NYT article: Stalled on the EV Highway

[Johan]

True, but they can simply add the already-ubiquitous "this call may recorded for quality and training purposes" to the beginning of each call and be done with it. Having that audio is probably valuable for Tesla, and does not have to put them in a bad position, they can record it openly and with prior notice.

But then you better only use it for "quality and training purposes" which I suppose means internal use, not to be made public?

 

[ElSupreme]

NY Times will probably do nothing. Doing so will only add credibility to Elon's blog which is actually quite poorly written compared to anything Broder writes (truth aside). Broder already responded by basically saying he did what he was told by Tesla employees (he didn't). While it's nice to know the truth, many people in the public will see a blog entry written by a whining non-journalist and compare it to a well written rebuttal from a seasoned journalist and make their judgements based on that. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't know. As poorly as the Tesla article is written it has FACTS (Sure it seems that people don't care about that anymore)! And they should be more powerful than elegant writing.

Than being said I hope that the NYT admits that the piece was slanted and/or biased (at least), and commits to doing a proper test.

The one thing that still is unfortunate is the large range loss overnight. Although with all the 'plug the car in at all times' I would think finding a 120 plug isn't that hard to do. It is obvious from the charging amounts, and driving logs that the car was driven to fail.

I don't think the NYT has much to lose, saying that the story wasn't completely true, and there may have been an agenda to show a failure. They could just 'reprimand' Broder and not have any hard feelings. I am sure they were already unhappy with him once they had to defend him AND Elon mentioned PROOF!

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But then you better only use it for "quality and training purposes" which I suppose means internal use, not to be made public?

Tesla could 'train' the general public about abuses by reporters! :biggrin:

 

[DavidM]

Ha. The beauty of Tesla having the proof, is that it calls ALL negative testing articles into question. Eventually, the public may just choose to dismiss any negative article about the car, even if it's legitimate. Right now, when I read a review about Model S, my first questions are:
1. Is the author a Model S owner or investor?
2. Is the author shorting the stock? Or is he/she backed by competing interests?
3. Is this a sour grapes story of someone who lost money betting on or against the company?

 

[ModelS8794]

driven to fail

That should have been the title of the article!

 

[Norbert]

The one thing that still is unfortunate is the large range loss overnight. Although with all the 'plug the car in at all times' I would think finding a 120 plug isn't that hard to do. It is obvious from the charging amounts, and driving logs that the car was driven to fail.

As I wrote in the main article thread: The state-of-charge chart shows that not that much charge was actually lost overnight. (It appears to be more the calculation of the displayed range which changes.) And even that loss (to me it seems about 20 miles rated range, see other thread) could be for some part the battery conditioning in the morning.

 

[sp4rk]

I hope not. Recording a phone call without the consent of the other party is a crime in many states.

I think the meaning here is one of those "reminder, this call is being recorded prologues" would have occurred?

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But then you better only use it for "quality and training purposes" which I suppose means internal use, not to be made public?

Whom are they training? The public about EV's.

I've always wondered why those statements don't stop at "being recorded. "

 

[artsci]

The logs prove without any doubt that Broder is a liar. The logs are the facts about Broder's drive and they completely contradict his story. So much for the high journalistic standards of the NY Times.

 

[Todd Burch]

As I wrote in the main article thread: The state-of-charge chart shows that not that much charge was actually lost overnight. (It appears to be more the calculation of the displayed range which changes.) And even that loss (to me it seems about 20 miles rated range, see other thread) could be for some part the battery conditioning in the morning.

+1. He said he turned on the heat while the car was still parked in an attempt to get range back (wow, that makes no sense. Indicated range? Yes. Actual range? Uh, no.). The horizontal axis of that chart is in miles, so it makes sense that while he was heating the cabin and the car was not traveling any distance, there'd be a large vertical drop on the graph.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

The logs prove without any doubt that Broder is a liar. The logs are the facts about Broder's drive and they completely contradict his story. So much for the high journalistic standards of the NY Times.

'high' journalism. haha

 

[Norbert]

+1. He said he turned on the heat while the car was still parked in an attempt to get range back (wow, that makes no sense. Indicated range? Yes. Actual range? Uh, no.). The horizontal axis of that chart is in miles, so it makes sense that while he was heating the cabin and the car was not traveling any distance, there'd be a large vertical drop on the graph.

