Phantom Braking getting worse - any ideas on how to stop it?

[Ev_Rider]

Just took a trip from Texas to Arizona on I-10 in my 2020 LR M3. From West TX to middle of AZ had about 15 instances of phantom braking. HARD braking - from 80 mph to 25 mph in seconds. Thankfully no traffic behind me or they could have easily hit me from the drastic slowdown. Had previously had minor soft touches over the years but never this hard and this often. I now feel like I can't use cruise control or auto pilot because of the danger risk.

Questions:
1. Anyone else experience this drastic braking?
2. Anyone know if Tesla is doing anything about it?
3. Is this something that should be addressed at a service center?
4. Any ideas on how to stop it?

 

[ColoradoMike]

Just took a trip from Texas to Arizona on I-10 in my 2020 LR M3. From West TX to middle of AZ had about 15 instances of phantom braking. HARD braking - from 80 mph to 25 mph in seconds. Thankfully no traffic behind me or they could have easily hit me from the drastic slowdown. Had previously had minor soft touches over the years but never this hard and this often. I now feel like I can't use cruise control or auto pilot because of the danger risk.

Questions:
1. Anyone else experience this drastic braking?
2. Anyone know if Tesla is doing anything about it?
3. Is this something that should be addressed at a service center?
4. Any ideas on how to stop it?

100% with issues on "phantom braking" in Texas! We did a 3000 mile round trip from CO to FLA traveling through Texas two weeks ago. We experienced the same thing on our trip.

What I believe is that when the temps get a bit hotter and there are "mirages" that I can see on the road ahead may cause the issues. Not certain if this is the case but we elected to NOT use Autopilot for most of the trip.

What I can say is that at night time traveling the same exact roads, we had no issues with "phantom braking".

I typically use autopilot here on I-25 here in Colorado and have not encountered a single instance of the braking issues. What was super scary is that when it happens it is SUDDEN and ABRUPT! The Cruise control works for us but in autopilot mode in Northern NM and Texas it was so bad we turned autopilot off.

Our car is a 2022 M3LR purchased in August of last year if that helps.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Which software build?

 

[nate704]

never experienced phantom braking with my 22 MYP during local/highway/long/short road trips.

 

[XPsionic]

What I believe is that when the temps get a bit hotter and there are "mirages" that I can see on the road ahead may cause the issues. Not certain if this is the case but we elected to NOT use Autopilot for most of the trip.

Mirage is probably the culprit, exact same experience, AP works great everywhere except for wide open empty roads. Mirage or crests makes AP freak out.

There's no fix for this other than Tesla updating the software,. There's unified code now for FSD owners for city and highway driving, and eventually that'll most probably be released to everyone with just AP as well. Can't see Tesla leaving anyone behind as long as the car's hardware is compatible with the new builds.

 

[Ev_Rider]

100% with issues on "phantom braking" in Texas! We did a 3000 mile round trip from CO to FLA traveling through Texas two weeks ago. We experienced the same thing on our trip.

What I believe is that when the temps get a bit hotter and there are "mirages" that I can see on the road ahead may cause the issues. Not certain if this is the case but we elected to NOT use Autopilot for most of the trip.

What I can say is that at night time traveling the same exact roads, we had no issues with "phantom braking".

I typically use autopilot here on I-25 here in Colorado and have not encountered a single instance of the braking issues. What was super scary is that when it happens it is SUDDEN and ABRUPT! The Cruise control works for us but in autopilot mode in Northern NM and Texas it was so bad we turned autopilot off.

Our car is a 2022 M3LR purchased in August of last year if that helps.

I considered mirages too, but it happened early in the morning a few times. and in both cruise and auto pilot. it really sucks to not be able to use those features.

 

[Ev_Rider]

Which software build?

Pretty much the latest 2023.12.9

 

[Ev_Rider]

never experienced phantom braking with my 22 MYP during local/highway/long/short road trips.

This in reference to M3 so not much help for our issues, but glad to hear your Y has no issue.

 

[Ev_Rider]

Mirage is probably the culprit, exact same experience, AP works great everywhere except for wide open empty roads. Mirage or crests makes AP freak out.

There's no fix for this other than Tesla updating the software,. There's unified code now for FSD owners for city and highway driving, and eventually that'll most probably be released to everyone with just AP as well. Can't see Tesla leaving anyone behind as long as the car's hardware is compatible with the new builds.

It occurred with and without mirages and not on crests.

 

[Stanim]

I hate phantom braking so much!! Mine is 2021 model, and after experiencing several times, I am very reluctant to use it anymore. Or I guess if you do want to use the auto steer, you would have to press down the accelerator.

 

[DuncanM]

Just took a trip from Texas to Arizona on I-10 in my 2020 LR M3. From West TX to middle of AZ had about 15 instances of phantom braking. HARD braking - from 80 mph to 25 mph in seconds. Thankfully no traffic behind me or they could have easily hit me from the drastic slowdown. Had previously had minor soft touches over the years but never this hard and this often. I now feel like I can't use cruise control or auto pilot because of the danger risk.

