Premium Sound - Weak Rear Sound

[Robert.Boston]

It should go without saying, but the quality of the input is very important. I strongly urge audiophiles to use FLAC files stored on large USB sticks to achieve the best quality sound. (The difference between streaming audio and FLAC is painfully obvious, particularly after my Reus upgrades.)

 

[craigbeat]

It should go without saying, but the quality of the input is very important. I strongly urge audiophiles to use FLAC files stored on large USB sticks to achieve the best quality sound. (The difference between streaming audio and FLAC is painfully obvious, particularly after my Reus upgrades.)

Yeah, it was a FLAC file they played in the showroom, but really wasn't blown away by the quality. I'm pretty certain that a software update would fix it. Mr Musk's comment on the 'new codec' seems bizarre, though, as I don't think the issue is codec related - surely the codec is the codec? Instead, I think it's a DSP issue. I'm hoping it's software. When is 6.2 due out? I think I'll wait for that before placing an order so I can hear the difference.

 

[Torpedo Ted]

I hear way to much the sound coming from the driver side speaker, and from the front in general.

Uhm, are you confusing Movie with Music? Music is supposed to be played from two speakers in front of you... Unless you have passengers in the rear, the rear speakers shouldn't be needed at all...
And the surround feature must be disabled, that's pretty obvious for anyone familiar with audio. Also, never increase bass/treble/mid. Instead, decrease the ones you dislike.

 

[David100]

Dear Torpedo Ted,

Of course I agree with you.
My +25k set-up at home is pure stereo, based on Summit X Martin Logan speakers and Plinius electronics.
My system doesn't even have bass/treble levels. I never change the original sound. I want to hear the raw recording - as designed by the producer.
The first thing I did during my testing was of course to switch off the dolby DSP.
I agree with you that true audiophiles are about stereo, not surround / home-theater.

In a car you are very close to the speakers - much more than at home.
To have the speakers blend away, you need some rear power - otherwise the fronts are way too bright.

If this weren't true, why not just have two speakers in the car... why bothering with twelve ? Why having different settings for pano roof VS hard roof ?
A car is a closed box with reflection - not a home auditorium. Most of the "walls" of the car are made of glass... which are very bad for good acoustics. Optimal sound needs absorption not reflection. The best auditoriums are not symmetric for better diffusion and avoid resonance. A car is... symmetric.
So in a car you have to compensate, with other speakers to balance the full set-up.

I stick to the idea that It is not acceptable to have the drive speaker shouting in your ear like that.
Good balanced volume also provides immersion at lower levels - confort, no fatigue.
Also, in a 5-sitting car the sound system has to be designed for everybody (children listening - parents talking).
Not the case in the Tesla for what I have heard.

Still... not a deal breaker for me. I chose for Premium Sound and I am eagerly awaiting my S85D. I am just hoping that the sound will improve.
I have the feeling that the sound has not been a priority these two last years for Tesla, because they have so much to work on to successfully launch such a disrupting car company.
I just hope the time will come for more attention to sound - hopefully by software means.

- - - Updated - - -

I stick to the idea that It is not acceptable to have the drive speaker shouting in your ear like that.

Typo : driveR speaker

 

[CHG-ON]

Hello happy Tesla owners (will join in June - can't wait).

I know there are already many threads about Premium Sound VS Standard Sound.
This is why, in this thread I would like to focus on Premium Sound only.
Not debating whether it is worth upgrading or not.

I would say I have a fairly good experience about what hi-fi sound can be.
I am a long-time Hi-Fi enthusiast, have a deep-in-the-5-digits-range set-up at home and owned several cars with high end sound.
For most Hi-Fi enthusiasts (including me), premium sound is not about booming sound but immersive and true-live sound.
The absolute set-up would be the one where you cannot tell anymore if the band is playing for real around you, or if it is just your set-up playing.

It is also very important that you cannot tell anymore where the speakers are - they have to completely blend away.

With closed eyes it should become impossible to tell where the speakers are with a true hi-fi set-up, when you are in the sweet spot.
Well, now, back to the Tesla hi-fi premium sound, using uncompressed hi-res flac audio files on USB key.

