Overwhelmed! Considering a Used Model S

[jolabi]

Hey Tesla Owners, potential new recruit here

Want to purchase a used Model S (Sub $40K), but overwhelmed by all the permutations and unsure of what resources I can reference to bring some clarity.

Would really appreciate some direction, below are a couple of baseline issues that come to mind but any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

1) I read that the Model S's have an 8 year unlimited warranty (read somewhere that some batteries are excluded but unclear), but then the Tesla CPO's seem to have their own warranty provisions which at time are capped below.

2) Auto Pilot also is throwing me off. Is AP1 no longer supported or up gradable, how does it compare to AP2? Should it be a deal breaker (im primarily Houston highway driving). How can i even tell whether a car has AP hardware or not when buying off of Auto Trader for example (look like not all 2014's have it).

3) The badges are quite numerous, is their a sweet spot in terms of battery capacity and performance vs money? What does the D and P values actually mean in terms of experience. Are some battery years not as good as others?

4) Mileage, should I interpret mileage on an EV in the same way I do a traditional car?

5) The myriad of packages seems plentiful and change often (center consul, flooring, seat packages). Is their a repository of whats important to lookout for. Really hard to assess things when viewing cars on Auto Trader / Craigs


Honestly, in terms of highest priority, id like a car/model with most of the kinks worked out, but not so recent that a pay an arm and leg for it. Ideal parameter is a car that will hold is resale value better so I could potentially get a Y a bit later on, and sub $40K.

Really appreciate any thought, I know its a long message with lots of questions, many thanks in advance.

 

[Shadnic]

I purchased a sub 40k used Tesla model S and can tell you that older cars are still great. There's no right or wrong things to look out for, it's more what you need/want. I'll go through your questions with some thoughts:

1) Tesla CPO do have an additional limited warranty. Some older cars have extended service agreements as well which extend the warranty another 4 years (mine had this which was really great).

2) Are you buying a Tesla for AutoPilot? Or is the thought of autopilot just a neat addition? You won't find one with AP2 or 2.5 likely for under 40k, but you can find ones with AP1. It still is functional but you won't get continued updates into the full-self-driving future of the more advanced hardware.

I wanted a Tesla because I love the feeling of driving a Tesla and I don't have a commute or anything so I didn't feel as much need for autopilot so I got one without it (which made it much cheaper to buy). If you do want autopilot then you probably have to come to terms with the fact that you're paying for an earlier version of autopilot that won't get updated forever.

I'm not 100% sure how to see the AP hardware if the listing doesn't mention it. You can see the sensors on the bumper but that could also just be parking sensors. Someone else may know more.

3). How much do you drive every day? As someone who doesn't drive much I decided to save money and get a S60. I think most people prefer higher of course. I think it would be great to have an 85 kwh battery personally but I don't regret my 60.

I don't know if some battery years are better/worse than others because I know they are slightly different, but I haven't heard of any experiencing significantly more degradation than others.

P = performance motor. Faster 0-60 time. All teslas are fast and fun, having a P model is nice . Newer P models have even more/fancier launch options.
D= Dual motor. All wheel drive. Also generally more powerful, and great if you drive somewhere with more whether conditions. A non D model is rear wheel drive, which is still very fun (I actually like the feeling of a RWD engine pushing you forward).

4) High mileage could mean battery degradation but doesn't guarantee it. I would definitely say lower mileage is better because less wear and tear on the car, but people have pushed these things like crazy and they can hold up pretty well. Every car is different though. I'd be nervous to get a very high mileage car with no warranty.

5) I'd just go with the colors/materials you like. Maybe go try to see some locally so you could see how they look in person and see if you have a preference? There seats were upgraded in various years but nothing is wrong with earlier seats. The center console is also nice but at the same time I have driven cars with and without it and I can't say I think it's that helpful. I'd look at the roof for sure though. Do you want a metal roof? Sunroof? Glass roof? Good thing to be aware of depending on your preference.

I am sure other people have better answers but happy to answer any additional questions.

 

[2012MS85]

Depending on your age and driving record, the P may not only cost more for the Performance Model vs non-P, but also quite a bit more to insure. Call your insurer and check your cost of a regular Model S (with 85 kWh battery) vs P85. For some with a risky profile, the additional insurance premium cost is huge. Mine was higher for my 2012 P85 than my original 2012 “regular“ 85. Narrow your search to one you can see in person and personally inspect, if possible (assuming you’re in an area with plenty of used Teslas for sale).

