NEW Model 3 Highland review!

[Destiny1701]

Contradicting statements (from the very same post)? So, it's done and they are not going back, or they might go back if enough people sufficiently dislike it?


Perhaps folks on this forum are truing to convince others to stop buying Teslas (which as you said is the most promising lever to force Teslas hand) until the stalked steering wheel is re-instroduced, so that they can upgrade their Teslas? Full disclosure, my patience is not long enough for this move, after waiting a couple of years for a Plaid with stalked steering wheel, I switched from an all Tesla garage to all VWAG instead, still EVs, both have stalked steering wheels..

Maybe it’d time you consider again!

Model X/S OEM Style Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit for Tesla

Model X/S Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit for Tesla

teslaunch.net

 

[ChooseFreedom]

Contradicting statements (from the very same post)? So, it's done and they are not going back, or they might go back if enough people sufficiently dislike it?


Perhaps folks on this forum are truing to convince others to stop buying Teslas (which as you said is the most promising lever to force Teslas hand) until the stalked steering wheel is re-instroduced, so that they can upgrade their Teslas? Full disclosure, my patience is not long enough for this move, after waiting a couple of years for a Plaid with stalked steering wheel, I switched from an all Tesla garage to all VWAG instead, still EVs, both have stalked steering wheels..

Looks contradictory when taken out of context.

My point about the change being "done" is talking about the now and near future. Tesla has already committed major resources into removing the stalks. That cannot be changed quickly.
My statement regarding Tesla changing things if they started losing enough sales directly from going stalkless, would be several years down the road if they chose to do it.
No one can ever say never. So I'm not contradicting myself. Each statement was talking about different points in time.

As for your garage change, you're telling me you switched from Tesla to VW specifically, directly, because of the stalks?
If so, that's a choice, your choice, and I'm not going to question it. You've done exactly what I said would be needed to get Tesla to change, use your wallet. It's going to take a lot more like you for it to happen though.

So are you sticking around this forum just to stay informed about Tesla?
If Tesla brings the stalks back are you going to switch your whole garage again?

 

[ChooseFreedom]

Maybe it’d time you consider again!

Model X/S OEM Style Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit for Tesla

Model X/S Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit for Tesla

teslaunch.net

Oh no, Whitex is a person of principles. They've already switched their entire garage to VW.
They're not coming back unless it's Tesla who installs the stalks.

 

[whitex]

As for your garage change, you're telling me you switched from Tesla to VW specifically, directly, because of the stalks?

Stalkless yoke was the deal breaker for both me and my wife (and she wanted a 3rd Tesla even more than I wanted one). I would have bought at least 1 more Model S and 1 Model X.

So are you sticking around this forum just to stay informed about Tesla?

Yes, but primarily because I recommended some friends and family to buy Teslas, which they still have, and I'm their support guy. Forums are the best place to get information about bugs, issues, new features, etc. Also some sentimental reason, drove Teslas for a decade.

If Tesla brings the stalks back are you going to switch your whole garage again?

Perhaps. I will look at the overall offering at the time I am looking for my next vehicle(s). After driving Porsche/Audi, Tesla feels a little lacking in luxury options, both material quality as well as technology (HUD, FLIR, Active Suspension, Apple CarPlay, more comfortable/adjustable seats, etc). To be honest, our old Model S 'es (2013/2015/2017/2018) felt more luxurious than the latest one I test drove. I still recommend Model 3/Y as the best bang for your money for a functional non-luxury EV in the USA.

 

[enemji]

Tesla has already committed major resources into removing the stalks. That cannot be changed quickly.

might apply to VW etc. Tesla can and has shown it can change any month, any quarter, or any year.

 

[ChooseFreedom]

might apply to VW etc. Tesla can and has shown it can change any month, any quarter, or any year.

Your statement makes me believe you don't have experience in a manufacturing/assembly facility, or worked in supply chain or a purchasing department before.

