Prank road sign fools Speed Assist.

[UberEV1]

I do think that the most effective system will still be one where these technologies provide feedback to the driver who ultimately is responsible for the decision making rather than a completely autonomous car for the near term, but it is quite clear that fully self-driving vehicles are not far away. Particularly on high speed, limited access highways where I think current look-ahead radar systems are probably better than human drivers and everything else is pretty close.

Agreed! Important lesson in autonomous controls . . . Case in point is Air France Flight 296, which in 1988 was doing a low-level fly-by at an airshow in France to demonstrate the new Airbus A320 and its advanced computer systems. The computer misinterpreted the pilot's intentions and maintained a safety mode that contributed to the plane crashing into the forest. From the source: "The crew applied full power and the pilot attempted to climb. However, the elevators did not respond to the pilot's commands, because the A320 computer system engaged its 'alpha protection' mode (meant to prevent the aircraft entering a stall.)" and "But in this instance, the pilots involved did not hesitate to fly the aircraft below its normal minimum flying speed because the whole purpose of the flyover was to demonstrate that the aircraft's computer systems would ensure lift would always be available regardless of how the pilots handle the controls."

 

[Nigel16494]

Actually I find that something is affecting the speed assist for me and it is not prank signs. I have a deep suspicion that it is the truck signs. Often the truck speed limit will be lower on some roads and the corresponding chime goes off even I am well under the limit. It also seemed to get caught by a school sign, 25mph when children are present. It seems like a great idea just needs a little work.

 

[bob_p]

There are speed limit signs that human intelligence can't easily decipher - such as speed limit signs for placed between adjacent roadways (such as highway lanes and adjacent HOV or frontage roads), where it's not always obvious which road the speed applies to.

On the area toll roads, there's a speed limit sign posted that appears to apply to the toll booth lanes - but not to the pass-through ez-tag lanes, where cars continue through at the posted highway speeds.

At best, if the speed assist is used as advice - to warn drivers of driving too fast or too slow vs. the posted speed limit, then it can be a useful feature.

But to allow the autopilot to automatically adjust vehicle speed to match the apparently posted speed could be a safety issue if it caused the car to unexpectedly increase or decrease speed in traffic when the system incorrectly interprets speed or it the car misses reading a speed limit sign (such as when the sign is blocked by another vehicle as the sign is passed).

This sounds like a cool feature - but, in practice, it could be as useful as the automatic parking in my last car - something that is cool to demo - probably not useful for real use...

 

[wk057]

My hope is that the speed limit sign reading portion of the software is not the final say on what the autopilot setup will go by when following a roadway. I'd much prefer that this be more like a cruise-control-on-steroids type setup where I get up to speed, set the autopilot, and it maintains that speed, a good following distance, and follows the road. If it is limited to the speed limit it thinks it knows, I'll just cancel my P85D order right now because that would be stupid. (Try going to speed limit on any NJ freeway and see what happens... you'll likely be in greater danger doing so than going with the flow of traffic)

 

[Nigel16494]

To be really fair, it works about 90%. It is a step above my BMW that had a fixed speed chime (I set to 79). It is useful and does save me, I have never had it report that the speed limit is more. It usually reports the speed limit is less than it really is. I guess it will err on the safe side. The fact I can have relative to the current speed limit (assessed my camera or GPS) is good. I think Tesla are clever enough to make it work as long as we keep reporting the bugs and quirks.

 

[3s-a-charm]

My Car is constantly reading incorrect speed limit signs such as exit ramp suggested speeds. If the Autopilot picks up a 40 km/h suggested speed on a 110 km/h road... will the car slow down to 40 on the highway?

 

[Cottonwood]

My Car is constantly reading incorrect speed limit signs such as exit ramp suggested speeds. If the Autopilot picks up a 40 km/h suggested speed on a 110 km/h road... will the car slow down to 40 on the highway?

On I-70 west of Denver there are many "Left lane - 55 mph minimum" signs that fool the speed limit reader. To make it worse, in many of those sections, they have the adjustable, electric speed limit signs, usually set to 65 mph, that the speed limit reader does not see.

 

[wk057]

I think the speed limit reading part of the autopilot stuff is gimmicky, personally, and will probably never use it for speed setting if there is an option to do so.

 

[BerTX]

Maybe it needs to notify the driver of the change and allow re-setting the CC setpoint to be verified (or overridden) by the driver, at least until the kinks are worked out of the sign recognition system?

