Service center experience: trading my 3 in for a Mercedes

[Knightshade]

Well....they could use Tesla trade-ins and buyback vehicles as loaners (I suspect my local SC does this already) and actively list them for sale after x amount of months to keep the loaner fleet fresh.

They could- except inventory remains damn near zero- so they'd be literally giving up sales to do that, every single time, times # of service centers.


Consider- traditional car companies typically have roughly 70-80 days of inventory sitting around on lots at any given time.

Tesla end of Q4 2019 had...11 days.

Tesla simply has a TON less unsold cars at any given time, because people are typically buying them faster than they can make them.

So providing loaners in large #s would disrupt an already thin inventory supply chain.

Now- Elon claims this is about to improve... and maybe he means it this time... one reason I think that's possible is the tax credit is over... so there's a bit LESS of a difference now if a given car gets sold a few months later versus earlier than when folks were buying to get ahead of deadlines.

We'll see.

Is it up to $100 or do you get to keep whatever you don’t use? What’s the deal with no tipping?

IIRC the voucher you get expires at the end of the day it's for (some folks get more than 1 for more than 1 days use)

sorry, but I'm a refusenik, so to speak. I refuse to allow such an app on my phone. until and unless I can control the android (I don't do iphones..) permission model, I won't install what I consider untrustable rogue apps on my phone. nope, won't do it.

Weird- since iphones typically have better security in the first place compared to android.

And you can easily control what data any given app has access to with just a push or two (in fact the phone prompts you with some options the first time the app wants to access anything)

this is one of the big reasons I find the 'just take an uber!' statement so laughable. it ignores a whole set of things that, admittedly, most people don't think twice about. but as a software guy and someone with a little security background, I won't install apps that do what the ride-share (and other) apps do.

I've been in IT a pretty good long time- and the above still veers solidly into "what kinda tinfoil makes the best hat" territory IMHO.

You're entitled to the opinion, but it makes your argument look even sillier.

renting a car, otoh, invades none of my privacy

Yeah...tinfoil hat.

Renting a car requires your drivers license #, your home address, and your credit card info. (well, possibly not the last one for a 3rd party rental)

All given to a rental car company that will store all that data elsewhere. And an industry that has repeatedly been breached online losing millions of customers personal data many different times.

The idea you don't give up any privacy there is hilariously and provably nonsense


Versus an app on your phone you have much more direct control over, and doesn't have to know anything except where you began and ended a given trip (if you're only using it with vouchers you can even use a throwaway email and a fake name! try using fake name with Enterprise sometime!), and which you can remove entirely when you're done with it, leaving no data behind to BE breached later on 3rd party servers other than the time/start/end of the few specific trips you took those couple of days.

the one time I did have to take my m3 in for service - the service advisor tried to give me uber credits, I explained that I don't have (and don't want) the app on my phone - and actually, she was quite nice about it and offered to handle the ride to and from work via her own uber account. of course, that meant she got the $100 voucher, but I didn't care - I just needed a ride to and from work, for that one day of service. at the service center, she 'called' for the uber; and when I needed a ride back to the center, at the end of the day, I texted her and she 'called' the uber. it was a little clumsy but not overly, and it got us by for that instance

That's quite good service from Tesla.

Also means there's even options for the luddite grandpas out there.

 

[jfinephilly]

Lol. One can think an opinion is ripe with entitlement without being a fanboy. I think Tesla service has significant room for improvement but I also don’t expect them to provide me with a loaner. It is a nice option if available, but I am not entitled to a loaner for simply purchasing a vehicle from them.

For example, I believe they desperately need to improve their communication channels.

When other consumer products are being repaired I can’t remember being provided a loaner nor expecting one.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I never said that they shouldn’t sell those Tesla trades as fast as they can get them but think how much more efficient the used car or “remarketing” could be if they cut out Manheim from all but the least desirable trades and instead ran those through the loaner system. They could even use it to re-launch CPO which could in turn add value to our cars further.

 

[Knightshade]

I never said that they shouldn’t sell those Tesla trades as fast as they can get them but think how much more efficient the used car or “remarketing” could be if they cut out Manheim from all but the least desirable trades and instead ran those through the loaner system. They could even use it to re-launch CPO which could in turn add value to our cars further.

That's certainly not a bad idea- though I wonder if the issue is how busy service centers are that a program that'd require SCs to extensively rehab a car wouldn't make the original issue worse?

Other thing is I've no idea how many cars Tesla actually runs through auctions versus resells themselves to know if it's really make much of a dent- though anything's better than nothing I suppose.

