Raven Model S: worth it or wait?

[vapor trail]

Curious how time with judge the Raven MS. In many ways it's the most refined MS to date (although it lacks options available in prior iterations such as real leather, sunroof and ventilated seats). Add to that the free ludicrous offer to current Tesla owners and it becomes a very tempting upgrade. But then there is all the scuttlebutt on the pending refresh, which may include a spartan Model 3 type interior, significant battery range upgrade, V3 charging speeds and possibly an exterior refresh. Such drastic changes may leave those of us who upgraded to the Raven in a state of regret--or make us glad we took the plunge. The pending changes may not make for a "better" Model S.

I formerly owned an e46 generation of the BMW M3 (2005). IMO, that remains the best M3 produced by BMW. Sure, they've added more tech, but the direction they went with a V8, for example, loses some of the spirit of the M3 -- as does the increasing prevalence of automatic transmissions.

So, could the Raven be the e46 of the Model S? I guess time will tell. In the meantime I'm struggling with the known chance to get an amazing Model S with ludicrous speed vs the unknown of forgoing that chance for what's behind door number 2.

 

[Browncoat]

I took delivery of a 'new' 2018 P100DL two months ago for a price that should have landed me a high-end M3.

I have zero regrets and am not concerned with the Raven or refresh in the near term. I LOVE my car as much as one can ascribe such an emotion to an inanimate object.

With all the announcements of late, my decision would not have changed.

 

[vapor trail]

Awesome! Glad to hear! My inclination is to go for it and grab a Raven. Frankly, if the interior refresh is in the spirit of the Model 3, I'd regret missing out on the Raven P100DL. I think for many, this may end up being a "classic" Model S (like my former e46).

 

[jdw]

I ended up buying a Raven for much the same reason. I really like the clean lines of the 3 and it was a blast to drive the Performance version. However, I couldn't get used to a single screen where you couldn't have maps, energy and music up at the same time. If the speed and autopilot display was a HUD or if it had a center binnacle like the S to recover the left 1/3 of the display, it likely would have been fine.

But, after four years of an 85D, turns out all I really wanted was a faster MCU, up-to-date autopilot, improved suspension, better range and a quicker car. Raven with a Ludicrous upgrade delivers all of that. And, with the "loyalty" Ludicrous upgrade and a decent trade in value it was an easy path.

I may regret this in the fall, especially if Tesla nails the upgrade, but it will likely be (much?) more expensive. As a former owner of a late E39 BMW I understand what you mean about the potential for it to be a classic as it is the culmination of 7 years of Model S iterations.

I will miss the leather and the pano roof ....

 

[vapor trail]

Nice. Very cool. I'm coming from a 2015 90D. Same incentive to upgrade as you.

 

[Saghost]

My crystal ball is cloudy.

The Project Raven cars are substantially more refined than past versions - quieter, smoother, with a smoother Autopilot - and of course more efficient. While there are a few things I wish they still offered, these are clearly the definitive version for now.

What's coming next is, as always, a really good question. Tesla never stops innovating, which is a lot of how these cars got more refined. I'm sure there will be great new features in future cars, and things offered now that we'll miss to a greater or lesser extent.

 

[Saxgod]

Dual motor rear and single in front may be worth waiting for. Not called raven though.

 

[vapor trail]

I suppose you're right about dual rear motors. More efficient? Increased range? I'm sure that's coming. Will it change need for supercharger stops during a road trip? Not so sure, based on how far they're spaced out. Also, not sure how much faster the S will get. Ludicrous is aptly named.

I could never justify paying full price for the ludicrous upgrade, even with a newer model.

 

[jdw]

I do wonder what type of motors they might do the "tri-motor" with. The Raven split of the inductance motor in the rear and the reluctance motor in the front makes sense in terms of being able to sleep the bigger rear inductance motor. Would they develop a new smaller inductance motor for the rear (x2) or flip it around with all new motors?

 

[Zaxxon]

I'm picking up a Raven X next week so my situation is a little different, but maybe my perspective is applicable.

I jumped on the Raven because the upgrades are functional and by all indications significant: the new suspension looks to be great, and the 10% range increase is a big deal for my family's road trips (especially on the X where pre-Raven was sub-300).

I would have preferred in an ideal world to have a mild interior refresh to more closely match the 3 (one electronically-controlled vent, no separate Autopilot stalk, no mirror buttons, etc), but a few things pushed me over the edge: the refresh may or may not be to my liking. I know I like the current interior. The next upgrade may also include battery and motor upgrades that boost the price significantly. And the tax credit halves again at the end of June.

