Running out of power & roadtrips

[strider]

Does the car force you to change it to Range mode or does that require pre-thought as in switching modes when you have 50 miles left or something like that?

You have to switch into Range mode by touching the screen. Model S is the same way. Since it requires you to do something it serves as a good "wake-up call".

EDIT: I stand corrected - the car will automatically switch to Range mode from Standard when the bottom of Standard is reached.

 

[strider]

Note: The Roadster manual specifically warns AGAINST this:

Yes, towing a car w/ a rope is dangerous but I've done it w/ ICE vehicles - you just have to be careful to not ram the tow vehicle. Also, if the car is powered off and you tow it I agree that would be bad for the powertrain. But if the car is powered up and in gear - having it pulled forward is no different than regen to the drivetrain. The wheels will be driven and power will flow into the batteries.

I'm not saying this should be a standard practice but just pointing it out as an option - a few friends and a truck can be a lot cheaper than a tow truck if you don't have AAA.

 

[goyogi]

I am getting the 85kwh Model S. If I need to go on a road trip I have a friend I trust that will swap my Model S for her biodiesel truck that can go >1000 miles on a tank. In the future there will be fewer and fewer gas powered vehicles to swap with but by that time I'm sure battery/supercap/other technology will have advanced far enough to take us 500+ miles on a charge and charging stations will be more plentiful than gas stations.

 

[mgemmell]

You have to switch into Range mode by touching the screen. Model S is the same way. Since it requires you to do something it serves as a good "wake-up call".

I have driven my car twice to empty (that's just he way I am... I don't like to fear the unknown). Here's what happens...

In Standard mode as the battery gets low the battery symbol turns yellow then red, and finally it switches automatically to Range mode and then finally to power limit (same as if the CPU or motor were overheating). Under 30km ideal range more or less it indicates range unknown and you just have to reset your trip meter and watch the 30kms pass. On both occasions I got an extra 6 or 7 kms with charge indicating 1% before it shut the motor down.

The lights still worked with no dimming. The car could be put into tow mode or Neutral no problem. The door locks are powered by a separate drycell up front so there will never be an issue of not being able to exit the car.

My wife and I pushed the car back home on the second occasion (only 100m or so) and the first time it ran out as it rolled into the garage (kinda lucky!).

Its not good to do this as it impacts battery longevity, but that said after the first time I went to absolute zero I range charged and got 396kms ideal range, which was higher than I got before.

The question of "but, what if you run out of charge?!" reminds of of someone who is afraid to visit a foreign country, saying "what if I I find a place where no one speaks My Language?" It's non-sensical to expect to change the world and have new experiences if you are unwilling to first change yourself. So my answer to those questions is "I plan ahead where I buy gas, and I plan where I will charge up. It's as simple as that." And bring a phrase book.

You need to follow Rafael DeMaestre on his round the world drive in his Roadster. Just yesterday he posted on facebook (http://www.facebook.com/80eDays) about looking for a plug using hand signals. I think there can be no clearer example of how to find power in difficult circumstances.

As a small contribution to resolving this issue, later this year I launch a new business (Drive And Dream) with the entire Spanish mainland covered with 32A charging and no more than 200km between each charge point. These are chargepoints that you will be happy to stay at and enjoy life while the car and you recover. Don't look at the web right now... it is under construction and seems to be selling iced teas!

 

[brianman]

I have driven my car twice to empty (that's just he way I am... I don't like to fear the unknown).

Its not good to do this as it impacts battery longevity, but that said after the first time I went to absolute zero I range charged and got 396kms ideal range, which was higher than I got before.

I recall reading a Roadster thread with charts showing the range charge with a standard charge over time. The conclusion in the dip noticed was something about a firmware upgrade, IIRC.

Anyway, my point is... have you seen an impact on your predicted range on standard charge associated with each of these "drain to zero" events? I'm curious to see your chart with those events marked.

 

[Mark Petersen]

well one thing that should be easy to implement is a "range power limiter"
what it must do is that you enter a range fx. 200 miles and the system monitor you remaning range and either limit the power or come with a warning when you used to much power
this would be a perfect match for the GPS system, as it can automatic calculate the maximum speed allowed inorder to reach your destination, and come with a suggestion to add a recharge if needed
and if you need recharging to reach the destination it can calculate the optimal speed in combination with the recharging time

also an other cool feature is when you park or programe a destination in the GPS, it can calculate the range to any of your normal charging spots (home /work) and come with a warning that the remaning range will be insufficient in order to return home
meaning that the car can warn me that the destination for my meeting will result in that I need to recharge in order to return home, or that if posible I can limit the power on the first part of the trip on order to have enough power to return home
thereby preventing me from ending up in a situation where I need to recharge on route, by simply providing an automatic power planing system

 

[smoothoperator]

I have driven my car twice to empty (that's just he way I am... I don't like to fear the unknown). Here's what happens...