 

[steve841]

Man ... just look at the new car inventory ... smoking deals.

 

[2012MS85]

Man ... just look at the new car inventory ... smoking deals.

If OP wants a Model S, I don’t think he’ll find any smoking deal on a new one at his budget of $40k If he’s open to a base 3 with AP & delivery/doc fee ($40k’ish), that’s a different story. But they are very different cars.

 

[Dpc131]

Couple things

8 year unlimited mile warranty is for the battery and drive train. It doesn’t cover normal degradation; but more battery module failure. Cars have 4 year 50k standard. I’ve had some luck with them replacing common problems even though I’m slightly out of warranty although YMMV.

Buying from Tesla gives you at a minimum an additional 2 year 100k mile odometer warranty for anything over 50k miles or 4 years or a 4 year 50k miles for less that’s 50k miles or <4 years. These warranties can be had from 1 third party for ~$4-5k for 4 year or ~$3k for 2 year. Good data for comparison Tesla or third party. I bought third party and got such a good deal that I’m going to take my chances on out of warranty repairs.

Older cars, 85kwh seems to be most common. I have a P85D and it is both ridiculously fast and then a cruiser quietly speeding along a highway in autopilot.

You can tell if autopilot equipped by the screen under “driving” It will say ‘autosteer’ And ‘summon’ or also look for a camera right under the rear view mirror or lastly a small rectangular box at the bottom front center below the bumper (the radar.) if third party, not everyone has autopilot enabled. Only way to tell that is on the screen.

As far as options, people seem to prefer next gen seats although I’ve never sat in the old ones. Other than that for older years the main option categories that matter imo are

Ultra high fidelity audio - more speakers, amp and sub plus Sirius
Pano sunroof
Cold weather - all heated seats, steering wheel and whisper blades
Air suspension - raise and lower the ride
Interior upgrade - more leather and ambient lighting (I think)
Premium upgrade - this package always seems to change based on build date

To put it in perspective, I bought in January a ‘15 P85D with 49k miles for $42k third party.

 

[Dpc131]

I forgot, I’m perfectly happy with AP1. It is still ‘supported’ but they will probably not add any of the new features. When I drove a new model s, the only difference was that you could have autopilot automatically change lanes on the highway. AP1 will change lanes for you if you simply turn on the turn signal. There’s even some argument that AP1 is more capable (AP1 was outsourced to another company AP2 is developed and built by Tesla)

But there’s tons of debate how Full Self Driving is going to be rolled out. Right now, it’s not adding much benefit (recently can detect red Lights) but that may change if they make some breakthroughs.

For me, I got the car for autopilot and it hasn’t disappointed and I engage almost every drive. But now I have the car, I unexpectedly love it for the acceleration and performance.

 

[iRia]

I agree on the autopilot stuff. If you want autopilot to take the stress out of bumper to bumper then you're fine with AP1. If you want full self driving-ish capabilities then you want minimum AP2.0 if not 2.5 (or 3). There's also enhanced summon which is coming. Other than that many will be happy with AP1.

 

[wdolson]

AP1 is good for stop and go freeway traffic and the open highway. It will never be much more than that. AP1 was introduced late 2014 when the dual motor cars were introduced. It was replaced with AP2 in late 2016. I have AP1 but rarely use it. The car is too much fun to drive to let a computer do it unless I'm stuck in traffic or something.

The P in the designation is a Performance car, the D is dual motor. The original RWD cars had a larger frunk, but the AWD cars are more efficient and have better range.

There is a glut of performance cars on the used market (P85s, P85Ds, and P90Ds) because a lot of performance buyers upgraded to the latest and greatest as it came along. They get poorer energy efficiency than the non-performance cars (less than 10%) and unless you're into racing, the extra performance is something you will probably never use after playing with it once or twice. Any non-performance car has the power and acceleration of a decent sports car. As someone said above, sometimes insurance on performance cars is higher. The upside is the used performance cars tend to be a bit cheaper.

I have heard there are some unscrupulous dealers importing Teslas with problems from other states into Texas, so it would probably be a good idea to run a CarFax on any car you're seriously considering.

Whether you get a big battery car (85, 90, 100) or a small battery (60, 70, or 75) depends on what you need the car for. The longer range is a benefit on road trips. Superchargers are close enough together in many places now there isn't huge range anxiety taking a small battery car on a road trip, but you will have to stop more with a small battery car. The big battery car will allow you to skip some superchargers.

