NHTSA make roads across the world less safe

[jonLV]

An observation, id love input on...

NHTSA force Tesla to set up the 5 strike system.
Road deaths are going up in Australia and around the world, one big reason for this is people checking phones, and generally doing things in the car other than operating it.
In a Tesla you have the option to lock the car in the centre of the lane and keep it from hitting the car infront, simply by engaging autopilot.
You can sit like this and see cars all around you ping ponging as people arse around with their phones while driving.

Tesla put out a advertorial showing how they don't just rely on the crash test, they use real world data to make their cars safer in crash tests.
Well this is real world, people shouldn't check their phones, but they do!

We used to have the option to make our cars safer, but now if you check your phone with autopilot engaged you risk losing that helpful function, so now Tesla drivers get to ping pong all over the road in an unsafe manor like everyone else or they risk losing their wingman!

WTG NHTSA!

I know some of you are likely just itching to tell me its the law.
Wonderful, it's the law, cling to your piece of paper..... Did that stop anyone acting this way or save a life on the road?

 

[AndrewZ]

The more likely solution to this is driver monitoring and ensuring people aren’t looking at their phones, not Level 2 ADAS that emboldens people who want to look at their phones.

 

[E90alex]

Autopilot isn’t and never was sold as a self driving system despite its misleading name. It’s not meant for you to be able to scroll on your phone and not pay attention. We are not there yet. Even FSD beta is not there yet.

People got way too comfortable with Autopilot and relied on it beyond its capabilities, with Tesla more or less turning a blind eye to it which is what forced the government to step in.

Also, Autopilot is far more restrictive in other countries than in the US. The recall/update only applies to US cars.

 

[ArchHamster]

NHTSA is just like any other government agency, they want to spin their wheels indefinitely doing either bs projects or finding new and exciting ways to launder tax money into their own pockets and into the lower class for purposes of buying votes. Most of our institutions are captured by a parasite class and they will be for a long time. Expecting the government to actually accomplish something useful will lead to more headaches than its worth.

For the NHTSA, I think this sums it up perfectly. They are eagerly regulating an advanced and emerging driver assistant feature, while modern led headlights literally blind drivers on backstreet roads. Have been for years, and their response is 'we need more research.'

Regulating led headlights would piss off all their car company friends so we can't have that. One of the companies leading the way on Autonomous driving and the only company able to collect and process a ridiculous amount of data on their adas system avaible in the average joes garage? F them in particular. We aren't going to tell other car companies with adas systems that they must match teslas data collection capabilities so we can get data not tainted by sample bias to figure out if adas really does reduce the amount of deaths/accidents and if not, carefully try to regulate the reason why. No, that would piss off our boomer rich friends who are still struggling to get their ui design out of the windows xp Era.

At night, on backroads, the headlight issue is so bad that I have to fully trust fsd because it can see the road better than me. That's ridiculous. You know what else is ridiculous? During the days I almost never see roadkill on my back roads. At dawn? I pass at least 3 carcasses. I bet it's due to drivers who can't see at night from blinding oncoming headlights and run into an animal. If they wanted to start regulating attention, they should do it across the board. I see so many drivers looking at their phones while driving on the interstate that it's insane. Why do phones even let you use none emergency features when traveling at car speeds.

I totally agree that fsd shouldn't be called fsd or marketed as anything but a fancy, yet expiramental adas system, but that's not what the NHTSA is doing. They would rather enforce rules on teslas which 99 percent of human drivers don't follow and interrupts the flow of traffic while enforcing draconian driver monitoring on teslas and no one else. The message they are sending is one which encourages companies to be blissfully ignorant about the real world safety of their adas systems. That's scary.

Anyways, fsd has saved me from 3 crashes. Drunk driver trying to pit maneuver me, a tire I didn't see on the interstate, and aborting a lane change which would have crashed me into a 100+ mph speeder passing me that I didn't see because they were so far behind me. I'm a safe driver. I've never had an accident or a traffic ticket. I totally believe that responsible fsd usage makes driving safer. I also believe that any government agency who tells you they care about you are only doing so to distract you while their buddies steal the floor from right down under you. Such is life.

 

[SalisburySam]

Wow! Just wow.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

NHTSA is just like any other government agency, they want to spin their wheels indefinitely doing either bs projects or finding new and exciting ways to launder tax money into their own pockets and into the lower class for purposes of buying votes. Most of our institutions are captured by a parasite class and they will be for a long time. Expecting the government to actually accomplish something useful will lead to more headaches than its worth.

For the NHTSA, I think this sums it up perfectly. They are eagerly regulating an advanced and emerging driver assistant feature, while modern led headlights literally blind drivers on backstreet roads. Have been for years, and their response is 'we need more research.'

Total misrepresentation of the NHTSA's approach. If it had been at all heavy-handed, FSD and AP would have been far more restricted. It's very supportive and utiliarian when it comes to ADAS tech.