So today's X is the best X that's existed thus far, at the best bang/buck ratio we've seen, with a significant tax incentive still around. And I can drive it next week.

YOLO.

 

[AMPd]

Go with the raven if that’s what you like, something better is always coming and always will be
Key to being happy with your car is just love it for what it is. And if you like what it is, get it

 

[Saghost]

I do wonder what type of motors they might do the "tri-motor" with. The Raven split of AC inductance motor in the rear and DC reluctance motor in the front makes sense in terms of being able to sleep the bigger rear AC motor. Would they develop a new smaller inductance motor for the rear (x2) or flip it around with all new motors?

I was thinking you'd flip it - two switched reluctance motors in the rear, one induction motor in front you can put to sleep as needed. Since the switched reluctance motors are probably cheaper to make as well as being more efficient, it's likely cheaper to do that way, and it lets you keep a RWD bias for people while staying efficient.

Might depend on the efficiency curves - if freeway cruise loads are far enough into the corner that efficiency falls off on two motors, you might be better off keeping only the single motor energized (though it'd still be a more expensive solution to build.)

 

[Saghost]

I would have preferred in an ideal world to have a mild interior refresh to more closely match the 3 (one electronically-controlled vent, no separate Autopilot stalk, no mirror buttons, etc), but a few things pushed me over the edge: the refresh may or may not be to my liking. I know I like the current interior.

One of the things that convinced me to upgrade now was the prospect of losing the AP stalk and display zones in an interior refresh. The stalk is much more flexible than the solutions folks are stuck with on the 3, and I'm very glad to have it.

 

[Zaxxon]

The stalk is much more flexible than the solutions folks are stuck with on the 3, and I'm very glad to have it.

In what way?

 

[Saghost]

In what way?

Mostly the convenience of snapping to speed limits and jumping up or down by ones and fives - and being able to save the right hand scroll wheel for climate temps.

I'm told you can snap to the speed limit on a 3 by tapping it on the screen, but both that and rolling the wheel to set speeds seem awkward to me. In fairness, I've never had occasion to try it.

 

[vapor trail]

I like having a dedicated stalk as well. The smaller Model 3 steering wheel is definitely more sporty and a blast, but I prefer having a dedicated stalk for autopilot functions. Current model S has a better balance of software controls vs physical controls compared to the model 3, and the stalk feels natural.

 

[Zaxxon]

Mostly the convenience of snapping to speed limits and jumping up or down by ones and fives - and being able to save the right hand scroll wheel for climate temps.

I'm told you can snap to the speed limit on a 3 by tapping it on the screen, but both that and rolling the wheel to set speeds seem awkward to me. In fairness, I've never had occasion to try it.

The speed adjustment is just as easy on the 3. Can roll up by 1 or 5 as well as adjust follow distance easily. You're right that you lose the ability to use that scroll wheel to adjust temps, but swiping the bottom of the screen works fine for me on the 3.

Thanks for explaining.

 

[jdw]

One of the things that convinced me to upgrade now was the prospect of losing the AP stalk and display zones in an interior refresh. The stalk is much more flexible than the solutions folks are stuck with on the 3, and I'm very glad to have it.

Absolutely. Not to mention windshield washers/wipers ...

 

[Zaxxon]

I like having a dedicated stalk as well. The smaller Model 3 steering wheel is definitely more sporty and a blast, but I prefer having a dedicated stalk for autopilot functions. Current model S has a better balance of software controls vs physical controls compared to the model 3, and the stalk feels natural.

The one hill I'll die on is the electronic vent control. That's just flat-out better on the 3. Tying HVAC entirely to the driver profile is a godsend (my wife and I have drastically different preferences in this regard and it's great to not have to adjust multiple vents and controls every time I enter the car). When that comes to S/X I'll regret not having it. No biggie, though, when compared to waiting months or more for that upgrade.

 

[JPoldo]

When buying bleeding edge technology, there's always something faster, more innovative, or functional on the horizon. You should buy the current technology if it will significantly improve your quality of life during the wait time for the next generation product. Put some value on having the product now vs waiting 6-12 months. If little quality of life improvement, wait for the new model. Weigh the alternatives. Clearly the Raven is superior to my 2017 MS, but I've immensely enjoyed driving my car for the past 19 months. And yes, I frequently open the sun roof.