I, for one, am very interested in having the car automatically adjust its speed from the road speed limit (with user-selected offset, of course). In my opinion, if this is a "gimmick", then autopilot is a gimmick, too. I don't see how autopilot can really work without it.

 

[billarnett]

Maybe it needs to notify the driver of the change and allow re-setting the CC setpoint to be verified (or overridden) by the driver, at least until the kinks are worked out of the sign recognition system?

That's a good idea. I would suggest that by default no CC set speed change is made automatically but that the driver should have a one-button method of OKing the change to the new speed limit.

I, for one, am very interested in having the car automatically adjust its speed from the road speed limit (with user-selected offset, of course). In my opinion, if this is a "gimmick", then autopilot is a gimmick, too. I don't see how autopilot can really work without it.

Perhaps then you might want the default the other way. Sounds like we might need an option.

 

[MikeBur]

That's a good idea. I would suggest that by default no CC set speed change is made automatically but that the driver should have a one-button method of OKing the change to the new speed

Is this not the way it already works? Ie.

1. Driving using cc
2. Speed limit changes, and is displayed (+any adjust value) as solid line on speedo
3. Pull cc stick toward you for ~1 second and cc set point moves to new speed

?

Perhaps then you might want the default the other way. Sounds like we might need an option.

likewise, though I agree with the current mechanism today.

Perhaps a phased approach is warranted, eg

1. Maintain current mechanism, though more noticeable indication of dramatic (perhaps pre-defined) changes, eg +/- 10mph
2. Building on the current gps database, if BOTH gps-known and image-recognized speed limits agree then automatically change cc set point
3. (actually 2b) to increase accuracy of gps-known database, enable specific bug command for notifying of speed limit errors, then apply gps loc & heading (and assume multiple instances to increase reliability/reduce spoofing), to crowd-source speed limit info. But command could be voice command, or touch screen app (enabling user to validate info before sending for accuracy).

We can always wish, eh?

 

[wk057]

In my opinion, if this is a "gimmick", then autopilot is a gimmick, too. I don't see how autopilot can really work without it.

Autopilot isn't a gimmick and in no way requires this. As far as I'm concerned autopilot is an advanced cruise control that follows lane markers and doesn't run into other vehicles by reducing from the set speed. That's all I really care about. If I set the cruise at 80, I want autopilot to follow the road and do 80 unless there is someone in front of me going slower than 80. That's it. I'm perfectly capable of adjusting for the speed limit when I feel like it.

 

[MikeBur]

/OT

Agreed! Important lesson in autonomous controls . . . Case in point is Air France Flight 296, which in 1988 was doing a low-level fly-by at an airshow in France to demonstrate the new Airbus A320 and its advanced computer systems. The computer misinterpreted the pilot's intentions and maintained a safety mode that contributed to the plane crashing into the forest. From the source: "The crew applied full power and the pilot attempted to climb. However, the elevators did not respond to the pilot's commands, because the A320 computer system engaged its 'alpha protection' mode (meant to prevent the aircraft entering a stall.)" and "But in this instance, the pilots involved did not hesitate to fly the aircraft below its normal minimum flying speed because the whole purpose of the flyover was to demonstrate that the aircraft's computer systems would ensure lift would always be available regardless of how the pilots handle the controls."

I actually studied this case whilst studying real-time embedded critical systems, and caveat emptor crusty memory, my understanding was this was a design fault in common between the 3 running systems. All systems were locked into landing mode due to the undercarriage being lowered; if the pilot would have raised the gear (something you generally don't do when intiating a go around, and I can't imagine for a moment the test pilot would ever at 30') then the responses to the pilot input would have been respected. Note: I never would fly on an Airbus until > 2000 as this so freaked me out... Not code bugs, rather that they'd shared common designs which can result in common design errors, negating some of the redundancy systems.

If all else fails blame the "pilot", even after all the telemetry info says otherwise it takes years to subpoena it.

 

[BerTX]

Autopilot isn't a gimmick and in no way requires this. As far as I'm concerned autopilot is an advanced cruise control that follows lane markers and doesn't run into other vehicles by reducing from the set speed. That's all I really care about. If I set the cruise at 80, I want autopilot to follow the road and do 80 unless there is someone in front of me going slower than 80. That's it. I'm perfectly capable of adjusting for the speed limit when I feel like it.

In general, I agree. On an Interstate, certainly. On back roads where towns with speed traps like to suddenly reduce speed limits, or areas where speed limits are reduced due to unseen conditions ahead, I'd rather it reduce my speed for me. Probably yet another personal preference toggle that will never get implemented.