Questions:
1. Anyone else experience this drastic braking?
2. Anyone know if Tesla is doing anything about it?
3. Is this something that should be addressed at a service center?
4. Any ideas on how to stop it?

1) I've had it happen many times. Seems to happen mostly during the day with mirage effect on the hwy and the sun forward of the car. I am very nervous about having cars close behind me on the freeway.
2) Dunno
3) Dunno, but keep your cameras clean - I suspect that dirty cameras are a factor.
4)
It seems to happen less often when using standard cruise rather than AP.
It doesn't seem to happen when there's another car ahead that shows on the display, so set the following distance to 7 and stay behind someone.

 

[Frank Langella]

Happens all the time in Nevada, due to the mirages. It'd happen literally hundreds of times between Reno and Vegas if you tried to use AP all the way there.

I've filed two service requests for it. One they reviewed the telemetry remotely and said everything was fine, sorry, it just doesn't work all the time.

Second time they had me bring the car in for service and they say they checked all the cameras orientations and whatnot and said everything was in spec and that I just shouldn't use AP in the conditions that cause it (i.e. I shouldn't use cruise control on road trips).

I don't think they're capable of fixing the problem without better/more hardware.

File an NHTSA complaint, at least its something.

 

[Fean07]

Same here and agree about the ‘mirage’/ hot road effect.

I have a ticket opened and shared logs. Somebody is coming this morning. Normally after log review that would have told me no need to come if was only sw.
Courious to see what technician is coming for ?! Will let you know

 

[iloveplywood]

Aye, that would drive me crazy. I really don't have much need for auto-pilot, but I honestly would steer people away from Tesla if driving assist was important to them. I just think it's a fundamental problem with their system at this point that won't be resolved without a major change. It's been going on for too long. It's too bad, because it's great when it works. I've finally seen some people on social media start to hammer Tesla about this -- it kind of pisses me off though, because these same people basically gushed about Tesla's auto-pilot for a long time. Maybe if the influencers started harping on this it could be resolved?

 

[OxBrew]

I think it varies by some of the soft settings. I had horrible PB from 10/21 to 8/22. Then AP and TACC were perfect in all conditions (mirages, hills, heavy rain, direct sun in the forward camera) until about April this year. After a service to replace the rear window, it came back. PB so bad, AP and TACC were unusable.

After a while, and a software update, now it's literally perfect again. Worked perfectly in a weird rain storm with the sun in front, turning the entire freeway into a shimmering mirror. There seems to be no correlation to software versions, so I assume it has to be some soft settings/history that gets logged somewhere, as I've read those variables exist. Would be great to be able to read them, and start to collect parameters that work/don't work.

 

[rlsd]

I have the impression that phantom breaking happens when a car moves up to the left side or right side of my car. I had 1 PB yesterday and 1 PB today.
There were no mirage. It seems FSD wants to break to yield for merging in.

 

[OxBrew]

I have the impression that phantom breaking happens when a car move up to the left side or right side of my car. I had 1 PB yesterday and 1 PB today.
There were no mirage. It seems FSD wants to break to yield for merging in.

That's a new one for me. Even at the worst, never had PB in that situation. Had plenty on wide open roads on clear days, no other cars around.

 

[DarkForest]

In the last couple of months, all of the hardcore phantom braking I’ve experienced happened when there was an irregularly shaped 18-wheeler far in the distance.

My guess is that FSD thought the 18-wheeler was much closer since it doesn’t have a good grasp on the shape.

deets: Texas, 2022 M3LR, 11.3.6

 

[KArnold]

There are likely multiple causes. On 11.3.6 on my legacy MS, I drove over 2k miles from Ohio to Nebraska and back last week. Clear weather, temps in the 80's, no noticeable mirages.

Only 2 PB events in the middle of Illinois on I-74, about 3 miles apart. Both were similar - no other traffic in front or behind for 1k feet. Interestingly, on both I was in the slow lane and both also included an automated lane change to the passing lane - had not heard others (nor had i experienced) mention PB with a simultaneous lane change. Slowed from about 75 MPH to 60 MPH before I hit the electron pedal.

Logically you would think it perceived something in my lane. Nothing was apparent, no overpasses, lane markings were clear. Maybe it doesn't like newly planted corn fields as that's all I saw. Drove all day with similar conditions.

There does seem to be many of these in very hot areas like TX and AZ, so mirages may play a part. Otherwise I'll get maybe one a month here in Ohio. Honestly it's very rare for me and many others. It's a very curious phenomena.

Of course, freaked out the wife.

 

[hahler2]

I hate phantom braking so much. To the point where I'm almost ready to sell my Model Y. It's so frustrating! What I have noticed is that it seems to do it the most when there's a car between a quarter and a half mile ahead of me. My theory is that is right on the edge of the what the cameras can clearly see, and it can't tell if the car is coming at me or travelling same direction so it freaks out and hits the brakes.