Running out of power & roadtrips

[jerry33]

@jerry33. Can you explain what these numbers mean--the non-obvious ones?

The INC column is short for incremental. It's the distance traveled in one fill up.

The AVG column is the average mpg (l/100km) during that tank full of gas.

Of course, I thought they were all obvious, so I'm guessing as to which ones you think aren't obvious:smile:

 

[dsm363]

It has certainly helped me reading the many posts from Roadster owners (and other BEV owners), sharing your experience and seeing that you have shed away your concerns about range. Some of you are even thinking of no longer owning an ICE vehicle. That confidence has helped me think through the range concerns. I'm hoping in about 5 years I too can say that I no longer own an ICE car.

Especially with a Prius as your backup, the range anxiety should be basically zero for exactly the reasons you went through. Nice work. Could it happen? Sure but will almost always be on a road trip where you miscalculated your trip and distance to next charge point due to speed, weather, AC use...etc. Around home, as you as you don't have a massive commute and use well over half your range on a daily basis, it isn't a worry at all. I think of it like a tire blowing out and your rim getting so badly damaged you need a tow. It can happen you it's so uncommon that you don't change your driving habits or not take trips because of it.

 

[NigelM]

It has certainly helped me reading the many posts from Roadster owners (and other BEV owners), sharing your experience and seeing that you have shed away your concerns about range. Some of you are even thinking of no longer owning an ICE vehicle. That confidence has helped me think through the range concerns. I'm hoping in about 5 years I too can say that I no longer own an ICE car.

As soon as our Model S is delivered we won't have an ICE anymore (ever again!).

BTW, how to have fun in an EV: I was on a long-ish trip yesterday but realized about ~60 miles from home that I had 106 miles Est left in range mode. Switched to standard, right foot went down and I had a fantastic drive back including over the Sunshine Skyway. Cost? Zero! (Charging is from my PV system) Arrived home with still almost 20 miles Est.

 

[bonnie]

As soon as our Model S is delivered we won't have an ICE anymore (ever again!).

BTW, how to have fun in an EV: I was on a long-ish trip yesterday but realized about ~60 miles from home that I had 106 miles Est left in range mode. Switched to standard, right foot went down and I had a fantastic drive back including over the Sunshine Skyway. Cost? Zero! (Charging is from my PV system) Arrived home with still almost 20 miles Est.

Hah. That's what I do in the Roadster .... need maximum range? I behave. Until I see I have plenty to make the trip. Then that accelerator is pegged!

 

[AndyM]

The question of "but, what if you run out of charge?!" reminds of of someone who is afraid to visit a foreign country, saying "what if I I find a place where no one speaks My Language?" It's non-sensical to expect to change the world and have new experiences if you are unwilling to first change yourself. So my answer to those questions is "I plan ahead where I buy gas, and I plan where I will charge up. It's as simple as that." And bring a phrase book.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

I believe it has a "neutral" setting on the car. But I may be incorrect. So I suppose you could always push. Beyond that I imagine you will be screwed, and this is why there is such a stigma with electric cars. In fact at my work place everyone asks me "What if you run out of electricity?". Well.... what if you run out of gas? I know the two aren't the same because you can get gas at every corner, so the inconvenience level is pretty high. It' s just one of those things you will have to wait for I imagine. You either believe infrastructure will expand or it won't.

EDIT: I've also wondered what the mileage reduction would be having an additional Wheel in the frunk or trunk as it doesn't come with a spare. Having a flat tire without a replacement is worse in my opinion.

Carmakers are increasingly not including spare tires anyways. They give some version of a repair kit combined with roadside assistance.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

No, it wasn't frustrating. Yes, it wasn't as fast as filling my gas tank. But it was really nice to stop and explore the area for a couple of hours. Two 70 amp chargers were near movie theaters, bookstores, and restaurants. And I only did it once each day, because I started with a full charge and spent the night where I could plug in. So I had 400+ miles each day, only stopping once for charging purposes. But anytime I stopped, I plugged in - not just when I needed it. There are a lot of plugs out there.

I had one time where I had to charge at an RV park that wasn't ideal. Hot hot day. 40 amps. But I'd stopped for a picnic lunch, had a good book and shade, napped, and just hung out. So it wasn't the worst experience. Just a long experience (about 4 hours there). And with a supercharger network going in, I expect to take a lot of roadtrips with the X.

But then, I like roadtrips. I always have. Sometimes I just can't take an airport again (usually a weekly event) and just decide to drive if it's 1-2 days of driving.

I really, really enjoy road trips, and I plan to take some in my MS85 when i get it. For me, I've cut back on roadtrips mostly because I hate spending money on gas, so being all electric will be somewhat liberating. My main issue will be purely infrastructure based. My favorite long roadtrips are when I drive from LA to Montana/Yellowstone for camping and hiking. Taking that gear on a plane is a pain and I love the getting there part.

