Phoenix Heat

[GSP]

I don't think you need to go through all of these gyrations, and suggesting the above will leave someone with the wrong impression of the car.

Your advice might be applicable for a Nissan Leaf, which doesn't actively cool its battery and leaves it at the mercy of the elements. Not so with Model S. Model S has the most advanced battery management system in the world. The batteries and chargers inside the car are liquid cooled. The Model S automatically maintains the battery temperature within Tesla's chosen parameters. If the car sense the battery pack getting into a bad temperature range, it will immediately heat or cool the pack even when parked and unplugged.

Use it like you stole it. Charge to as much as you need and don't worry about the rest. If you ever charge to 100%, try to time your charge so you drive off shortly after the charge completes. Charging to 100% isn't inherently bad, it's letting it sit at 100% for long periods of time (weeks) that could result in slightly more degradation over YEARS and many tens of thousands of miles. Battery degradation also appears to be more strongly related to time than miles driven. So if you baby your car and don't drive it much, your pack is still degrading in much the same way as someone else who drives much more. Tesla's warranty against failure is unlimited miles.

DRIVE THE CAR AND DON'T WORRY!

Good advice, I agree.

I am just posting what I would do, to help the OP to be just as obsessive-compulsive in caring for his car.

As for the Leaf, without any battery cooling, I would never consider ownership in hot climates such as Phoenix or San Antonio, but it should be fine everywhere else.

GSP

 

[electracity]

Higher average temperature unquestionably reduces battery life. The question is how much. I suggest you never charge to 100% in the summer. I suggest set your recharge to happen at home later in the night, if this acceptable. The less time the battery spends at higher charge, the better.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

It's a car, not a baby. It's OK to leave it out in the sun.

If you're really concerned then the only step you should bother with is not leaving it sit out in the sun at 100% charge. That's it.

 

[Sogorman]

Thanks everyone! Not going to stress about it and worry more about making it through the summer! Just played golf today... Warm one!

 

[Zarwin]

Good advice, I agree.

I am just posting what I would do, to help the OP to be just as obsessive-compulsive in caring for his car.

As for the Leaf, without any battery cooling, I would never consider ownership in hot climates such as Phoenix or San Antonio, but it should be fine everywhere else.

GSP

Even in climates that aren't super hot like Phoenix, the Leaf can suffer from the heat. In my area, it gets over 100 degrees every summer, but only a handful of days break that barrier usually. I had mine for 2 1/2 years and 35k miles before getting my Model S, and I was incredibly careful with it. Never charged in the sun on a hot day, tried to always park in the shade, never let it sit at 100% or near 0%. That spoiled little car even had an air conditioned garage. When I sold it, the battery had degraded to 85% original capacity, losing 15%. Now that's not all from heat of course, but I'm betting it would have fared better in a cooler climate. Hopefully it will be a really long time before I see that much degradation on my Model S.

 

[jerry33]

1. Data from the Roadster shows no degradation based on geographic area. Highs and lows are all over the place. I see no reason to assume that Tesla wouldn't take just as good care of the Model S battery.

2. The Leaf battery has no temperature management other than airflow. The Model S is liquid cooled--big difference.

3. Leave the Model S plugged in when possible.

4. Just drive it.

 

[capt601]

Question for the group... . In addition if I need to run out from the office I will remote start the car before I head. I have tried my hardest to let the car cool itself anytime I drive it when it's over 90 out.


t.

Why are you remote starting the car to cool it down? No reason to do that. Just turn the Climate system on. Remote start allows someone to drive away.

 

[sorka]

Oops. Wrong thread. Strange.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Higher average temperature unquestionably reduces battery life. The question is how much. I suggest you never charge to 100% in the summer. I suggest set your recharge to happen at home later in the night, if this acceptable. The less time the battery spends at higher charge, the better.

I disagree. The car manages the temperature of the pack automatically in all temperature extremes. This is not a concern at all.

 

[araxara]

Why are you remote starting the car to cool it down? No reason to do that. Just turn the Climate system on. Remote start allows someone to drive away.

Right. And remote start does not actually start the car until the brake pedal is pressed.

 

[Sogorman]

I should have clarified that I was just turning on the climate/HVAC and not actually 'remote starting' the MS.

 

[AndY1]

Model S has the most advanced battery management system in the world. The batteries and chargers inside the car are liquid cooled. The Model S automatically maintains the battery temperature within Tesla's chosen parameters. If the car sense the battery pack getting into a bad temperature range, it will immediately heat or cool the pack even when parked and unplugged.

