a manual battery upgrade is easily accommodated, but an automated/robotic swap is not?

 

[yobigd20]

if you really want to give Tesla your business, trade up to a new S. In addition to giving them business, you'll get all the fancy doodads that you don't have now like dual motors, parking sensors, autopilot, TACC, 90kW battery pack, heated wipers and steering wheel, power folding mirrors, blind spot warnings, automatic emergency braking, self parking, automatic high/low beam lights, lane departure warning, and faster supercharging and ability to battery swap. oh and ludicrous mode if you really want that too.

 

[cryptyk]

Nothing to add, but I feel bad for the Sig owners. It feels like they should be rewarded somehow for their early adopter status, but instead they seem to get the short end every time.

:/

 

[apacheguy]

Tesla hadn't designed their own swap stations yet. It's entirely possible they discovered something wrong with their initial implementation of the early VINs that makes it not compatible with their planned swap stations. Either way it looks like swap stations won't happen. You happen to be in the one area where you might have been able to use the one that exists but with Supercharging is this really a big concern?

Yeah, I could definitely use it. And I'm happy to pay $80 most times I'm going up the 5.

if you really want to give Tesla your business, trade up to a new S.

Not practical for a number of reasons, not the least of which is when I buy a nice car I tend to keep it more than 3 years.

 

[dsm363]

I am guessing this means that Sigs and very early VINs might also not actually be allowed to upgrade to the 90kWh battery, due to technical/engineering differences and limitations? Or is this specific to the actual swapping action, and placement of bolts and such? In other words, a manual battery upgrade is easily accommodated, but an automated/robotic swap is not?

I assume it means that Sigs can get upgraded to new battery packs (just like you can get your pack swapped out now if something wrong) but only at service centers. A manual upgrade is easily done as they do that already.

 

[mknox]

I assume it means that Sigs can get upgraded to new battery packs (just like you can get your pack swapped out now if something wrong) but only at service centers. A manual upgrade is easily done as they do that already.

I wonder if this is a Sig thing, an A-pack thing or some early design thing? I can't see there being much difference between a Sig with an A-pack and my early Production car with an A-pack.

 

[AnOutsider]

if you really want to give Tesla your business, trade up to a new S. In addition to giving them business, you'll get all the fancy doodads that you don't have now like dual motors, parking sensors, autopilot, TACC, 90kW battery pack, heated wipers and steering wheel, power folding mirrors, blind spot warnings, automatic emergency braking, self parking, automatic high/low beam lights, lane departure warning, and faster supercharging and ability to battery swap. oh and ludicrous mode if you really want that too.

I find this statement pretty dismissive. Hey, thanks to you and Roadster owners paving the way! In return we'll overcharge you, skip out on our promises and, if you're still around after all of that, will take your money again for new stuff that won't deliver on things as-promised!

Nothing to add, but I feel bad for the Sig owners. It feels like they should be rewarded somehow for their early adopter status, but instead they seem to get the short end every time.

:/

Indeed. Curious to see how they handle the X.

 

[jeffro01]

Nothing to add, but I feel bad for the Sig owners. It feels like they should be rewarded somehow for their early adopter status, but instead they seem to get the short end every time.

:/

I'll tread lightly here as I see both sides of this coin. I don't see it as Signature owners are getting treated unfairly or anything like that, they bought the best (and first) Model S's available to purchase at the time they took delivery. They took delivery knowing full well (from what I can remember) that the car would be constantly improved and changed\updated. If anything the main gripe I'd have if I were a Signature holder is all of the half-promises made about future upgrades and retrofitting that proved to be impractical, expensive, and not financially viable from Tesla to follow through with. People who insist on holding Tesla directly to their word with the most literal interpretation possible are going to continue to be disappointed and upset when the reality doesn't live up to the hype. I see this as a maturing car company understanding it's limitations and having growing pains as a result. Things have gotten better, communication has gotten better, but still from time to time Tesla\Elon says something or infers something that ends up not being fully accurate or true. I don't see these things as intentional or deceptive in any way, I truly believe Tesla\Elon intends to deliver exactly what they sudo promise but run into engineering\financial hurdles that weren't expected and only experience would help them temper their messages a bit. Experience though, only comes with learning from your mistakes.