The only reason Tesla has the appearance of making changes on the fly, is because they don't wait for model year to release some changes like every other car maker does. But don't mistake that for them somehow having a different ability to get new parts faster.
In many cases within their supply chain, they're getting parts from the same suppliers all the other car makers are getting theirs.
So any change to physical parts (excludes software obviously), must still go through the entire supply chain process, which does not happen overnight. I'm sure Tesla has streamlined everywhere they can, but limitations will always be present.
Tesla plans each change just like every other car maker, which can take months to be ready to implement. The only difference is that Tesla doesn't have to wait once they're ready. They just do it whenever.
All other car makers (exception to safety related changes) wait for their next model year to implement their changes.

In the case of the yolk/wheel, they weren't changing every model to the yolk, so because they had plenty of supply of steering wheels, they could quickly add those as optional to the MS. Then later made the wheel standard and the yolk optional since they already had supply chain commitments for yolk production.

But removing the stalks is a FAR bigger change at every level!
They cut off the supplier of the stalks, they changed the steering column cover to remove the cutouts for the stalks, and they ordered new steering wheels with the new buttons for signals, and new physical gear buttons above the rearview mirror, plus the investment of writing new software to move the gear shifting to the screen, etc...
All those changes took months of planning, then months to ramp up production from suppliers, etc... None of that happens quickly.
And if you look back at major refreshes of models, they still do hold back several bigger changes to have more differences in the refreshes.
Tesla really isn't that much different from any other company, from a production standpoint. Yeah, they'll make minor changes any time, but other companies might even do that without announcing it if it's a small enough change.

 

[enemji]

Your statement makes me believe you don't have experience in a manufacturing/assembly facility, or worked in supply chain or a purchasing department before.

LOL how many years do you want me to say I have experience in those areas to make you comfortable? 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, or 30 years?

 

[ChooseFreedom]

LOL how many years do you want me to say I have experience in those areas to make you comfortable? 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, or 30 years?

No disrespect intended.
I just took your statement as not having considered the points I laid out, that's all.

 

[nate704]

You guys have way too much free time.......

 

[enemji]

But removing the stalks is a FAR bigger change at every level!
They cut off the supplier of the stalks, they changed the steering column cover to remove the cutouts for the stalks, and they ordered new steering wheels with the new buttons for signals, and new physical gear buttons above the rearview mirror, plus the investment of writing new software to move the gear shifting to the screen, etc...
All those changes took months of planning, then months to ramp up production from suppliers, etc... None of that happens quickly.

Agreed but it is still a change that can be easily implemented. Why? Simply because every other method simply becomes redundant. The stalks subassembly can and are easily implemented in the new steering column wheel because it is the same. It is simply an electrical signal switch and not a mechanical part that needs new gears and levers to work.

This is advantage of the simplicity of Tesla design.

 

[ChooseFreedom]

Agreed but it is still a change that can be easily implemented. Why? Simply because every other method simply becomes redundant. The stalks subassembly can and are easily implemented in the new steering column wheel because it is the same. It is simply an electrical signal switch and not a mechanical part that needs new gears and levers to work.

This is advantage of the simplicity of Tesla design.

Ease of implementation is subjective and not simple to quantify.
I'm not talking about how easy the switch would be.
Although we can agreed to disagree on our own interpretation of "easy".

I'm talking about time, money, and well, guess that's all that matters really.
Whether a switch could be made in 1 month or 9 months doesn't say anything to how "easy" it would be.
You may see the months of planning, supply chain development, and purchase order commitments, as "easy' to switch.