Look at both the state-of charge chart, and the rated-range chart. The first is surely more the actual charge (not visible in the UI), while the second is the display value for rated range.

 

[dsm363]

I hope not. Recording a phone call without the consent of the other party is a crime in many states.

They should tell them of course they are recording the call if they do it but probably not necessary. Simply have them sign contract when they test drive the car saying they will fully charge the car each time they charge.

 

[Norbert]

Greencarreports ends in "Now can't we all just get along?"

Um, I was thinking that at least the article should get retracted.


Tesla's Elon Musk NY Times: Disturbing Discrepancies On Model S Range Reporting

And coverage like Broder's trip report actually helps that process, even if some advocates perceive it in the short run as overly critical or biased.

 

[Raven5000]

All I can say is way to go Elon! Fu*k yeah!!!!! Die oil die! I love my model s I want to race any gas guzzler!

 

[Fred R.]

Excellent points, Robert. Is there any way that the Northeast Tesla enthusiasts could apply pressure on TM to push them toward both a software upgrade that deals realistically with the range loss associated with cold weather driving, as well as to add additional superchargers between Boston and D.C.? I would suggest that another is needed just south of Boston, for folks headed north from NYC (it's almost 170 miles from Milford to Boston - even Elon Musk admits the distance between SC should be 140 miles or less).

 

[bluetinc]

Hey Fred,

I don't think there is any need for "pressure" to have TM install more chargers. Tesla never planned to leave the system as it is now, this is simply the initial roll out. The initial plan has been something along the lines of, place the chargers at the greatest distance they can but still allow travel, and then fill them in afterwards. And in very few states (especially on the East Coast) there are no 400V - 90KW devices that allow a consumer to touch them, let alone plug them in to something, outside, in any weather condition, permitting issues have been much larger than TM expected. Add to this that you basically have to deal with a new state, and a new permitting office, for each station, with new rules, new concepts of what must be provided to show it's safe... I expect that as more are installed this will become easier, and the roll out speed will increase.

The changes to the software are possible, but they are not trivial and can introduce many more "failure" cases. You are basically asking that they not quite so conservative with their distance calculation. But what if the battery is reading low because a few cells are failing to take a charge, or the battery has 150K miles on it and doesn't quite act like it did at low states of charge. If those cases are not recognized and tested properly, you now have a car that says you can get 75 miles when it really can only go 50 miles, a much more dangerous case to have. Not that the display should not be tweaked, or that these issues can't be dealt with, but just realize that there is an awful lot of work involved to it.

Peter

Excellent points, Robert. Is there any way that the Northeast Tesla enthusiasts could apply pressure on TM to push them toward both a software upgrade that deals realistically with the range loss associated with cold weather driving, as well as to add additional superchargers between Boston and D.C.? I would suggest that another is needed just south of Boston, for folks headed north from NYC (it's almost 170 miles from Milford to Boston - even Elon Musk admits the distance between SC should be 140 miles or less).

 

[Darren]

I have a lot less credibility in any of Broder's articles; unless he lied for a reason. Maybe this was an attempt to make Tesla reveal what can be logged and tracked by the Model S. There must be a good reason why Broder would write such an article in the first place.

 

[vfx]

GCR
[UPDATE: As of 9:45 am Thursday, it appears that The New York Times is preparing a response to the Tesla post. What form that will take--whether it's merely an update to Broder's Tuesday blog post, or something more substantial--remains to be seen.]

 

[haid]

There must be a good reason why Broder would write such an article in the first place.

How about attention? Yet another positive article won't do it, so...

 

[vfx]

...
As a side note, it looks like in terms of state-of-charge, it lost only about 7-8% overnight (corresponding to about 20 miles of rated range, I think)..

Can you expound on this?

Then can you briefly state your case?

It appears at the 400 that there is a 90 to 20 drop.

 

[carrerascott]

He may end up getting "attention" from the other prisoners if this ends up being a conspiracy or if he was short the stock...

How about attention? Yet another positive article won't do it, so...