Until infrastructure catches up I'll have to just be careful in how I plan my trips. But as Bonnie pointed out, RV parks and many other places you wouldn't think of represent a charging opportunity. And in a worst case if you can find a 110v plug you can charge the car to full in a day (at say a ranger station while you go hiking up in the mountains).

 

[Francis Lau]

The question of "but, what if you run out of charge?!" reminds of of someone who is afraid to visit a foreign country, saying "what if I I find a place where no one speaks My Language?" It's non-sensical to expect to change the world and have new experiences if you are unwilling to first change yourself. So my answer to those questions is "I plan ahead where I buy gas, and I plan where I will charge up. It's as simple as that." And bring a phrase book.

First off, I started this thread not to be negative or to troll, so hopefully, it did not come across that way. I love the Model S and look forward to driving it everyday!

I am not sure if you are referring to my original posted questions and that it is nonsensical. My original question is to find out what options we have if we get into the worst case scenario of running out of power. I definitely plan to pay attention to the gauges and plan accordingly but I wanted to know options and procedures if it does occur.

It is ironic that you mention visiting a foreign country but I immigrated to the US in the early 90's, speak several languages and have visited many countries. In some high risk countries I visit, I also find out where the US Embassy is even though I do not plan to use it. I think to not know what to do if you run out of power is really being unwilling to change oneself to the new experience of owning an electric car.

In my 30 years of driving, I ran out of gas once due to a faulty gauge. I definitely hope never to be stranded again.

Thanks Bonnie for providing the useful bit of info about AAA. Does anyone have more info on towing or how to enable the car for towing without power. Bonnie mentioned a 12V battery.

 

[dsm363]

You should have plenty of warning before the car won't move anymore. I believe the Roadster goes into a limp more for a mile or so but am not sure. Anyway, you should have time to at least pull to the side of the road and call for a tow. The Roadster is supposed to be towed by a flatbed so might be the same for the Model S..

 

[bonnie]

Does anyone have more info on towing or how to enable the car for towing without power. Bonnie mentioned a 12V battery.

Francis - the owner's manual for the Model S has not yet been available. I mentioned the Roadster option because it seems logical to assume that the Model S will, at a minimum, mimic the Roadster. Wait a little bit for the manual and you will probably get that question fully answered plus some others.

 

[Francis Lau]

Francis - the owner's manual for the Model S has not yet been available. I mentioned the Roadster option because it seems logical to assume that the Model S will, at a minimum, mimic the Roadster. Wait a little bit for the manual and you will probably get that question fully answered plus some others.

Thanks. I will wait. This is not urgent as the answers will not affect my purchase decision.

 

[nrcooled]

First off, I started this thread not to be negative or to troll, so hopefully, it did not come across that way. I love the Model S and look forward to driving it everyday!

I am not sure if you are referring to my original posted questions and that it is nonsensical. My original question is to find out what options we have if we get into the worst case scenario of running out of power. I definitely plan to pay attention to the gauges and plan accordingly but I wanted to know options and procedures if it does occur.

It is ironic that you mention visiting a foreign country but I immigrated to the US in the early 90's, speak several languages and have visited many countries. In some high risk countries I visit, I also find out where the US Embassy is even though I do not plan to use it. I think to not know what to do if you run out of power is really being unwilling to change oneself to the new experience of owning an electric car.

In my 30 years of driving, I ran out of gas once due to a faulty gauge. I definitely hope never to be stranded again.

Thanks Bonnie for providing the useful bit of info about AAA. Does anyone have more info on towing or how to enable the car for towing without power. Bonnie mentioned a 12V battery.

Hopefully I don't overstep my bounds but I didn't see that post directed at you in a negative way by the poster.

What I will say it that this thread is helpful to me to hear real world scenarios of EV owners and how they adapt and adjust to a non-ICE existance. I was debating on getting the 85kwh pack to help alleviate the range anxiety but I realized that the two trips I take the most (read: 1 time a year) is from Northern VA to North Carolina. That trip is 261 miles one way. Either way with the 60 or 85 pack I will need to stop to recharge before getting to my mother's house in NC. From my research I have found plenty of stations along the route that do EV charging. I don't need to wait for a full charge as I will only need enough to get there with some cushion and then finish the charge when I get to her house.

What I will have to get used to is estimating charge times based upon EV station type, Volts, Amps, etc. That way I can better plan out how long the trip will take abd target which EV station is preferable to stop at to minimize time waiting for the charge.

 

[Robert.Boston]

I don't know of any airline that charges less than $100 to travel 1000 miles. It costs about $60 to drive 1000 miles (and $20 in a Model S).

The IRS allows 55.5 cents/mile, which is a cost-based figure for gasoline, maintenance, and depreciation. So, 1000 miles probably costs more like $555 when you consider all the costs, not just gasoline. If electricity costs $40 less than gasoline, then we're at $515 for 1000 miles.

 

[adric22]

I say anyone who runs out of power on the highway needs to have their picture taken and place them on a "Wall of Shame" somewhere.