 

[T3SLAROD]

I’ve had nothing but good experience with Tesla service, Mazda and Ford Service is a different story

 

[OCR1]

I’m surprised Tesla could actually offer $100 Uber credits per day instead of a loaner. If they worked with a third party rental car company they could easily rent a car to someone for much less than $100. I can’t imagine using $100 per day in credits so I think it would be fine for me to use Uber if they did not have a loaner available.

When I went to pick up my Model 3 last year it had some cosmetic issues I was not comfortable with so I rejected the car. They had no other ones in stock so I had to place an order for another one and wait 2 weeks for delivery. I had already sold my Lexus to a private party so I was without a car. They came up with a loaner Model S P85D and let me have it for the entire two weeks that I waited for my new Model 3 to be delivered. I didn’t even sign any paperwork for it. They just handed me the keys.

So I have no complaints so far with the limited experience I’ve had with their service/delivery team.

 

[linux-works]

Weird- since iphones typically have better security in the first place compared to android.

And you can easily control what data any given app has access to with just a push or two (in fact the phone prompts you with some options the first time the app wants to access anything)

I don't support apple, I don't like their walled garden, the lack of choice (overall) on that platform, the lack of interoperable peripherals (apple ecosystem).

I trust apple's OS more than android (very much so!) but I don't trust the whole 'gimme access to your info!' BS that is all the rage in the phone apps. its not about the OS, always; its about the greedy apps that ask for way more than they deserve.

I've been in IT a pretty good long time- and the above still veers solidly into "what kinda tinfoil makes the best hat" territory IMHO.

You're entitled to the opinion, but it makes your argument look even sillier.

so you say. I've also been in the field a long time (just a WAG, likely longer than you. I'm pushing 60, been working in software continually since my late teens; how about you?)

spent the last 25 years in the bay area working in software, firmware, hardware. on consumer products, on IT corp systems, on networking gear and now on cars. I'm no neophite and no technophobe! just the opposite. and that's WHY I refuse to install greedy apps on my phone.

the fact that you look down on my choice says more about you than me...

Renting a car requires your drivers license #, your home address, and your credit card info. (well, possibly not the last one for a 3rd party rental)

All given to a rental car company that will store all that data elsewhere. And an industry that has repeatedly been breached online losing millions of customers personal data many different times.

hey, smart guy: you think giving them my DL info and CC info is the same thing as giving an app unrestricted access to ALL the info I keep on my phone??

seriously? you wanna go there? (LOL!)

I don't give them my email, I don't usually even give out my phone unless I absolutely have to. I never give out my home address or my work address. call it tinfoil if you want, I could not care less what someone like you thinks of my security policies. but renting a car does not - IN ANY WAY - compare to the privacy rape that happens when you install apps that want the world of privs. and with android, NO, you CANNOT say no and expect the app to run. that's the whole point of the android eco-systems. steal your data and give you a 'shiny' in return. no thanks. I refuse to play.

 

[alsetym]

Update from my original post:
I brought my Model 3 to the Mercedes dealer and looked at an E450 convertible. With the Driver Assistance package and Park Assist package, it has just about all the autopilot and other features of a Tesla (except, regrettably, the lack of an engine), for about the same price as a Model S. Dealership is about 1 hour from my home, but they have 12 driver/valets to pick up your car when needed, drop off a loaner, service it, and return it detailed.

Manager test drove my M3 and asked what I wanted for trade-in value. I told him $41K (the NADA value for a "clean" trade-in, and he immediately agreed (I think he really liked his test drive).

I will be leaving the Tesla fold next week for now. I hope to return when Tesla becomes a "big boy" car company and knows how to treat its customers

Oh, interesting. I didn't know MB's version of AP auto changed lanes for HWY routing and was about to release the equivalent in city driving over the air, or a blind spot monitoring system that actually prevents you from hitting someone rather than blinking a light at you every time you pass a car. Have fun driving an hour every 3 months for oil changes and getting gas every week and dealing with the HIGHEST depreciation of any manufacturer.

Also have fun being an entitled a$$ when you MB dealership gives you the bill for out of warranty service.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I’m surprised Tesla could actually offer $100 Uber credits per day instead of a loaner. If they worked with a third party rental car company they could easily rent a car to someone for much less than $100. I can’t imagine using $100 per day in credits so I think it would be fine for me to use Uber if they did not have a loaner available.

Tesla only pays for the Uber credits that are used.
Uber charges $9 per hour to not go anywhere, I wonder if you could just sign up for Uber and pay yourself.

 

[OCR1]

Tesla only pays for the Uber credits that are used.
Uber charges $9 per hour to not go anywhere, I wonder if you could just sign up for Uber and pay yourself.

Sounds like a great business idea...now you just have to figure out how to request yourself as the driver when you are the passenger.

