Puget Sound Energy (PSE) - time-of-use pilot

[Poiu]

For some of those in greater Seattle, I thought I'd raise awareness of the pilot that PSE is running that should, in theory, benefit EV drivers. PSE states the program is fully subscribed, yet some customers may still enroll????

PSE: Time-of-use (TOU) pilot program / rate summaries

I've been on the pilot for the last 3 months and believe they're running the pilot for a couple of years, then will decide whether to make generally available. I think Seattle ran one of these pilots previously, but decided not to move ahead with it. BTW, I've spoken to folks for Seattle City & Light and PSE - no-one was concerned about EV adoption causing the grid issues in the Seattle area - a common anti-EV FUD talking point.

Compared to the standard constant rate, with TOU there are peak times (Mon-Fri 7AM-10AM & 5PM-8PM) with the rest of the time being off-peak. Rates during off-peak are less than the regular rate, rates during peak are ~2-3 times higher. Obviously, the idea is to encourage load (washer, dryer, dishwasher, EV charging, etc.) to move to off-peak times, reducing peak demand.

Standard constant rates (Schedule 7) - $0.122 for first 600 KWH, $0.142 for over 600 KWH.

TOU rates (Schedule 307) - $0.345 for peak (Oct - March), $0.23 for peak (Apr - Sept), $0.096 for off-peak.

Is it worth it? We consume ~1600 kWh per month and save about $25-$30 a month, compared to the standard rate. Should save a bit more in the summer, with the cheaper peak rate. We managed to shift loads fairly easily, so we only consume about 10% of power at peak times - obviously, EVs charge at night. Seems like a good idea to me and hope they move ahead with it after the pilot. I believe this is common in other states.

 

[supergeek]

I looked at this and ultimately didn't pull the trigger, since the most discounted rates are only a 5c/kwh discount over base rates, where as peak rates are 10c or 20c/kwh more expensive. You need to be using 2x-4x the power in offpeak times to just be break even with the old rates.

By my rough math, EV charging is still only about 50% of our power usage with heating and AC being large contributors that can't really be timeshifted.

 

[Big Earl]

For some of those in greater Seattle, I thought I'd raise awareness of the pilot that PSE is running that should, in theory, benefit EV drivers. PSE states the program is fully subscribed, yet some customers may still enroll????

PSE: Time-of-use (TOU) pilot program / rate summaries

I've been on the pilot for the last 3 months and believe they're running the pilot for a couple of years, then will decide whether to make generally available. I think Seattle ran one of these pilots previously, but decided not to move ahead with it. BTW, I've spoken to folks for Seattle City & Light and PSE - no-one was concerned about EV adoption causing the grid issues in the Seattle area - a common anti-EV FUD talking point.

Compared to the standard constant rate, with TOU there are peak times (Mon-Fri 7AM-10AM & 5PM-8PM) with the rest of the time being off-peak. Rates during off-peak are less than the regular rate, rates during peak are ~2-3 times higher. Obviously, the idea is to encourage load (washer, dryer, dishwasher, EV charging, etc.) to move to off-peak times, reducing peak demand.

Standard constant rates (Schedule 7) - $0.122 for first 600 KWH, $0.142 for over 600 KWH.

TOU rates (Schedule 307) - $0.345 for peak (Oct - March), $0.23 for peak (Apr - Sept), $0.096 for off-peak.

Is it worth it? We consume ~1600 kWh per month and save about $25-$30 a month, compared to the standard rate. Should save a bit more in the summer, with the cheaper peak rate. We managed to shift loads fairly easily, so we only consume about 10% of power at peak times - obviously, EVs charge at night. Seems like a good idea to me and hope they move ahead with it after the pilot. I believe this is common in other states.

Not worth it for me. The off-peak rates aren't low enough to justify the hassle of actively managing electricity usage.

In Virginia, we signed up for Dominion's very aggressive TOU plan that included demand charges (schedule 1S). We had gas heat, hot water and cooking, allowing me to time-shift >90% of our usage to off-peak. I worked it pretty hard and managed to average out at 10 cents per kWh all-in.

Our 24/7 rate on PSE works out to be 13.3 cents per kWh, all-in. Being all-electric and from the 70s, my home would take a lot of investment to get it to a place where I could do setbacks during on-peak time without freezing our butts off. Doing any sort of TOU with PSE would undoubtedly increase my bill.

 

[BarryL]

I would be interested in this IF the peak rates were not so expensive.

 

[Poiu]

My feedback to PSE would be that the difference between TOU and standard rates isn't enough and may not incentivize enough people to move. My blended rate for TOU is 11.8 cents per kWh compared to 13.4 cents if I was on the standard rates. It's easy for me to shift loads though, so I'll take the ~$25 savings per month.

I do think there will be higher savings in the Summer - the peak rate is lower ($0.23 compared to $0.34) AND the only peak times are 5PM-8PM (no morning peak period).

 

[Genie]

If I had solar panels this plan might be very attractive but just using grid power the peak rate is much too high.

 

[Marcboy]

I signed up in November, it definitively lowered my bills.

In my last bill I used 94% of my electricity during off peak, charging the car mostly. I do try to be careful and run power intensive appliances at night also, ust back to child's time routine for me.

 

[blue y]

Holy *sugar* those peak rates are high.

Glad I'm SnoPud.

