Should Model S have a solar panel?

[aaronw]

The Fisker Karma has a large solar panel on the roof. I follow the forums there and for the amount of power generated and the cost of the panel it is estimated that the return on investment is around 500 years. The amount of power produced by the large panel on the roof is negligible compared to the amount of power the car draws. Plus, it would negate being able to have the panoramic roof. I would much rather have the panoramic roof than a useless solar panel.

Having fold-out panels from the trunk is just asking for trouble and would be a reliability nightmare and would certainly not be worth the excess cost and complexity. Translucent panels also are typically fairly inefficient as well.

 

[JRP3]

The Fisker Karma has a large solar panel on the roof. I follow the forums there and for the amount of power generated and the cost of the panel it is estimated that the return on investment is around 500 years. The amount of power produced by the large panel on the roof is negligible compared to the amount of power the car draws. Plus, it would negate being able to have the panoramic roof. I would much rather have the panoramic roof than a useless solar panel.

Useless?

I've also been in a situation where I had to leave my ICE car in an airport for 6 months due to traveling abroad (yes, it needed a new 12V battery afterwards). There is literally nothing I could do, now that I have a Tesla. I simply can't go on a trip like that now that I have to babysit my car.

I'd say a car you can't leave unattended for extended periods is far more "useless" than a pano roof which serves little practical purpose, (and also reduces range when actually in use). Just because the Karma panel is over priced doesn't mean a Tesla panel needs to be.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Whaddayoumean comedy? You didn't get that option for your Roadster???

View attachment 77049

Lotus Mobile - Portable Solar Charging System - Electric Cars Report

Edit: Sorry, didn't see the link posted earlier in the thread.

This Lotus Mobile looks cool. Think to get it one day for my future electric car.

 

[aaronw]

Making a curved panel like that is quite expensive and I certainly would not consider the pano roof useless, especially when it increases the head room, plus it is just nice to open it on a nice day. Leaving a car at an airport for 6 months is downright dumb when it is far less expensive to take a shuttle to the airport (for a lot less money) without having to worry about a car getting broken into or vandalism. As it is, more and more airports have spots with 110v outlets where EVs can remain plugged in. I certainly wouldn't want to leave my model S parked out in the weather like that for six months.

 

[JRP3]

Making a curved panel like that is quite expensive

It need not be.

and I certainly would not consider the pano roof useless, especially when it increases the head room, plus it is just nice to open it on a nice day.

Great, that's why it's an option. I have no use for sun roofs, moon roofs, or pano roofs.

I certainly wouldn't want to leave my model S parked out in the weather like that for six months.

Sometimes things happen which may require such. I've left ICE's sitting for longer than that for various reasons with little concern.

 

[aaronw]

I have left an ICE sitting for 6 months also and ended up with a dead battery (and it was charged and desulfated monthly). I still say one would be crazy to leave any 70K car sitting in an airport parking lot under the weather for six months is idiotic. That's why there's these things called shuttles, which are a lot cheaper as well for that length of time. Besides, given the power draw of the Tesla I doubt an inexpensive solar solution would keep the 12v battery charged, and the 12v battery only lasts 12-16 months anyway due to how much power is drawn. I'm on my 3rd battery in 2 years already.

 

[dhanson865]

Yes the Model S should have a solar panel, when they refresh it in 2020 with the Model S 2.0 rev.

Maybe an expensive option for the mid cycle refresh in 2017 and standard on the 2020 full refresh?

Or maybe an expensive option on the 2020 and a standard feature on the 2023?

 

[Rheazombi]

Leaving a car at an airport for 6 months is downright dumb when it is far less expensive to take a shuttle to the airport (for a lot less money) without having to worry about a car getting broken into or vandalism. As it is, more and more airports have spots with 110v outlets where EVs can remain plugged in. I certainly wouldn't want to leave my model S parked out in the weather like that for six months.

Wow, way to judge without knowing my situation whatsoever. I have no dedicated parking at home. Pray tell, how can I leave my car unattended on a street in Boston for 6 months when I would have to move my car every 2 weeks for street sweeping?
Also, your last sentence is absurd, as I park her outside every day of her life (again, I have no garage). She's doing fine.

 

[caddieo]

I once had an Audi A8 with a solar panel in the sun roof. Functionally, it wasn't worth spit so I didn't have it repaired when it conked out.

 

[JRP3]

I have left an ICE sitting for 6 months also and ended up with a dead battery (and it was charged and desulfated monthly).

That doesn't make any sense. A healthy lead acid battery with no load on it should easily hold a charge for 6 months, even more so if it's being charged regularly. I'd suspect your equipment may have been over charging it or something.

 

[Electric700]

Yes the Model S should have a solar panel, when they refresh it in 2020 with the Model S 2.0 rev.

Maybe an expensive option for the mid cycle refresh in 2017 and standard on the 2020 full refresh?

Or maybe an expensive option on the 2020 and a standard feature on the 2023?

I like the 2017 option idea/standard on 2020, though perhaps even by 2017 it will be much more economical. Solar panel costs are coming down.

 

[Doug_G]

It's still a silly idea. Even if the solar panels come way down in price, can be formed to the shape of the car, and don't weigh much... many people aren't going to want a black car with funny silver stripes on it. And it's still not going to produce usable amounts of energy - sunlight isn't that power dense. You're far better off mounting the solar cells on your garage.