As more cars are sold, and the Model X is revealed etc..., Tesla is going to continue to widen their customer types and personalities. As such, more and more people who aren't early adopters are going to buy these cars and are going to be a bit taken back by some things even while they are being improved. This is the nature of a grown company like Tesla. That's why I just sit here and chuckle a bit at some of the threads that are popular these days such as the autopilot\V7 software thats "late" depending on your position, perspective, and personality type. In the end what really matters is are the cars safe? Are you getting what you ordered? Is Tesla reasonably handling any post delivery issues? For the vast majority of people it would appear that you can say Yes to all three of those things. I think that's a good foundation to build from even if a wall has to be rebuilt from time to time.

Jeff

 

[stevezzzz]

It would be very interesting to know the engineering reasons behind Tesla's demurral on battery swaps for early VINs. I know some early Sigs have received B packs when their A packs failed (usually due to the contactors opening) in the days before SCs were equipped and trained to open and repair packs locally, so I suspect it's not a mechanical mounting incompatibility.

 

[dsm363]

I'll tread lightly here as I see both sides of this coin. I don't see it as Signature owners are getting treated unfairly or anything like that, they bought the best (and first) Model S's available to purchase at the time they took delivery. They took delivery knowing full well (from what I can remember) that the car would be constantly improved and changed\updated. If anything the main gripe I'd have if I were a Signature holder is all of the half-promises made about future upgrades and retrofitting that proved to be impractical, expensive, and not financially viable from Tesla to follow through with. People who insist on holding Tesla directly to their word with the most literal interpretation possible are going to continue to be disappointed and upset when the reality doesn't live up to the hype. I see this as a maturing car company understanding it's limitations and having growing pains as a result. Things have gotten better, communication has gotten better, but still from time to time Tesla\Elon says something or infers something that ends up not being fully accurate or true. I don't see these things as intentional or deceptive in any way, I truly believe Tesla\Elon intends to deliver exactly what they sudo promise but run into engineering\financial hurdles that weren't expected and only experience would help them temper their messages a bit. Experience though, only comes with learning from your mistakes.

As more cars are sold, and the Model X is revealed etc..., Tesla is going to continue to widen their customer types and personalities. As such, more and more people who aren't early adopters are going to buy these cars and are going to be a bit taken back by some things even while they are being improved. This is the nature of a grown company like Tesla. That's why I just sit here and chuckle a bit at some of the threads that are popular these days such as the autopilot\V7 software thats "late" depending on your position, perspective, and personality type. In the end what really matters is are the cars safe? Are you getting what you ordered? Is Tesla reasonably handling any post delivery issues? For the vast majority of people it would appear that you can say Yes to all three of those things. I think that's a good foundation to build from even if a wall has to be rebuilt from time to time.

Jeff

Well said. Telsa certainly has over-promised at times, under delivered at times and has been late or failed to deliver on others. Overall, they still managed to deliver a car that has redefined a segment and caused other automakers to take note. The quick improvements Tesla makes to the cars certainly does not sit well with some and that's understandable given how the auto industry normally operates.

 

[apacheguy]

It would be very interesting to know the engineering reasons behind Tesla's demurral on battery swaps for early VINs.

This is what I'm going to get to the bottom of and will post back when I find out. I strongly suspect there is no incompatibility and they are just giving this as an excuse not to include Sigs. We'll see when my MS is in for service on Friday.

 

[sorka]

I suspect the demand is low because there's not real need for a swap station. We just passed through Harris Ranch a few weeks ago. Plugged in and started charging. By the time we'd used the restrooms and sat down to order dinner, the car was ready to go. My wife stll hasn't gotten used to how fast it charges up especially when starting low. Her expectations, despite me telling her in theory how it would work were a lot lower. I don't think she really believed it would work as well as it does.

It's likely that within a few years as pack capacities increase, chemistries improve, and super chargers goto 150+ amps that we'll be looking at much shorter charging times than we already have.

