JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I never thought for a moment that the 300 mile car would be the one that cost $50K. I also never thought the Model 3 would first be released at $35K. I don't remember him promising either.
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Because they said S/X would get improvements.
They didn't specify any specific years or future... they said and implied that all S/X would get improved rates.
Introducing V3 Supercharging
I still think we are a ways off from 2170's in S/X. You have to remember how much Panasonic has tooled for the 18650, and how much the 2170's are needed for 3 and powerwall. This isn't a lightswitch type of thing. *Maybe* it is a thing where new sections of the gigafactory will slowly transition their area to 2170 production, but I don't believe it will just happen overnight. Panasonic would be left holding a huge bag.... of 18650's without a use.
I'll never forget Elon telling us back in 2011 that Tesla was going to come out with a car that could go 300 miles and a car that would cost 50k. The S could go 300 miles with an 85kwh pack (at 55mph....), but certainly not at the price-point of the 40kwh Model S. That guy has been feeding us half-truths at best for almost a decade. And at worst, lies. Yeah, telling people things that aren't true, that's called lying.
I remember reading somewhere that Tesla did not plan to make batteries in Shanghai, at least initially.
I'll never forget Elon telling us back in 2011 that Tesla was going to come out with a car that could go 300 miles and a car that would cost 50k. The S could go 300 miles with an 85kwh pack (at 55mph....), but certainly not at the price-point of the 40kwh Model S. That guy has been feeding us half-truths at best for almost a decade. And at worst, lies. Yeah, telling people things that aren't true, that's called lying.
I'll never forget Elon telling us back in 2011 that Tesla was going to come out with a car that could go 300 miles and a car that would cost 50k. The S could go 300 miles with an 85kwh pack (at 55mph....), but certainly not at the price-point of the 40kwh Model S. That guy has been feeding us half-truths at best for almost a decade. And at worst, lies. Yeah, telling people things that aren't true, that's called lying.
I'll never forget Elon telling us back in 2011 that Tesla was going to come out with a car that could go 300 miles and a car that would cost 50k.
Pretty sure the lie portion was that Muck clearly wasn't referring to the Model 3 at the time, and instead was referring to the Model S when making the announcement that @supratachophobia was referring to. Yes, it was a lie. Still is a lie, and will likely continue to remain a lie. There's just no getting around that.
Tesla Motors to Produce All-electric Luxury Sedan in California | Tesla, Inc.Model S is Tesla’s zero-emission, five-passenger luxury sedan powered by a lithium-ion battery pack. It is expected to have a base price of about $60,000 and get about 240 miles per charge with exceptional performance.
That said, the range shenanigans are slightly more forgivable to me than the capacity lies, the power lies, autopilot lies, etc.
Pretty sure the lie portion was that Muck clearly wasn't referring to the Model 3 at the time, and instead was referring to the Model S when making the announcement that @supratachophobia was referring to. Yes, it was a lie. Still is a lie, and will likely continue to remain a lie. There's just no getting around that. The fact they released the Model 3 some 8 years later with such a spec doesn't excuse lies about the Model S at the time.
That said, the range shenanigans are slightly more forgivable to me than the capacity lies, the power lies, autopilot lies, etc.
As for other brands... um, sorry... no one cares. This is a Tesla forum. I personally own only a couple of non-Tesla vehicles... one is a motorcycle, the other is a 25 year old pickup truck... and my 3000EV doesn't really count anymore since it's mostly Tesla-inside. I have zero reason to give half-a-s*** about what some other brand does on the EV front until they have something that even comes close to matching the Tesla supercharger network in the USA. Until then, Tesla it is, company flaws and all.
At the time, he was referring to Model S. Model 3 wasn't even a resolved twinkle in Franz' eye yet. Still lying...You can disagree all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that Musk - in this particular case - achieved exactly what he said he will.
Your belief that other people deliberately lied to you, just because events turned out different than you anticipated, is really a problem that results from your world view. There are other reasonable explanations; and if you don't believe there are, you are not being reasonable.At the time, he was referring to Model S. Model 3 wasn't even a resolved twinkle in Franz' eye yet. Still lying...
Oh, and remember how APv1 was supposed to be able to come pick you up in a private parking lot? And remember how they fixed those drive units on, like the 5th revision. And don't forget that time he had funding secured for a buy-out. Wait, ohhhhhh.......
Do I remember correctly that the new battery's form factor is not compatible with S/X without a major re-design of the bottom of the car? If I am, no new cells for S/X. That's my understanding from quarterly calls last year (and perhaps the year before).
Do I remember correctly that the new battery's form factor is not compatible with S/X without a major re-design of the bottom of the car? If I am, no new cells for S/X. That's my understanding from quarterly calls last year (and perhaps the year before).
I think Tesla is going to come at this pretty hard that they want you in a new car rather than give you a battery upgrade. So a 2170 pack on existing platform isn't going to happen from a sales perspective. At first it made sense to not offer battery upgrades because pack cost per kw was still dropping. But now that's basically settled down to that magic $100-150 per kw or so, there is no reason not to offer them since it wouldnt erode resale value now. But a car is way higher margin than a pack and Tesla needs money, so there you have it. I'm pleased with the car portion of my Tesla. I'm very unimpressed that tesla jerks the owner around with the range calculation and the degredation had been extreme so far. It seems like a 2170 pack would be a great upgrade, which is why I'm glad wk057 pioneered that cottage industry a while back.
Well, one of my ongoing projects is being able to replace a Tesla battery pack with a non-Tesla battery pack.
Right now, I've been driving a Model S almost daily that has no Tesla battery pack (empty pack casing with a dummy coolant loop), that believes it has a Tesla battery pack, but instead is running off of one Chevy Volt battery secured in the trunk. I've completely reverse engineered the Tesla BMS, protocols, etc, and have the car convinced that it has a 15 kWh battery pack with ~50 miles of range... and it works pretty well so far. Onboard chargers work, and technically could make supercharging work if the pack were large enough. This is mostly a proof of concept.
In the end, I'll be able to make fully aftermarket Tesla battery packs with various targets (range or power or both), and they'll be just bolt-in replacements that any shop can do (no need to fiddle with firmware, the pack handles all of that).
Was trying to find a pic of a full charge, but don't have anything handy... and at the time this was taken, the BMS wasn't reporting energy usage to the counters that tally it for the UI yet, so 0 kWh used since last charge, lol.
I think Tesla could easily make a 2160 pack for the S/X in the same form factor, but they're not going to do it. I'll probably have to do it at some point... but first I need to make my 2100A discharge capable Model S battery.