Even if every other method becomes redundant, are you going to keep the cost of having them? No, you're going to remove them, which then means you have to start anew with the stalks supplier, which will take time to start producing again. You have to cancel future PO's to the steering column company, but you're still committed to whatever existing PO's and inventory you already have. Same goes for the button cluster above the rearview mirror. Then you have to get the steering column supplier to start making stalked covers. Once all of this is worked out, all of this has to be coordinated on the assembly lines to swap the physical parts.
The software would need to be updated. (not just a reversion to a previous update, as other things have changed that don't need changing). You say the physical steering wheel doesn't need to change? Almost right, but not quite.
Because you have the turn signal buttons on the wheel. Those can't be left there as redundant. They would have to be reprogrammed with most of the other buttons on the wheel through programming.
Not to mention all of this would need to go through some amount of testing.

Does all of that still sound easy to you?

 

[ChooseFreedom]

You guys have way too much free time.......

What do you mean? Forum posting is my 2nd job.

 

[enemji]

Ease of implementation is subjective and not simple to quantify.
I'm not talking about how easy the switch would be.
Although we can agreed to disagree on our own interpretation of "easy".
…..
Does all of that still sound easy to you?

As you said, easy is subjective.

 

[3sr+buyer]

All other car makers (exception to safety related changes) wait for their next model year to implement their changes.

Not necessarily. However, many changes are not announced.

Also, model year boundaries are flexible. When changes in regulated characteristics are made, they are often model year aligned to reduce certification costs. The model year switchover may be moved to what is convenient within the range of January 1 previous year to January 1 model year.

 

[Kevy Baby]

You guys have way too much free time.......

Is this your first day on a message board? Places like this would die without people with too much free time

And if you want to see this in turbo-charged action, check out the Disney chat boards. I've witnessed friendships ruined over the topic of TRASH CANS (I wish I was joking).

 

[ken_neth]

My understanding is that modern auto transmissions have minimized energy loss and perfected gear selection relative to driving needs in any given situation so that they are more efficient for ICE vehicles than any person now can achieve with a manual transmission.

More or less off topic but yes, all you say is true as is an $8000.+ repair bill when the wonderful auto trans fails.

(I have a friend who has recently been whacked by TWO of these large ticket auto trans repairs - one a Dodge 2500 diesel, the other his wife's Jeep something or other. On top of that he and his family were in Arizona for the winter to blow the trans in their Razor Quad toy for another $4000. repair. $20K convenient shifting)

 

[enemji]

More or less off topic but yes, all you say is true as is an $8000.+ repair bill when the wonderful auto trans fails.

(I have a friend who has recently been whacked by TWO of these large ticket auto trans repairs - one a Dodge 2500 diesel, the other his wife's Jeep something or other. On top of that he and his family were in Arizona for the winter to blow the trans in their Razor Quad toy for another $4000. repair. $20K convenient shifting)

He needs to get a Lexus or a vehicle with an Aisin transmission

 

[Eto Demerzel]

Auto transmissions are reliable, and efficient. They can go the life of the vehicle with proper maintenance, like everything else.
Auto trans do cause hp losses and are heavy. Still, the tradeoff is more than worth it as there are almost no manuals made anymore.

This thread has turned into the height of comedy and tragedy. I guess all forum threads do...
let me recap:
No stalks is a win for Tesla. A lose for consumers.
M3 is a great, much needed upgrade to the model.
aftermarket crap is just that.

 

[dfwatt]

Auto transmissions are reliable, and efficient. They can go the life of the vehicle with proper maintenance, like everything else.
Auto trans do cause hp losses and are heavy. Still, the tradeoff is more than worth it as there are almost no manuals made anymore.

This thread has turned into the height of comedy and tragedy. I guess all forum threads do...
let me recap:
No stalks is a win for Tesla. A lose for consumers.
M3 is a great, much needed upgrade to the model.
aftermarket crap is just that.

That last point is not something on which there would be any degree of consensus from the forum. Aftermarket stuff like the suspension stuff from Mountain Pass is absolutely top drawer.

 

[ODWms]

So glad to be away from conventional transmissions, as well as the hundreds of other ICE car issues folks still have to deal with in 2024. Never again.