I’m guessing the no tipping policy falls along similar lines. You only need a $10 ride but you have $100 in credits, so you figure you will just be a really generous guy and tip the driver $90. That’s probably where the no tipping policy came from.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Believe it is much less expensive for Tesla to just build new loaner stock, than to buy used Tesla at retail prices.

Hard for them to take a bunch of new cars off the line for loaners when there is an eager waiting list to buy every last one they can produce.

Many dealerships provide loaners. Each seems to have their own policies and inventory. Some are free and others are customer pay.
They do this to build loyality to the dealership, not so much for the brand. Sometimes manufacturers will force excess production inventory into dealership loaner fleets. Factory will discount the pricing so the dealership can use them as loaners for a year or so, then sell them (usually not disclosing they were in the loaner fleet) as used/CPO vehicle at higher dealership prices.

Tesla probably uses Uber credits as a facilitator for owners needing transportation to and from home or work. They may give a $100 credit, but know that much of the credit will not be used just getting back and forth.

Imagine that if Tesla feel owners are gaming the system for financial gain, they will most likely terminate the perk.

Tesla has policies as to helping out owners bringing in their cars. If they feel it is not providing the desired effect, I imagine they will change the policy.

Always a challenge to compare motivations for a independent dealership VS. A factory direct provider.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Sounds like a great business idea...now you just have to figure out how to request yourself as the driver when you are the passenger.

I assume if you're literally in the same room as yourself it will work.

I’m guessing the no tipping policy falls along similar lines. You only need a $10 ride but you have $100 in credits, so you figure you will just be a really generous guy and tip the driver $90. That’s probably where the no tipping policy came from.

Yeah, that would be an obvious loophole. Tip the Uber driver $90 and get a $50 kickback.

Anyway on the subject of the thread I would never recommend someone buy a Tesla if they're hours away from a service center. On the other hand I would never recommend buying a German car at all (well maybe a Porsche...). If you have to have a German car you should lease.

 

[patrick40363]

After my recent service center experience in Orlando, I have become convinced that owning a Tesla may become more and more problematic in the future. The car itself is wonderful, but the experience of owning a car and having it serviced is very important, and Tesla is failing miserably. The Orlando center is absolutely overwhelmed, and it shows. Most of the employees don't seem to care much and are trying just to get through the day. Getting the attention of a service person takes anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes. Comparing my Tesla experience to my previous BMW and Mercedes ownership:

• BMW: I have a problem. I pick up the phone. Brent, my service guy answers on the second ring and asks about my family. A guy drives a loaner over and takes my car.
• Tesla: Can't call, even to ask a simple question. All service needs to be scheduled through the app. Service calls are usually at least a week out, sometimes two or three.
• BMW: Brent calls and says they have to order a part. It will arrive overnight and be installed the next day.
• Tesla: No calls. Service adviser texts that he needs to order a part. When will it arrive? No idea. I'm going on vacation for a week. Service adviser says no problem, it will definitely be ready by then. I return a week later and text my adviser to see if the car is ready. Nope. I live 90 minutes away. Is there anybody who can deliver the car when fixed? No, we're far too busy for that.
• BMW: Fixed car is delivered, washed inside and out.
• Tesla:
  • I drive 90 minutes, then wait the usual 30 minutes to talk to someone. Car is brought around. It is absolutely filthy. It is covered in leaves, sap, pollen and other tree debris. The debris is in the Frunk and the Trunk, and in the interior. What did they do, work on the car under a tree with every window and door open??
  • I drive home, then as I am washing it, I notice that the front end has extensive scraping damage to the paint, as if another vehicle or something had ground against it.
  • I try to text my service adviser. Case is closed and the text thread won't accept further messages.
  • I look for some phone number, any phone number, to call about this. Nothing on the website.
  • I email and I create a new service request. Four days so far......one return email saying they will forward the message, but otherwise, crickets.

I absolutely love my Model 3. But, I can't drive around dreading if something goes wrong and I have to subject myself and my car to further service. Service after the sale is key to satisfied customers. Traditional car companies get this, especially the ones that are competing at Tesla's price point (BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc). This is especially true now that it is becoming evident that Tesla's reliability may not be as stellar as hoped (I needed service because my whole drive unit failed after 12,000 miles). Tesla's service center in Orlando is overwhelmed already. Tesla aims to sell 500,000 more vehicles this year! I sense an impending disaster in Tesla's reputation if it doesn't get in front of this ASAP. I have an appointment to look at a Mercedes tomorrow and trade my M3 in. It is with reluctance. I hope that Tesla will grow to become a real car company with real service one day. Today is not that day.

Why aren't you buying a BMW? You are buying a Mercedes but your glowing review is for BMW.

 

[Knightshade]

so you say. I've also been in the field a long time (just a WAG, likely longer than you. I'm pushing 60, been working in software continually since my late teens; how about you?)