Use it like you stole it. Charge to as much as you need and don't worry about the rest. If you ever charge to 100%, try to time your charge so you drive off shortly after the charge completes. Charging to 100% isn't inherently bad, it's letting it sit at 100% for long periods of time (weeks) that could result in slightly more degradation over YEARS and many tens of thousands of miles. Battery degradation also appears to be more strongly related to time than miles driven. So if you baby your car and don't drive it much, your pack is still degrading in much the same way as someone else who drives much more. Tesla's warranty against failure is unlimited miles.

DRIVE THE CAR AND DON'T WORRY!

How is Tesla's implementation of BMS more advanced than the Volt's or i3's? Volt does it the same way you describe it and also Volt's battery warranty includes capacity degradation whereas Tesla warranty covers only battery failure.
And so far, Volt and Ampera owners aren't noticing any battery capacity degradation. My Ampera's AER, after 3 years and 80.000km driven is the same as it was new. I can't say that for Model S considering the battery degradation data I read on this forum.

Please, explain, in what way is Model S's BMS so more superior over other liquid cooled solutions out on the road?

 

[scottf200]

How is Tesla's implementation of BMS more advanced than the Volt's or i3's? Volt does it the same way you describe it and also Volt's battery warranty includes capacity degradation whereas Tesla warranty covers only battery failure.
And so far, Volt and Ampera owners aren't noticing any battery capacity degradation. My Ampera's AER, after 3 years and 80.000km driven is the same as it was new. I can't say that for Model S considering the battery degradation data I read on this forum.

Please, explain, in what way is Model S's BMS so more superior over other liquid cooled solutions out on the road?

For comparison. Check out the article.

Title: Volt Battery Thermal Management System in the Hot Arizona Sun
Volt Battery Thermal Management System in the Hot Arizona Sun - GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site

Various graphs and testing.
http://gm-volt.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Slide5.jpg

http://gm-volt.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Slide6.jpg

 

[AndY1]

In both cases the HV battery temperature didn't go over 90 degrees F.

Two years ago we've had 40+ degrees C for three weeks, my Ampera was parked in the sun while I was at work, turned off and not plugged in, but my HV battery was always kept below 30 degreed Celsius. When I took a seat in the car in the afternoon, the battery temperature was always between 24-26 degrees C.
Yes, Ampera/Volt actively cools the battery even when unplugged and turned off.

The first graph from your post never exceeds 90 degrees F during the testing hours, so you can't assume, that the AC wouldn't cool the battery down. Only the second graph, where the car was turned on, was where the battery temperature exceeded 90 degrees F. What's missing is the graph, where the car is turned off and the temperature conditions are the same as on the 2nd graph.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

How is Tesla's implementation of BMS more advanced than the Volt's or i3's? Volt does it the same way you describe it and also Volt's battery warranty includes capacity degradation whereas Tesla warranty covers only battery failure.
And so far, Volt and Ampera owners aren't noticing any battery capacity degradation. My Ampera's AER, after 3 years and 80.000km driven is the same as it was new. I can't say that for Model S considering the battery degradation data I read on this forum.

Please, explain, in what way is Model S's BMS so more superior over other liquid cooled solutions out on the road?

You should ask Tesla, since they are the ones who make the specific claim you are disputing. I'm simply echoing what Tesla says. This is a Model S forum, not a Volt forum. I have no interest in the Volt.

 

[AndY1]

I'm not asking Tesla, since it was you, claiming, that Model S has the most advanced BMS. I'm just saying, that they have as good as their competition, while competition does it without any vampire drain or the need to replace the 12V battery every year.

 

[Electroman]

I'm not asking Tesla, since it was you, claiming, that Model S has the most advanced BMS. I'm just saying, that they have as good as their competition, while competition does it without any vampire drain or the need to replace the 12V battery every year.

++1

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I'm not asking Tesla, since it was you, claiming, that Model S has the most advanced BMS. I'm just saying, that they have as good as their competition, while competition does it without any vampire drain or the need to replace the 12V battery every year.

I'm not an engineer, just a Realtor

I agree that the 12v battery is a weak link in the car, but that has nothing to do with how the BMS manages the main pack. Vampire drain also has nothing to do with BMS, as that is a design decision made by Tesla and the drain is caused by systems that are upstream of the battery. BMS relates purely to how the car manages the main pack. Whatever is upstream of the pack - 12v, vampire drain, drive train, user facing systems, etc. - does not directly involve the BMS.

 

[AndY1]

I give a +1 point to Tesla superior BMS design and that's a way to dissapate all that excess heat in the summer when SuperCharging. If the car is being charged at 120kW and there's 10% of charging losses, about 12kW of heat has to go somewhere and that's a lot, given the available space.
What is the maximum power the Model S's AC draws? It's about 5kW in Ampera, when preconditioning the car and cooling down the battery from 30'C to 24'C at the same time in 40'C summer heat.