In Standard mode as the battery gets low the battery symbol turns yellow then red, and finally it switches automatically to Range mode and then finally to power limit (same as if the CPU or motor were overheating). Under 30km ideal range more or less it indicates range unknown and you just have to reset your trip meter and watch the 30kms pass. On both occasions I got an extra 6 or 7 kms with charge indicating 1% before it shut the motor down.

The lights still worked with no dimming. The car could be put into tow mode or Neutral no problem. The door locks are powered by a separate drycell up front so there will never be an issue of not being able to exit the car.

My wife and I pushed the car back home on the second occasion (only 100m or so) and the first time it ran out as it rolled into the garage (kinda lucky!).

Its not good to do this as it impacts battery longevity, but that said after the first time I went to absolute zero I range charged and got 396kms ideal range, which was higher than I got before.

I know a person that ran out of juice on their Roadster, had to wait a few hours for a tow truck, had the car towed to their house and when they attempted to plug it in the car would not charge. The car kept prompting (Plug in Car Immediately) but the car would not take a charge. Tesla ended up having to trickle charge the battery, in order for the battery to accept a charge.

 

[dmckinstry]

Many of us HAVE taken road trips. I've headed to southern CA (1300 m roundtrip) and am planning a trip up to Seattle shortly. And it's easier every day with more and more infrastructure in place. iPhone apps tell you help you find places to plug in. You pick hotels that have installed what you need. You stop to eat where you can plug in.

And we do at least one 2300 mile round trip each year. Not with a Tesla, and when we get one not without superchargers in place.

 

[Teo_atawki]

I'm planning on some serious road trips once my S arrives. I'll probably start with in-state and in-region drives like Seattle to the pacific coast or grand coulee dam or the Palouse. Also Seattle to Portland. I love to take photos and there is a lot of photo-worthy scenery all over the northwest.

In the long term, I'd like to drive I-90 from end to end, not coincidentally, Safeco Field to Fenway Park. I'm also considering a coast to coast trip on US-2 to complete a trip my father-in-law always wanted to make, assembling a cookbook of dishes encountered along the way. I want to travel to see relatives in Minnesota, Michigan's UP, Ohio, Arizona, Nevada, Kentucky, Florida, and California.

I'll make the trips by planning ahead, trying to take my time, although I-90 coast to coast is a drive where I'm likely to be in a hurry.

 

[vfx]

Does the car force you to change it to Range mode or does that require pre-thought as in switching modes when you have 50 miles left or something like that?

If you are in standard mode when you hit 20 miles left the car automatically tells you and places you in range mode.

 

[mgemmell]

I recall reading a Roadster thread with charts showing the range charge with a standard charge over time. The conclusion in the dip noticed was something about a firmware upgrade, IIRC.

Anyway, my point is... have you seen an impact on your predicted range on standard charge associated with each of these "drain to zero" events? I'm curious to see your chart with those events marked.

Actually no. The only impact I have seen was on a trip to Portugal about a month ago. On Standard charge I would normally get around 307kms Ideal Range but since that trip the standard charge only goes to 291kms.

The range mode charge has dropped too, from a max of 394kms Ideal Range to now a max of around 378kms (more or less).

On that trip the only remarkable thing was that we had to charge during the day in extreme heat (air temp around the car was 53C!). The heat caused charge current to be limited to 10A but I suspect that high temp charging caused a change in capacity.

On the second drive to empty I saw no gain or loss in capacity, but on the first one I saw an INCREASE in capacity of maybe 5% (I suspect that sometimes the car needs to learn what empty is in order to really know the capacity of the battery).

The logs for the first 0% SOC were lost as I didn't learn to extract logs until about 5 months later. I can get the logs for the latest one if of any interest.

 

[brianman]

That bodes well for the life expectancy of Roadster batteries in general, and likely good news for Model S batteries.