I learned to program when I was 5, in the days stuff got saved to tape if it got saved at all, but since none of that really related to current networked security practice this probably isn't the most relevant diskwaving contest....

spent the last 25 years in the bay area working in software, firmware, hardware. on consumer products, on IT corp systems, on networking gear and now on cars. I'm no neophite and no technophobe! just the opposite. and that's WHY I refuse to install greedy apps on my phone.

the fact that you look down on my choice says more about you than me...

I don't think it does... I think it says more about your overly paranoid ideas about how this stuff works compared to the real world evidence of security breaches of 3rd party data from rental car companies...

hey, smart guy: you think giving them my DL info and CC info is the same thing as giving an app unrestricted access to ALL the info I keep on my phone??

I don't know a ton about the current state of android (I used to do android image customization on tablet devices but it was a few years back).... but on iOS anyway you absolutely do not have to give an app "unrestricted access to ALL the info" you keep on your phone.

Not even close.

So either Android security has gotten frighteningly awful and you should get over not "liking" apple- or you're again off into tinfoil hat land.

I don't give them my email, I don't usually even give out my phone unless I absolutely have to

I've never rented a car and NOT had to provide a phone number to them.

. I never give out my home address

For a rental car?

Uh- you know that's on your drivers license right?

Which you DO give them.

Wow.

call it tinfoil if you want, I could not care less what someone like you thinks of my security policies. but renting a car does not - IN ANY WAY - compare to the privacy rape that happens when you install apps that want the world of privs.

I eagerly await reading your manifesto- have you picked up the cabin you'll write it in yet?

and with android, NO, you CANNOT say no and expect the app to run. that's the whole point of the android eco-systems. steal your data and give you a 'shiny' in return. no thanks. I refuse to play.

...you just told us you dislike iOS because it walls things off (and you admit it has much better security)

But you instead use android- that you're mad...does not wall things off....and apparently refuses to let you limit access for an app...


You do you I guess!

 

[linux-works]

knightshade, you seem way more triggered than your usual self, for some reason. you feeling ok?

 

[Knightshade]

knightshade, you seem way more triggered than your usual self, for some reason. you feeling ok?

I think it's probably you just being paranoid. Which seems to track


BTW since you seem unclear on how apps on your own phone work, here's a reference-
Legal | Uber

Uber appears to make clear you can deny permission to almost everything they ask for- even your present location- to the app... (you'd just type in where you want to be picked up manually)...and the app will still work fine.


So again, you've got the option of sharing less personal info overall with the Uber app than you do when you go to a car rental agency to rent a car.

 

[lotusland]

Gibbon, thank you for the update. There's no question that Tesla is not for everyone at this point, especially in the way that service is provided (or not provided!). Most of the issues that people have with Tesla seem to involve a lack of phone service. Some simply cannot tolerate not being able call a person directly. I'm OK with that really, I mean Amazon cannot be called directly either and I have way more individual transactions with them. This is the way of the present -- phone is not the most effective way to communicate. I also question the cost of the kind of pampered service that some demand. That cost is built into the cost of the car. So instead of getting an emissions-free transport and bleeding edge technology, you are getting a guy to sit at a desk and another guy to come drive your broken ICE to the dealer -- your $$ are simply given a different priority in the total package you are buying. That does not sound like a good deal to me, but I understand that to some it makes sense. It's the way of the past though.

 

[OCR1]

Gibbon, thank you for the update. There's no question that Tesla is not for everyone at this point, especially in the way that service is provided (or not provided!). Most of the issues that people have with Tesla seem to involve a lack of phone service. Some simply cannot tolerate not being able call a person directly. I'm OK with that really, I mean Amazon cannot be called directly either and I have way more individual transactions with them. This is the way of the present -- phone is not the most effective way to communicate. I also question the cost of the kind of pampered service that some demand. That cost is built into the cost of the car. So instead of getting an emissions-free transport and bleeding edge technology, you are getting a guy to sit at a desk and another guy to come drive your broken ICE to the dealer -- your $$ are simply given a different priority in the total package you are buying. That does not sound like a good deal to me, but I understand that to some it makes sense. It's the way of the past though.

Not to sidetrack this highly engaging conversation...but not only can Amazon be called directly, but if you have a problem with an order you can request that they call you and your phone will ring within 30 seconds with a live person on the phone.

I would love to see Tesla get there some day.

Also, @linux-works, I’d love to know why you chose to add to your signature line your former membership in the Radio Shack Battery Club. Is that something to be proud of?

 

[lotusland]

Whoa, you are right! I have to admit I have not tried in probably a decade (see what I mean?). I recall not being able to contact them many years ago and have relied on e-mail / contact forms ever since.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Everyone here needs a Snickers!