There really is just no excuse for it. I mean, with an electric car you have a pretty accurate indication of your remaining range, far more so than with a gasoline car. I don't know about the Tesla but a Leaf will start having all kinds of warning bells go off the closer you get to zero. When that starts happening your priority needs to be to get off the highway and find somewhere to park and hopefully to plug-in. If you are out in the middle of nowhere then the problem was very poor planing on your part, again worthy of the wall of shame.

Having an electric car put on a flatbed on the side of a highway is an embarrassment to all of us and hurts the entire movement of EVs. This is the type of thing people fear most about an EV and there really is no reason for it.

I've had the Leaf for a year and a half and I've never even come close to running out. The lowest number I've ever seen on my range indicator was 17 miles. I'm told there may be as much as 10 "reserve" miles beyond that. So in theory I could have gone as far as 27 miles.

The idea of a truck that could come charge up your EV is pretty good, but with the lack of quick charge standardization, it would make that a more difficult proposition. And my Leaf doesn't even have the QC port so the best I could do is L2. However, if I knew I was only 2 or 3 miles away from an L2 charging station (or home) I suppose I could have them give me L2 charge for half an hour and that would be enough to give me 5 miles of range.

 

[MikeK]

For what it's worth, I've driven electric for the last 12 years (EV-1, RAV4-EV). For the last two and a half years or so, I've had a 2007 Prius as a "backup" car. I bought the Prius out of necessity when the RAV needed to have its pack replaced, and I had to be without it for a number of weeks.

I occasionally use the Prius when I have days that require more driving than I can do on one charge in the RAV (I did so this weekend, in fact), but generally it sits idle. In fact, I nearly always have to jump start the car because it is driven so infrequently.

So, I will be selling the Prius along with the RAV when the Model S arrives. The additional range of the Model S will put me into a situation where the Prius might get driven once or twice a year, and that's just not enough to warrant keeping the car, and it's not good for the car either...

I have never run out of charge with my EVs, although I have cut it close a few times. I occasionally use public charging, but I try not to depend on it because with the sparse inductive charging infrastructure that the RAV can use, there's always a chance of finding the one available charger broken, blocked, or in use. I think the situation is now much better, with wider installation of J1772 chargers that would be usable by the Model S if needed.

 

[strider]

Assuming the Model S has a front tow hook like the Roadster you could always have it towed in gear and regen will recharge the battery until you have enough range to make it to a place to charge.

 

[AndyM]

First off, I started this thread not to be negative or to troll, so hopefully, it did not come across that way. I love the Model S and look forward to driving it everyday!

I didn't think so either. I didn't take your original to be nonsensical; but it make me think about others who ask the same thing, but in a very uninformed way.
Neither was my post meant to troll... We're still in the vanguard of EV adoption, and sharing how we respond to others is important.

I like your bit about knowing where the embassy is, just in case. We're thinking along the same lines.

-andy

 

[NigelM]

Assuming the Model S has a front tow hook like the Roadster you could always have it towed in gear and regen will recharge the battery until you have enough range to make it to a place to charge.

Note: The Roadster manual specifically warns AGAINST this:

Transporting the vehicle
The only approved method of transporting
your vehicle is using a flatbed trailer or
transporter. Towing the vehicle will cause
serious damage to the power train. This
damage will not be covered by the New
Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Caution: Serious damage to the vehicle
and transmission can occur if the
vehicle is towed with the wheels on the
ground or on a suspended lift.

WARNING: NEVER tow the vehicle
using the vehicle recovery eye. Doing
so can cause serious, even fatal injury to
other motorists and can also cause
significant damage to your vehicle

The vehicle recovery eye is the "hook" and Tesla notes that it is only good for pulling the Roadster up onto a flatbed.

 

[jerry33]

The IRS allows 55.5 cents/mile, which is a cost-based figure for gasoline, maintenance, and depreciation. So, 1000 miles probably costs more like $555 when you consider all the costs, not just gasoline. If electricity costs $40 less than gasoline, then we're at $515 for 1000 miles.

To get picky about it:smile:

Fuel, tires, dealer maintenance: $0.117 cents per mile (over 136,210 miles)
Insurance: $0.03 per mile
Depreciation (assumes: $30,000 price and 300,000 mile life with zero value at the end): $0.10
Total: $0.247
Which makes $247 per 1000 miles.

However, the insurance and depreciation go on whether I drive it or not so they don't really enter into it.
So the additional cost for the trip is the fuel, tires, and maintenance at $0.117 which makes $117 per 1000 miles. If the airfare is $100 per 1000 miles (and it's likely more when you add the airport fee and parking) then I'm paying an extra $17 for the convenience.

 

[mikevbf]

There is on the Roadster. It's called Standard mode, switching to Range mode. Voila! Another 20-30 miles.

Does the car force you to change it to Range mode or does that require pre-thought as in switching modes when you have 50 miles left or something like that?