Non-Tesla charging sucks

[FastLaneJB]

You've obviously not come across the MG4 or the budget BYD cars coming to market soon, or other cheaps cars coming out of China or super minis like the Corsa or 206 then.

Yes but there’s lots of ICE cars down in the £13k mark new. The electric Corsa is what, £30k+ I think and the MG4 is £27k. Not saying you have to be a millionaire to afford those cheaper electric cars but that’s still way too expensive for a large part of the UK population.

Maybe of course they’ll just be stuck with second hand but point is valid that EV’s at the bottom end are still roughly double the cost of an ICE. Higher up the price bracket we go the much closer you get to an ICE because the battery starts to become a much smaller part of the overall car cost.

Reducing numbers of pumps, as demand for Fossil Fuels falls, may be another factor



Price of new is going to fall, which will be reflected in used price - as that happens the owner has similar make-up-money to buy a replacement new one. So on the first one they lost their shirt, but the second one cost much the same after trade in. Not quite there yet, but another couple of years and I reckon we will be

Number of pumps is a good reason to be fair. Guess it all just depends on how long people will try to keep the last ICE cars running and on the road. That’s just a supply and demand thing vs something I think the government would do anything about. If they stop selling the cars in 2035 which is Hybrids, it’s probably got to be 2045 before demand really might stop to be dropping enough to close stations down. Far enough out to have no impact on the value of an ICE currently.

Also as there becomes less running ICE cars, they could become collector items. I mean considering the break down rate in JLR vehicles, if I have one of the few last running Diesel Discovery’s in the UK that might be worth a mint

 

[Zilla91]

Yes but there’s lots of ICE cars down in the £13k mark new. The electric Corsa is what, £30k+ I think and the MG4 is £27k. Not saying you have to be a millionaire to afford those cheaper electric cars but that’s still way too expensive for a large part of the UK population.

If that's too steep a price for a new car then go and look at second hand ones. It's nobody's God given right to buy a brand new car.

As for the price, list is largely irrelevant these days, it's all about the finance deals and at the moment MG are offering 0%

 

[FastLaneJB]

If that's too steep a price for a new car then go and look at second hand ones. It's nobody's God given right to buy a brand new car.

As for the price, list is largely irrelevant these days, it's all about the finance deals and at the moment MG are offering 0%

Agree on finance rates and they are low on a lot of EV’s because they are not selling in significant enough numbers at the moment.

However point still stands that it’s still a massive difference in price between a new ICE and EV at the low end. Yes they could go second hand but this could mean it’s old enough the battery warranty or overall warranty has gone. So they might get stung vs a new car.

 

[Zilla91]

The battery warranty will be intact for pretty much all the lower end cars since they're so new to the market

 

[FastLaneJB]

The battery warranty will be intact for pretty much all the lower end cars since they're so new to the market

OK. I was merely pointing out when you mentioned that I might not have heard of the MG4 and Electric Corsa as budget cars that they aren’t all that budget compared to a budget ICE. There’s still a ways to go getting this cost down.

 

[WannabeOwner]

If they stop selling the cars in 2035 which is Hybrids, it’s probably got to be 2045 before demand really might stop to be dropping enough to close stations down

My Googling didn't find stats for the reduction of Fossil Pumps in Norway, but I know there has been some. There was a headline in 2019 that Circle K had replaced a complete forecourt with EV stalls ... but I don't know if they have done more, of if that was just for the headline. Shell has built one (several??) brand new EV-only forecourts (in Norway) - presumably in the style of Gridserve, aiming for the benefit from greater dwell time. A dinner alongside, rather than a micro-shop.

I wonder how well the traditional forecourts will lend themselves to EV charger conversion. Sites are small, and the shops only suitable for buy-and-dash items. Although the M&S upsell-upgrade of BPs forecourt shops must have netted them some profit ...

Can't see an EV owner with no home charging going to their old BP/Shell/Esso garage to charge ... what are they going to do while they wait? More likely they will go to supermarket which will have a car park with loads of chargers stalls.

So the original in-town forecourts will, I think, more likely just close. Whoever blinks first, in each town, on loss of profits. We've had a couple close in our local town - long before EV was an influence; non-ideal location impacting profit, I expect. After the massive cleanup of the underground tanks the sites have not prospered with subsequent activities. A garage doing MOTs and repairs is still there, but the original little shop has changed hands every year or two ... its not "In town", so needs to be a specialist shop that you would travel to - there is nothing else within walking distance.

Not sure what the likely replacement landscape will be for in-town fossil forecourts, so I think more likely just wither and die. Whoever is left it's probably not a huge inconvenience to have to drive to, to fill up. Or maybe all the in-town forecourts will go and just leave the Supermarket with fossil pumps - they have an unlimited amount of tarmac space for EV chargers, no need to rush to replace any Fossil pumps until the demand approaches zero.

I'm in rural location. I have no need to rapid charge until I've gone 200 miles ... but looking at the map there are some sites on the outskirts of town (further out than Supermarkets / closer to bypass dual-carriageway) that have added rapid EV stalls (there are a few at Supermarkets, but generally only 2 stalls for "fastest kW", the rest are much more modest kW to allow longer dwell for shopping Natch! - presumably the out-of-town new sites, on/near industrial estates, either already have plenty of electricity capacity, or it can more easily be added there than in-town.

If Tesla do a deal with a Supermarket chain and put up a site in every town that would be 2-finugers to the competition I reckon - might need something a lot slower than V4 though!