We're finally supposed to be getting smart meters, thinking about paying the fee to stay with a manual read, I do NOT want ToU. I'm happy to charge middle of night voluntarily, but with the baseload servers and stuff I have, paying peak rates like that do not make sense.

 

[Marcboy]

PSE just added Tesla to their Flex Saver Event devices.

Basically, when they have a surge of power demand, they ask your device to not use power (you can override it from the car).

They give back 50 cts per kwh, so potentially, you can make $$ out of this.

The surges happens 7-10 Am and 5-8 PM, from what I saw.

1- Make sure to always charge at these times
2- when a surge demand happens, you can won't charge, and you will get back 50 cts per KWH not sued at that time
3- I think I use around 10 KWH per hour => 3 hours = 30 = $6

Rough math, I still have to see when it happens + I can't really charge at these times . But I got $100 to sign up, so yay !

 

[Marcboy]

BTW, referral to get and extra $10 when you sign up

FlexSaver™ - Save Money on Electricity and Get Rewards

Save money on your electricity bills and contribute to your local community's energy sustainability with FlexSaver, a free program by AutoGrid. Join now and start saving!

tinyurl.com

 

[Big Earl]

If I have three Teslas can I triple my winnings?

 

[Big Earl]

Against my better judgement, I have enrolled. We’ll see how this goes.

 

[Spaghett]

PSE just added Tesla to their Flex Saver Event devices.

Basically, when they have a surge of power demand, they ask your device to not use power (you can override it from the car).

They give back 50 cts per kwh, so potentially, you can make $$ out of this.

The surges happens 7-10 Am and 5-8 PM, from what I saw.

1- Make sure to always charge at these times
2- when a surge demand happens, you can won't charge, and you will get back 50 cts per KWH not sued at that time
3- I think I use around 10 KWH per hour => 3 hours = 30 = $6

Rough math, I still have to see when it happens + I can't really charge at these times . But I got $100 to sign up, so yay !

I was looking into this over the weekend, and I still don't quite understand how they calculate how much you should earn during the "don't charge" period. How can they know how much energy you would have hypothetically used?

 

[Marcboy]

They look at the same time period in the last 4 (?) days, do an average, and compare to the day they have a surge.

So the trick is, in summer, they are going to do surges 5-8 likely in the evening.

Since weekends are low rate, I will make sure to charge during that time, and do all my power intensive tasks, with the hope that comes monday they will have a surge at that time.

Lol, not sure it will work. I am part of the time of use and flex events, I do get some money back on every event without doing anything special, and overall my bill is 15 % lower since I moved to TOU. I use 94% of my power during off peak, because 100 KW battery in my car

 

[Spaghett]

They look at the same time period in the last 4 (?) days, do an average, and compare to the day they have a surge.

Do you have a source on this?

 

[Marcboy]

Do you have a source on this?

Yes, their FAQ

"We calculate your energy savings for each Flex event using a baseline. This baseline is created by averaging the energy consumption of the four highest-usage days among the five weekdays before the event. Your goal is to use less energy during the event than this baseline. We also consider energy usage in the two hours before the event and the hour after the event, and make adjustments based on higher or lower usage during that time (e.g., 3-4 p.m. and 7-8 p.m. for a 5-7 p.m. event)."

So 4 highest usage in the last 5 week days. So far all the events are happening 7-10 AM and 5-8 PM, so this is where you need to use the power on regular days.

Now the issue is that if you are also a TOU member, these are the high peak times, so likely I won't gain much, except if they place surge on non peak times.

(Edited because I found the updated FAQ)

 

[Spaghett]

Yes, their FAQ...

Ah ok, your quote helped me find the FAQ in question. It looks like you are referencing the FAQ on this page: Flex events

I've only been exposed to this page and its FAQ which has none of this information: Flex EV

I guess I'll assume for now the information on the non-EV flex page is accurate. I did send an email to their support team this afternoon asking this same question, so hopefully they can confirm the assumption.

If the assumption does hold to be true though, then this just feels like a really weird program, because like @Marcboy says, for someone in the program, the ideal strategy is to always try and charge during the flex event window. That's a weird thing for PSE to basically incentivize because I would assume the flex event window is in general, when electricity demand is highest.

Right now, I restrict charging till after 11:30PM because I've heard that the night is when the grid has the lowest amount of load placed on it. But if I was to join this program, I guess I'll stop that and do as @Marcboy suggests. This seems so counterproductive for PSE!

 

[Big Earl]

My understanding is that for EVs, it calculates your payment based on the amount of time the system is curtailing your charging, combined with the charge rate of your setup. If they curtail you for two hours on an 11 kW home charging setup (like mine), expect payment for 22 kWh ($11). Perhaps its more complex than that.

 

[Genie]

I wonder if PSE ever considered that people would purposely charge at peak demand hours and rates in the hope of getting a little rebate.

 

[Marcboy]

Would love to get their actual methodology spec. Shouldn't be that complex.

Younger, poorer me would totally try to game that system

I don't expect much savings from the EV related flex event, but I already got some cash back on flex events, it is better than nothing, + sign up incentives.

And for sure I am saving money with TOU, 3 bills now, and I constantly save around 10-15%. That is very easy to estimate since they send you usage in both high and low peak times.

TOU and flex events are 2 separate programs, but can be combined