 

[dhanson865]

It's still a silly idea. Even if the solar panels come way down in price, can be formed to the shape of the car, and don't weigh much... many people aren't going to want a black car with funny silver stripes on it. And it's still not going to produce usable amounts of energy - sunlight isn't that power dense. You're far better off mounting the solar cells on your garage.

Your garage isn't at your work. If you have no control over your work installing solar. Adding a small panel to the car is better than nothing. Presumably if you live in the right parts of the country your house, shed, yard are all chock full of solar panels before you get a Tesla with a solar panel on it.

I totally agree put in more solar PV at your house before you worry about your car. I also think it's OK for this thread to look forward and ask the question how many years from now before Tesla offers a solar panel on any of their cars.

 

[JRP3]

It's still a silly idea. Even if the solar panels come way down in price

Done

can be formed to the shape of the car,

Done

and don't weigh much

Done

I don't know why people think solar panels are so expensive, heavy, and can't be formed into a mild curve. Tesla might even know a company from which to get cells at a discount...

many people aren't going to want a black car with funny silver stripes on it.

That's why it would be an option, and frankly I thought the panel on the Karma looked quite nice. I'd be happy to have something like that on the hood of the car as well for even more power delivery. Also, I'm not sure the "silver stripes" have to be silver in color.

And it's still not going to produce usable amounts of energy - sunlight isn't that power dense.

Preventing the car from vampiring away into uselessness is a usable amount of energy. It would also take some of the load off the 12V battery, prolonging it's life, and possibly avoiding being stuck by a bad 12V battery.

You're far better off mounting the solar cells on your garage.

Except as has been pointed out repeatedly when you aren't at your garage and/or don't have a garage.

 

[Electric700]

Great responses JRP3. I saw that in good sunlight, the Fisker Karma could deliver an extra 5 miles of EV range a week just from the solar panels. With more efficient panels that they have now, the Tesla Model S might get even more EV mileage back. That could translate to 260+ EV miles a year just from one solar panel on the car!

It might not mean that much to some, but for me that's close to a full charge (over a year), so I would definitely like to see it as an option.

 

[aaronw]

The Fisker solar panel also cost around $5,000 to make due to it being curved the way it is (which they also patented). It would be far more economical to use that money to install fixed panels on the home which will provide well over 260+ EV miles per year. I'm having solar installed on my house right now. Each panel retails for around $250 online and doesn't have to deal with curved surfaces. Each Enphase inverter is around $140 and a trunk cable isn't all that expensive. Also, the solar on the house doesn't care if you're parked in the shade or not. The solar panels on the Karma are a gimmick that looks cool but from a practical and financial point of view it's rather pointless. The ROI for the Fisker solar panel is around 500 years whereas the ROI on home solar is more like 6-7 years where I live.

 

[JRP3]

Sigh...comparisons with conventional panels at home are irrelevant. It's like arguing that a skylight at home would get more use and is cheaper than the pano roof on the car. Additionally, what Fisker spent on making the roof panel has little bearing on the actual costs for Tesla. Tesla already designed a glass roof with a retractable section, no way would making that a single piece with solar panels cost all that much more. They could integrate two of these or something similar, though as I mentioned I'm quite sure Tesla could get something even better, at a better price http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IK19VF6?psc=1


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There was also an aftermarket solar roof kit developed for the Prius back around 2008, and it retailed for $3.5K http://www.wired.com/2008/12/the-solar-prius/

 

[aaronw]

The cost will still be high. For one thing there are a lot of differences between the panoramic roof and solar. For one thing, you would need a totally different type of glass that lets through as much light as possible which means it will also let through a lot more heat. Then comes the problem of keeping the solar cells and the interior of the car from getting too hot. It is not a simple or cheap solution, and the solar cells would be only a small part of the cost. You also need to design the solar system so that it can stand up to the vibration and weather encountered when driving. The panoramic roof is a much simpler problem to solve. In any event, it will be quite costly to implement for a marginal benefit. Stationary panels don't have to worry so much about heat since the glass covering the cells is often a lot thinner and the there is plenty of ventilation behind the panels. High temperatures reduce panel efficiency and reliability. Solar cells age more rapidly when hot, roughly doubling the speed at which they age for every 18F so heat buildup is a major problem when integrating solar cells into a vehicle roof.

 

[Kilowatt]

Your garage isn't at your work. If you have no control over your work installing solar. Adding a small panel to the car is better than nothing. Presumably if you live in the right parts of the country your house, shed, yard are all chock full of solar panels before you get a Tesla with a solar panel on it.

I totally agree put in more solar PV at your house before you worry about your car. I also think it's OK for this thread to look forward and ask the question how many years from now before Tesla offers a solar panel on any of their cars.

I'm hope Tesla and Solarcity will offer panels and home batteries to buffer daytime sun for nighttime charge?

 

[Rheazombi]

I'm fine with the price being high as long as you get what you pay for. People spend thousands of bucks already just for some fancy rims that do nothing (no offense), it would just be cool to have the option for a solar power roof (my threshold for usefulness is 5-10 miles a day. I ain't asking for a personal fusion reactor).

Comparisons with the Fisker are interesting but not necessarily relevant. That car is quite old now, and since it failed as a company I don't know how wise it is to compare something Tesla would R&D vs something by Fisker.