Robert Llewellyn's Fully Charged

[Mayhemm]

I didn't know we had any NDEW events.

As you can imagine, the organizers this year were a bit strapped for cash, so the media awareness budget was very near zero. :redface:

There was an event in Regina on Sept 12th, and another in Saskatoon on the 19th. Both events saw excellent turnouts (~10 vehicles and ~200 people). Next year is sure to be more high-profile, so be sure to check out the NDEW events page on their website. That's where information will be posted.

 

[S'toon]

AHHH!

The owner's manual says specifically:

CAUTION: If washing in an automatic car
wash, use Touchless car washes only.
These car washes have no parts (brushes,
etc.) that touch the surfaces of Model S.
Using any other type of car wash could
cause damage that is not covered by the
warranty.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Wow, he's not happy:

He screwed up the numbers, though. He should have written 1000-4000%, but wrote 40%.

 

[JER]

Screw-up #2 - economy & CO2 figures are distorted (especially in Europe) because of poor testing protocols, not (necessarily) the presence of defeat devices. This applies to petrol engines - including hybrids - just as much as diesels.

Diesels are intrinsically more fuel efficient because of the higher compression ratio. I agree that calling them "clean" was always a crock though, especially when they don't have SCR (which has been standard in commercial diesels for years.) In the best case, they're just marginally less horrible.

Electrification is of course the answer. You can't beat zero.

 

[brucet999]

Diesels are intrinsically more fuel efficient because of the higher compression ratio.

Actually, diesels have a higher compression ratio in order to ignite fuel without a spark, but the higher efficiency is due to greater heat value (energy) per gallon of diesel fuel compared to gasoline. Similarly, gasoline is far more efficient than alcohol fuels for the same reason.

 

[JER]

Actually, diesels have a higher compression ratio in order to ignite fuel without a spark, but the higher efficiency is due to greater heat value (energy) per gallon of diesel fuel compared to gasoline. Similarly, gasoline is far more efficient than alcohol fuels for the same reason.

You're half right, half wrong.

Higher compression is indeed required for ignition in diesels, but it also increases efficiency - i.e. more mechanical energy out per chemical energy in. A good turbodiesel can hit ~35%, whereas petrol engines seldom exceed about 28%. The reason is the compression ratio also increases the ratio of hot to cold temperature, so more energy can be extracted during expansion. In other words, the Carnot limit is higher.

Diesel has about 10% more heat of combustion per volume, which does indeed favour diesels for MPG ratings (because more energy is packed into each gallon.) This difference does nothing for actual energy efficiency, though.

As for CO2 emissions, diesel has lower CO2 output largely because of the increased energy efficiency; less heat is required for a given amount of work. Another (smaller) factor is the carbon content of the fuel per heat of combustion. Mass fraction of carbon is about 85% in both fuels, so diesel has a slight advantage due to its higher specific energy.

I'd rather talk about how electric motors are ~95% energy efficient, though. :smile:

 

[Noneduck]

The Dieselgate rant was epic! And completely on target! I also thought Llewellyn got it wrong with the 40% figure, but I think he was referring to C02 (or maybe fuel savings). Later in the video he cites claims of 120 g/km CO2 "when it is actually 150" though that is an increase of more than 40% . While I wandered around Luxembourg's narrow lanes a few months ago choking on passenger auto diesel fumes I too scoffed at the bogus and oft-repeated claims of clean diesel. Good call Robert!

 

[1208]

We can build sea defences but we can't build new lungs, diesel worse than petrol!

 

[R o b]

The latest fully charged episode is probably the only one you'll ever see about autopilot where the driver never takes his hands off the wheel.

Probably something to do with a Tesla employee doing the driving...

 

[ecarfan]

The latest fully charged episode is probably the only one you'll ever see about autopilot where the driver never takes his hands off the wheel.
Probably something to do with a Tesla employee doing the driving...