Of course, I understand a car hi-fi set-up can not beat a premium home set-up, nor can a 2.500 € car set-up beat a 10.000 € car set-up.

But still...

To my ears, the Tesla premium sound is not immersive enough.

I hear way to much the sound coming from the driver side speaker, and from the front in general.

For testing purpose, I played pushing the sound into each corner of the car.

When the sound is fully pushed to the back speakers the problem seems quite obvious.
The sound is very weak back there, even when pushed to max volume.

Again, I am not talking about booming sound, but all-range sound.
And I am not talking about lound sound neither but good balanced sound.

This is to the point where I am wondering if the back speakers are working or are defective, or are they massively underpowered ?

I feel a very obvious Front/Back Balance problem.
Is it just me, or was it a bad car (I did this test in a demo car - my S85D will be delivered (with hi-fi sound) in early June (in Europe)).
Have I not played enough with the settings (I have played quite some time though).
Have I not found the child protection back sound security switch level ?
Is this better in more recently built cars (some components changed in stealth mode) ?
Will the new Codecs change something (I guess not, since it was a stereo recording so the codecs are not involved in front / back distribution) ?

I hope it was just a defective car.
Do you experience the same thing (Try maxing rear volume, compared to front).Or not ?

Thanks a lot.

Of course, I am still very enthusiast about the car in general - and the wait becomes exponentially painful.
But obviously... this sound thing bothers me somehow.

Nope. You're right. Though I don't experience the rear sound as any weaker than I would expect, being farther from the center of the sound stage. My issue is how incredibly difficult it is to balance. I completely agree with your comment regarding speakers being invisible. I have a '07 Acura RDX that has MUCH better staging. Everybody who gets in the car says it sounds great, no matter where they sit. Not ONE comment on my hyper expensive techno marvel car. The sound is way to easily located to one area of the car than another, which makes getting the immersive experience impossible for me. It sounds good. But flat and not alive. My hope is that the new CODEC might help solve this problem. And I have compared the exact same files in each car.

PS: the Dolby, which is awesome in my Acura, stinks in the MS. Very bad implementation and I am surprised that Dolby let it fly. They are (or at least were) known for being very particular about the end result of their technology when implemented.

I don't think it is a speaker placement issue. I think it's a software processing issue. But I have read of people replacing the rear door speakers only, and being happier with the sound.

I know that music is supposed to be in front of us, like a concert hall, but my preference is to be immersed from all sides. Yes, I am a heathen. In order to get something close to immersion, but not really, I have to go so far as to set my balance at 11 to the right and between 6-8 to the rear, depending upon track. Thereby essentially shutting dow the driver's side of the music. If I leave it balanced to the "center" all I really hear is the music coming from directly in front of me with practically no R-L staging at all. Almost sounds like mono, but not quite. The HiFi is the only disappointment I have with the car. Though I must say, I have never been impressed with stock systems. They always need work of some sort.

I will upgrade at some point.

- - - Updated - - -

"The sound system hardware in the Model S will impress even the most discerning mu-sic lover.

Not!

 

[Cyclone]

I wanted to bring in some perspective from a non-audiophile. I understand what everyone has been saying about the shout from the front, but I did not have first-hand experience with it until today. Today I had the pleasure of driving another forum member's MS with the UHFS (his car does NOT have a pano roof in case that makes a difference). I did NOT experience a feeling of sound being biased to the front using the FM radio. I was surprised, expecting to distinctly feel like I was, as one poster said it, as a concert with the band in front of me rather than on-stage with the band around me. Sadly, there was a bit of traffic and I was in a rush to get the car back to him, so I didn't get a chance to see how he has the sound stage configured.

That said, I do think there is significant software processing going on here, which may get tweaked with the next firmware. When I raised the volume from 2 all the way to 11, there was an initial volume increase and greater immersion into the music, but it took roughly 2-3 seconds before the sound really filled the cabin. I don't know if I lucked out with what the local radio station was playing (Uptown Funk) or what, but that first 2-3 seconds I was expecting to be disappointed and, if I wasn't patient, would have felt the system is lackluster.