What they have done is have Tesla use what it is available to make sure that drivers are paying attention. Tesla's implementation can suck at times for particular vehicles, but overall what they're doing is nothing special.

Also note that in the last major update they required improved display to reduce mode confusion.

What NHTSA has _not_ done (despite the associated giant thread title) is restricted proper use of AP or FSD.

 

[RTPEV]

Well this is real world, people shouldn't check their phones, but they do!

This is the part I have to disagree with. First of all, no, not everyone does, and yeah, people shouldn't do it. Until the system is perfected, stop giving people a crutch and the ability to do something they shouldn't be doing. Because that's going to lead down a slippery slope where if a glance is okay, then maybe I can actually pick up the phone and check that message that came in. And if I can do that, well it's only going to take me 10 seconds to reply to that message. Oh wait, I thought of something else I wanted to say--I need to send another message. Isn't this autopilot great? Nothing bad has ever happened to me, so I guess I can assume it never will. I'll just go ahead and watch a few reels.

And seriously, when you guys that complain about nags and strikes start talking about how it's just a quick glance, etc., I know that is BS. My wife had been reading posts about this and how people are getting strikes and losing FSD, blah, blah, blah, so she was just refusing to use it because she was afraid to blink while using FSD. I told her to just not worry about it and use it on a recent 3 hour trip we took. Guess what: no nags, no strikes. I've figured out that it's really only sensitive when you look down. It's perfectly fine to look side to side (like checking mirrors or adjacent lanes, etc.) You can even very briefly look down, although occasionally a downward glance at the music tile or even to set Minimal Lane Changes is what will get you a nag.

It's led me to conclude that people that are getting strikes are doing far more than simply glancing at their phone. They have to be actively looking down at it for more than a second or two. So seriously, stop doing this. Real world or not.

 

[Bouba]

Is the five strikes rule for each trip or a permanent record...and is the punishment just for the one trip or permanent ? Is there a difference between the five strike rule and the old ‘Tesla jail’ ?

 

[RTPEV]

Is the five strikes rule for each trip or a permanent record...and is the punishment just for the one trip or permanent ? Is there a difference between the five strike rule and the old ‘Tesla jail’ ?

I believe it's a temporary loss of Autopilot/FSD for one or two weeks. So more than one trip, but not permanent either.

 

[Supcom]

Is the five strikes rule for each trip or a permanent record...and is the punishment just for the one trip or permanent ? Is there a difference between the five strike rule and the old ‘Tesla jail’ ?

The strikes accumulate over multiple drives until the car gets five. At this point, the car is suspended from AP (or FSD) for one week.

Note, that the strikes go against the car, not the driver. So, if you have two Teslas, you can be locked out of AP on one, yet still use AP on the other. And, once locked out, nobody can use AP on the car that is locked out.

 

[Bouba]

.....and after a week the strike count resets to zero ?

 

[KArnold]

.....and after a week the strike count resets to zero ?

Yes

 

[fholbert]

We used to have the option to make our cars safer, but now if you check your phone with autopilot engaged you risk losing that helpful function, so now Tesla drivers get to ping pong all over the road in an unsafe manor like everyone else or they risk losing their wingman!

You’re complaining that you have to remain attentive while driving?

 

[Supcom]

.....and after a week the strike count resets to zero ?

Yes. Some people who have four strikes and a planned cross couontry trip will intentionally get the fifth strike a couple weeks ahead of the trip so they can serve their sentence and reset the strike count. Better than getting suspended in the middle of the trip!

 

[jonLV]

You’re complaining that you have to remain attentive while driving?

Not at all.

My observation is that many if not all drivers do not pay attention every moment they are behind the wheel.
We have a machine, that while not perfect that is capable of paying close attention when called on.
A decision has been made to withhold that machine in the name of 'safety'.
I find that rather counter intuitive.

 

[jonLV]

The recall/update only applies to US cars.

I'm in Australia, It's been released here too.

 

[Bouba]

I have it on my French car as well
I think perhaps that it should really only apply to Beta...as Beta implies a contract where your obligation is to monitor it....whereas the rest of us bought FSD as a safety device therefore counter intuitive to turn it off

 

[JB47394]

as Beta implies a contract where your obligation is to monitor it

FSD is defined as a driver assist feature. As long as it is "beta", it's not a fully-working driver assist feature. That's all. Because FSD is a driver assist feature, you are still required by law to maintain situational awareness at all times, whether it is "beta" or not.

 

[Bouba]

FSD is defined as a driver assist feature. As long as it is "beta", it's not a fully-working driver assist feature. That's all. Because FSD is a driver assist feature, you are still required by law to maintain situational awareness at all times, whether it is "beta" or not.

Yes, I know that....but if you don’t have Beta then it’s up to the authorities to punish you not the car...was my point. But obviously I can see the reasoning for each point of view

 

[Supcom]

The OP is committing a false dichotomy logical fallacy. See if you can spot it.