This is a good reference for the different versions:
Tesla Model S - Wikipedia

The range of the 75D was just shy of the original 85, but the 75D may be newer than what you're looking for. If you're just looking for a daily commuter, having AP1 would be good for sanity in stop and go traffic, but you can probably do OK with a small battery car.

 

[BlueOvalFan]

”...unless you're into racing, the extra performance is something you will probably never use after playing with it once or twice.

Any non-performance car has the power and acceleration of a decent sports car. As someone said above, sometimes insurance on performance cars is higher...”

I have to disagree on the first part. I drove a 500hp ICE sedan as my DD and giggled everywhere I went in that rocket...I fully expect to burst into laughter in my new to me P85D every time I hit the GO peddle! Can’t wait!

As for the insurance there was only a $20 diffrence between the P85D and 85D for me.

 

[jcy1012]

Just purchased used through Tesla, some thoughts:
I bought the newest, lowest mileage car I could afford. Another non-negotiable was the 4/50 warranty. I ended up with a 2016 70D with 40k miles for about $40k. That I got dual motor, premium pkg, and sunroof, was a plus. AP1 v AP2 wasn't much of a concern for me, because I really love to drive and am not too concerned about being driven.
I missed out on a few cars because Tesla's used car dept is severely lacking when it comes to communication and information.
The pick-up process was not much better.

 

[henderrj]

Excellent points above, but one clarification. It is not the drivetrain but just the drive unit that is covered under the 8 year warranty, along with the battery.

As to AP1, I got it when I got my car thinking it would be kind of fun. Now I can't believe I ever drove a car without it! Stop and go traffic and boring highway driving are perfect uses for it. I can't imagine owning a car without it now.

I've had a few loaners from Tesla Service and I can tell you that some of the earlier seats are like torture chambers. I understand some people don't mind them, but I don't understand how! Do sit in it before you buy it.

By the way, when I bought mine you could call Tesla, give them the VIN, and then ask them questions. They can't tell you what the car has or any such thing, but you can ask does it have a AP1 and is that enabled? Well, you could back then. But that was nearly two years ago. They may be too busy to answer questions now.

 

[wdolson]

Somebody did put together a Model S VIN decoder.

 

[Brass Guy]

The original 60kwh battery cars are the only ones that do not have the 8 year battery and drive unit warranty, not limited by mileage. According to the wiki page linked above, this configuration was available until April of 2015. A 60 built after that has the 8 year warranty, and actually has a larger battery that is charge limited by software.
For warranty purposes, the drive unit consists of the motor, power inverter and final drive/differential. Axle shafts and wheel hubs are not covered in the 8 year warranty.

My car has the original textile seats. I love them. I didn't like the original leather seats, I slid around if I tried to handle the car.
I recently drove a loaner with next-gen leather seats, and I felt too restricted by them. I also noticed the seat heaters took much longer, and didn't heat up the back nearly as far.
I guess most people like the security of being hugged by the seat. You really need to sit in them yourself.

Option packages have changed dramatically over the years. In early cars like mine, an optional package ("Tech package") added navigation, the power lift gate, driver profiles, auto dimming mirrors, lighted exterior door handles, auto folding mirrors, I may be forgetting some. During some periods all these were standard, other times different parts of that package were standard, during other times fog lights were included in the package. If any of these accessories are important to you, you probably need to look for them individually; depending on the build date.

 

[nativespinner]

Good reading here on Model S. Changes by month and year

Model S - Options by Year - Tesla Motors Club Wiki

General guide to Model S

Tesla Model S Buyers', Delivery and Owners' Guide

 

[drummerboy7816]

As far as sweet spot, most bang for buck performance/value on used may be the P85D with 0-60 times at 3.2 seconds which is in super car territory but that's a bit more than your budget. I ultimately got a used 85D with 35k miles that's more around your price range as I felt that 4.2 sec 0-60 is plenty fast for me and I'd take the 17 miles of extra range and $ savings.

 

[nativespinner]

Your car is protected by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. The Battery and Drive Unit in your car are covered for a period of:

• Model S and Model X – 8 years (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015, which is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first).

 

[Krash]

Late 2016 AP2 S75D is another sweet spot. Transferable unlimited free supercharging.

 

[Alset4S]

Late 2016 AP2 S75D is another sweet spot. Transferable unlimited free supercharging.

It's a sweet spot for sure and I an't selling mine

 

[hoops129]

How about a mid year 2017 (june I think)? Is supercharging still transferable? I'm looking at a 75 (not dual motor) with enhanced autopilot. Not sure if its HW2 or HW2.5 though.