In ten years, I wouldn't surprised if charging is only 4 times slower than filling up your gas tank.

 

[dsm363]

This is what I'm going to get to the bottom of and will post back when I find out. I strongly suspect there is no incompatibility and they are just giving this as an excuse not to include Sigs. We'll see when my MS is in for service on Friday.

That doesn't make any sense to me. Why would they lie just to exclude the Signature customers? If they are saying certain cars aren't compatible maybe it really is certain cars aren't compatible with the swap stations.

 

[AnOutsider]

I suspect the demand is low because there's not real need for a swap station. We just passed through Harris Ranch a few weeks ago. Plugged in and started charging. By the time we'd used the restrooms and sat down to order dinner, the car was ready to go. My wife stll hasn't gotten used to how fast it charges up especially when starting low. Her expectations, despite me telling her in theory how it would work were a lot lower. I don't think she really believed it would work as well as it does.

It's likely that within a few years as pack capacities increase, chemistries improve, and super chargers goto 150+ amps that we'll be looking at much shorter charging times than we already have.

In ten years, I wouldn't surprised if charging is only 4 times slower than filling up your gas tank.

Agreed. I've always thought that we needed either more range or shorter charge times (wouldn't say no to both, though) before EVs were a no-brainer from a convenience perspective.

 

[yobigd20]

In ten years, I wouldn't surprised if charging is only 4 times slower than filling up your gas tank.

It'll be faster than that. Well, the batteries will be able to charge faster than that at least. The problem will be where to get that kind of power in that short of time without each supercharger having a mini nuclear reactor power station lol

 

[apacheguy]

That doesn't make any sense to me. Why would they lie just to exclude the Signature customers? If they are saying certain cars aren't compatible maybe it really is certain cars aren't compatible with the swap stations.

Doesn't make sense to me either. But how else could it be that my car has all the necessary hardware (per service) and the latest pack components (I'm getting a replacement battery swapped in on Friday direct from Fremont) and not be compatible? Seems odd.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

In come the Tesla painters, as they are so want to do.

Over 10 original features that were announced and advertised were never correctly handled and many sigs didnt arrive until after those announcements. Example: December 2012. Using your 20 changes per month arguement, the cars should have changed to allow the swap. The A packs were not up to par with most having contact failures and decreased charging ability was dis covered by us not reported by Tesla. You can and will defend Tesla by saying they can change the terms and car at anytime.

I'm glad the car has improved, but many of us floated $40K for many years for a company near bankruptcy. Had our reservations not been there for investors to see, the company would not have likely survived. When the X comes, I will hope that you fair better than the Sig S car owners, but many here seem to think it's great to have had a less than promised experience. I wouldn't want that for you and don't see why so many lack empathy.

Plus the Sig S tax that model X reservation holders won't likely pay got me an emblem and a travel bag full of stuffing. I got to pay more for my car than the same specs car and was told we'd be taken special care of. Kind of seems like we ended up in a nursing home. The care is there but not exactly what we thought was going to happen to the first large scale backers of what could have been vaporware.

What, exactly, did Tesla promise you would happen?

- - - Updated - - -

So this thread exists because a Signature owner was told that his car is not eligible for a beta-test that, most likely, is going to be discontinued soon?

 

[WarpedOne]

Nothing to add, but I feel bad for the Sig owners. It feels like they should be rewarded somehow for their early adopter status, but instead they seem to get the short end every time.

// sarcasm on
Yes, those poor Sig owner are really having hard time. Driving model S for third year now and constantly watching how newer cars are better than theirs in so many ways.
// sarcasm off

Hmm, I didn't want to say that :|
I want to say they are very privileged minority who are driving in Model S for third year already while others are still only wishing for such a dream machine.

I too am interested in details why not, just to better understand the evolution of The Car.
I also remember that easy battery swaping capability was amongst base design features from day one.
But swapping capability does not mean every swapping station out there will meet requirements of particular car.
The machines, procedures, batteries on stock etc, dirty details...