For now, this non-audiophile now wants to check the box for UFHS rather than standard audio!

 

[Andyw2100]

Is the premium sound system able to play lossless 5.1 correctly? Any chance it can play Blu Ray or DVD-A?

I see no one has answered your questions.

I'm not sure what lossless 5.1 is, but it does play lossless FLAC files. Whether it is playing them correctly or not, I can't say. As for Blu Ray or DVD-A, the answer would be no. The system doesn't even have a CD player.

 

[Gizmotoy]

That said, I do think there is significant software processing going on here, which may get tweaked with the next firmware. When I raised the volume from 2 all the way to 11, there was an initial volume increase and greater immersion into the music, but it took roughly 2-3 seconds before the sound really filled the cabin. I don't know if I lucked out with what the local radio station was playing (Uptown Funk) or what, but that first 2-3 seconds I was expecting to be disappointed and, if I wasn't patient, would have felt the system is lackluster.

Did you happen to pay attention to the FM signal meter? On FM channels with HD radio complements, the transition between base FM and HD Radio sounds almost exactly as you describe it. If the signal degrades slightly you may lose lock on the HD audio and the car automatically reverts to plain FM, only to transition back when you can again get the HD version.

 

[Bencredible]

I have long thought the same thing -- the sound is not immersive. I also think it has some strange DSP/EQ settings applied.

In my 2004 Lexus RX330 we had amazing sound that felt like it enveloped you (before we blew out all of the speakers). In the Tesla we have pretty great sound from the front speakers, but very weak sound from the rear. I'm assuming that the rear of the car uses a lesser speaker system and/or the amp is able to drive the front speakers harder and/or they just configured it wrong.

I even question the overall tonal quality of the speakers and DSP as well. I think they have a lot of performance tuning to do with the audio. It is cute that the volume can go to 11, but when the quality just isn't there that fun little quirk doesn't matter much. One thing I have been meaning to do is a pink noise measurement to see how the car actually performs. Want to see the overall system from the drivers seat perspective and then adjust the sound to each of the 4 corners of the car and see how each quadrant does independently. I'm hoping that with this data I may be able to tweak the EQ and balance to such a point that it is closer to what I'm hoping for. Just need time to actually make that happen, and sadly time is one thing I don't have in abundance right now

 

[Cyclone]

Did you happen to pay attention to the FM signal meter? On FM channels with HD radio complements, the transition between base FM and HD Radio sounds almost exactly as you describe it. If the signal degrades slightly you may lose lock on the HD audio and the car automatically reverts to plain FM, only to transition back when you can again get the HD version.

I did not, but I can definitely check that the next time I see him. I did a test drive last week at a Tesla store in South Florida, and with the rep telling us about the various features and being my first time driving a MS (a P85D no less), I totally forgot to check the sound system. This time, I played around with it a bit, but didn't do too much for fear of messing with the settings of the owner. I will have to play around with it some more at a standstill so I can be sure what I checking and changing. I wanted to try pushing sound to the rears only to hear the difference, but I don't yet have enough familiarity to do so. It will come. Now the anxious wait till I get my MS!

 

[Pinot.Noir]

I see no one has answered your questions.

I'm not sure what lossless 5.1 is, but it does play lossless FLAC files. Whether it is playing them correctly or not, I can't say. As for Blu Ray or DVD-A, the answer would be no. The system doesn't even have a CD player.

Thanks for the answer. Disappointing that it lacks a CD/DVD player. It would've been nice to be able to listen to 5.1 DVD-A and Blu-Ray Audio discs on the road. I never have the time to listen to much of my collection at home.

 

[CHG-ON]

I would recommend testing with another source aside from FM. OTA FM is low quality and FMHD is too compressed. Trying a more lossless format will allow you to better gauge the quality. Though, that being said, I still believe the system is lacking what it could with improved processing, speakers and perhaps more or cleaner power. eg: what Reus has been able to accomplish with their upgrade.

 

[Khatsalano]

S85D with premium sound package delivered in February 2015. Same issue ... rear volume is weak, but even weaker when you adjust fader towards the back.