Exactly. The Tesla employee did not want to be shown taking both hands off the steering wheel, so was very careful to always keep at least one hand touching the wheel. My AP experience taught me very quickly that in road conditions that AP was designed for, I could rest my left elbow on the door armrest, right elbow on the center armrest, hands on my knees so they were very close to the wheel but not touching it or maybe with fingers resting on the bottom of the wheel, and I felt comfortable and quite safe.
I see no need to keep my hands in a traditional driving position on the wheel while using AP because then I was constantly mindful of not exerting too much pressure on the wheel and turning AP off when I did not intend to. The act of maintaining traditional hand positions on the wheel but not being able to fully support my arms on the wheel with a firm hand grip was not comfortable. I don't think that would work on a long drive.

 

[JRP3]

The act of maintaining traditional hand positions on the wheel but not being able to fully support my arms on the wheel with a firm hand grip was not comfortable. I don't think that would work on a long drive.

Interesting, as a bear, (non owner), on Seeking Alpha was trying to claim this exact thing, but an actual owner replied and said he could fully support his arms on the wheel and it wasn't an issue.

 

[wdolson]

Exactly. The Tesla employee did not want to be shown taking both hands off the steering wheel, so was very careful to always keep at least one hand touching the wheel. My AP experience taught me very quickly that in road conditions that AP was designed for, I could rest my left elbow on the door armrest, right elbow on the center armrest, hands on my knees so they were very close to the wheel but not touching it or maybe with fingers resting on the bottom of the wheel, and I felt comfortable and quite safe.
I see no need to keep my hands in a traditional driving position on the wheel while using AP because then I was constantly mindful of not exerting too much pressure on the wheel and turning AP off when I did not intend to. The act of maintaining traditional hand positions on the wheel but not being able to fully support my arms on the wheel with a firm hand grip was not comfortable. I don't think that would work on a long drive.

That's the first video of autopilot from the UK that I know of. There may be a law there requiring the driver to always have a hand on the wheel. Robert LLewellyn sort of implies that at the beginning of the video.

 

[1208]

BMW with FCEV

 

[swaltner]

BMW with FCEV

BMW Rep: "Acceleration from 0-100 kilometers in less than 9 seconds"
Llewellyn: "Right, so it's pretty swift."

I guess my LEAF is "pretty swift" as well. Nothing wrong with 0-100 km/h in 9 seconds, but I wouldn't call it "swift".

 

[1208]

- - - Updated - - -

 

[wdolson]

These may be the last Fully Charged for a while, or they may be less frequent. I've read production has started on the new Red Dwarf series.

 

[ecarfan]

I found the episode about the Mirai disappointing because he got mixed up about how the hydrogen is used (at one point he called the hydrogen "the battery") and he failed to point out that hydrogen does not store energy, as a battery does, but that the fuel cell uses hydrogen to create electrical energy which is then stored in the battery which then drives the motor. A rather inefficient and incredibly complicated way to power a car. He also failed to examine how much carrying capacity in terms of people and trunk space the Mirai offers as compared to similar size cars. In addition he neglected to mention the lackluster acceleration offered by the Mirai. He did speak about the lack of hydrogen filling stations but simply repeated the Toyota talking point about how the car can be filled in 5 minutes (at one point he even said "3 minutes" which is incorrect) but no mention of the cost of a hydrogen filling station "per filling nozzle" or the time it takes to pressurize the station in between fills. The public is woefully ignorant about hydrogen filling stations and assumes that they are just like gas stations when in fact they are slower by over an order of magnitude in terms of how many "fills" they can provide over a given time period while costing far removed to buld.

 

[Ugliest1]

I found the episode about the Mirai disappointing <snip>

Excellent points all, thought the same things that it needed far more "balance" by pointing out real life issues. I liked the house and grounds, though!

 

[S'toon]

I suspect that Llewellyn is constrained a bit. If he criticizes too much, he loses access. Companies allow him to review their cars for publicity after all.

In the past he has talked about how hydrogen comes from natural gas, and therefore isn't truly a clean fuel, and the fact that the people pushing for fool cell vehicles are the petroleum companies.

 

[wdolson]

I suspect that Llewellyn is constrained a bit. If he criticizes too much, he loses access. Companies allow him to review their cars for publicity after all.

In the past he has talked about how hydrogen comes from natural gas, and therefore isn't truly a clean fuel, and the fact that the people pushing for fool cell vehicles are the petroleum companies.

He made the point in this video that hydrogen can be made from water with renewable energy, which is true. I agree that he isn't going to trash anything too much because he does want to keep access.