Good to know. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Doug_G]

I find if you "stress" the car more than usual, the next day after charging the Ideal Miles is slightly lower than usual, but that it recovers again after a couple of days. This could simply be due to small variations in pack balance.

 

[DJ Frustration]

I know this thread is old but, did anyone ever answer the question on what happens if you exhaust the battery while away from an electrical source to recharge? Is there an official procedure we should be following with the Model S?

My father-in-law asked the question, "what happens when you run out of battery?" and the only good answer I had was, "you just plug it in...there are tons more electrical outlets than gas stations." While true and simplistic, is there an official procedure to recharge after running out of battery?

 

[arg]

I know this thread is old but, did anyone ever answer the question on what happens if you exhaust the battery while away from an electrical source to recharge? Is there an official procedure we should be following with the Model S?

My father-in-law asked the question, "what happens when you run out of battery?" and the only good answer I had was, "you just plug it in...there are tons more electrical outlets than gas stations." While true and simplistic, is there an official procedure to recharge after running out of battery?

Noone seems to have yet tried running to a dead stop in real life and posted about it, but:

- There seems to be a general assumption that after running flat on the road, you would normally get the car recovered on a flat-bed truck to a place where charging was available and then charge as usual. IIRC, such towing is included in the roadside assistance part of the Tesla maintenance plan.

- There is a note in the Owners' Guide that after a run-flat situation, the 12V (conventional lead-acid) battery that runs instrumentation etc. may then go flat quite quickly and need 'jump starting' to get the car powered back up. Presumably this is because the main battery system protects itself by no longer running the converter that normally charges the 12V battery from the main battery.

- I've seen some reports (not specifically related to Tesla) of roadside assistance organizations (eg. AAA) getting mobile generator trucks to rescue EVs. Probably not yet commonplace however.

 

[roblab]

OK, maybe I'm just dumb, but why would anyone drive to empty in an EV?

Sure, in a gas car, with no real idea how much range you have left on that quarter tank, or eighth of a tank, and you "think" you might make it to the next freeway exit, I can see running out of gas, but the EV tells you. And to drive blindly into the last 5 miles and "think" that you can make it 6 miles to home is about asinine. Or you could just slow down and make 6 miles, but you *know* how far you can go. And outlets are common. With an onboard computer with google search, you can also find the closest 50 amp outlet! And just about every house in the US has 220 volt. At least they have 110 volt outlets. I just don't get the excitement.

Or you could be driving with your brain turned off. In that case it's probably safer if you run out of battery and have to walk home.

I plan on driving from SF area to Canada tomorrow. (well, part way tomorrow). I don't plan on blogging on how I ran out of charge and what emotionally trying and expensive exercises I went through to rectify the situation. Even Top Gear had to PLAN in order to run out of juice to make their stupid statements.

 

[ggr]

OK, maybe I'm just dumb, but why would anyone drive to empty in an EV?

Sure, in a gas car, with no real idea how much range you have left on that quarter tank, or eighth of a tank, and you "think" you might make it to the next freeway exit, I can see running out of gas, but the EV tells you. And to drive blindly into the last 5 miles and "think" that you can make it 6 miles to home is about asinine. Or you could just slow down and make 6 miles, but you *know* how far you can go. And outlets are common. With an onboard computer with google search, you can also find the closest 50 amp outlet! And just about every house in the US has 220 volt. At least they have 110 volt outlets. I just don't get the excitement.

Or you could be driving with your brain turned off. In that case it's probably safer if you run out of battery and have to walk home.

I plan on driving from SF area to Canada tomorrow. (well, part way tomorrow). I don't plan on blogging on how I ran out of charge and what emotionally trying and expensive exercises I went through to rectify the situation. Even Top Gear had to PLAN in order to run out of juice to make their stupid statements.

I completely agree. The only way you can actually run out is bad planning.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

I also agree with you. Then while planning in the USA (and especially in California) you have many choices because you have a super charger network that is also increasing. In Italy we have not such a choice. In particular in the South of Italy (unbelievable but true) we don't even have public plugs!
In spite of this I firmly believe that electric cars are in the future of mankind and that in order not to run out of power it's a matter of good planning.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

I completely agree. The only way you can actually run out is bad planning.

or being a moron

 

[vfx]

... Even Top Gear had to PLAN in order to run out of juice to make their stupid statements.

I assume you are talking about the LEAF episode since they lied* about ever running out of juice in the Roadster.

* fabricated for supposed comedic effect.