- K

 

[David100]

Any improvements with 6.2 ?

 

[J1mbo]

Yeah, it was a FLAC file they played in the showroom, but really wasn't blown away by the quality. I'm pretty certain that a software update would fix it. Mr Musk's comment on the 'new codec' seems bizarre, though, as I don't think the issue is codec related - surely the codec is the codec? Instead, I think it's a DSP issue. I'm hoping it's software. When is 6.2 due out? I think I'll wait for that before placing an order so I can hear the difference.

FWIW, there is a codec issue in 6.1 (and previous versions) which causes USB (mp3) music to literally skip a beat, mid-track. I thought it was a previously-unknown production error with the track the first time I heard it, but it has happened many times since. It is not manually reproducable - when going back again to the same part of the track, it plays perfectly.

I have the UHFS and it is - by far - the best OEM set up I have heard.

As mentioned above, make sure that Dolby is off.

Also, try to use a flat (0) EQ profile. The system will have been optimized for this.

Finally, the sub isn't powerful / subtle enough to be adequate with volume < 4, so a small bump in the low EQ can help a lot if you listen to bass-heavy music but still want to talk to your passengers...

 

[Andyw2100]

FWIW, there is a codec issue in 6.1 (and previous versions) which causes USB (mp3) music to literally skip a beat, mid-track. I thought it was a previously-unknown production error with the track the first time I heard it, but it has happened many times since. It is not manually reproducable - when going back again to the same part of the track, it plays perfectly.

I'm glad to hear you say this. I'm pretty sure this is true of FLAC files as well. I thought I was crazy and not hearing things correctly, as I've also experienced this. A few times I've gone back to try to see if I could hear it again on the recording, and as you say, the recording would play perfectly the next time.

Do you have any reason to believe the issue is limited to MP3 files, and does not exist with FLAC files, and that I'm still just nuts, or am I likely to be experiencing the same thing that you've experienced?

Thanks!

 

[J1mbo]

Not tested FLAC, as only got 320k MP3 in the car, but would not be surprised if this applies to multiple formats.

 

[hiroshiy]

Overall I agree with OP that the rear is weak. The whole balance and quality of UHFS sound is acceptable to me as an in-car audio system. I'm sort of audiophile with approx $10K home audio.

The thing I can't accept is skipping some of sound data, as J1mbo pointed out. Really annoying. Reproduce 100% on almost every track.

 

[llstringfield@at]

Hello All,

I just got my P85D last week. I too ordered the upgraded sound system for $2,500.00 more. I selected every option available (except the Cold weather package, as I live in Houston Texas). I always do this with any car I own, I think it helps with resale in the future. Since I never owned a tesla with the standard sound system I cannot compare. Does the standard sound system come with all the same apps? IE what is the main difference in the 2? The reason I ask is I also am sorely disappointed in the sound system. I do know that there is a sever lack of power (AMP Wattage) and I understand this because POWER takes power. Most mega watt system need a 00 cable ran to them. If you put a 1,000 watt amplifier in this car, you would be lucky to get to the end of your driveway. Another very SORE spot with me is the lack of automatic volume control. MOST cars now days (at a lot lower prices) have that ability. I doubt if you will ever get a electric car to have super sound. But at least the volume could go up as speed increases, AND down as speed decreases.

Larry

 

[Andyw2100]

FWIW, there is a codec issue in 6.1 (and previous versions) which causes USB (mp3) music to literally skip a beat, mid-track. I thought it was a previously-unknown production error with the track the first time I heard it, but it has happened many times since. It is not manually reproducable - when going back again to the same part of the track, it plays perfectly.

I'm glad to hear you say this. I'm pretty sure this is true of FLAC files as well.

The thing I can't accept is skipping some of sound data, as J1mbo pointed out. Really annoying. Reproduce 100% on almost every track.

I don't notice this nearly as often as "almost every track" but perhaps I'm just not as observant. In any case, if this is not corrected in 6.2, anyone experiencing this should make sure to write to Tesla about it, as it is possible they don't know the issue exists.