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Model X Price higher than announced?

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I have no doubt that the average sales price of the Model X will be around $100,000, but I think people are too quick to discount the importance of the base price. It carries with it implications in insurance and registration costs amongst other things. The base price has to begin with a 7 to keep it inline with both the Model S and other premium SUVs. In order to accomplish this, the 60 kWh (or some other size smaller than 85 kWh) battery will likely still need to be offered.

In making design decisions such as falcon wing doors, Tesla has burdened themselves with extra developmental and manufacturing costs. While these will have a slight impact on the price to consumers, I do not believe Tesla can pass the full incremental cost on to consumers given their lack of necessity in producing a functional vehicle. Tesla's main selling points are all-electric, practical range and high performance. All other design features are merely a bonus and should be charged comparably to other vehicles.

I also believe the Model X Performance variant will be the towing specialist. This will carry with it the added benefit of faster acceleration when not towing, but it will be geared more towards maintaining the same level of performance as the standard Model X while under load. The standard Model X will carry a lower maximum towing capacity or potentially not be tow rated at all.

Don't see a base price in the 70s, because:
1) It will have dual motor
2) There won't be a 60. I suppose if they could get the software right on dual motor, they might be able to keep the range at 200, given the EPA test's generous low highway speeds, but I think then that people would be incredibly disappointed when they hit the highway and their range took a very fast nosedive with speed. So, I'm expecting either they'll start at 85 (plus a possibly larger capacity option) or they'll have a slightly larger base capacity.
3) Falcon doors.
4) It's bigger.
 
2) There won't be a 60. I suppose if they could get the software right on dual motor, they might be able to keep the range at 200, given the EPA test's generous low highway speeds, but I think then that people would be incredibly disappointed when they hit the highway and their range took a very fast nosedive with speed. So, I'm expecting either they'll start at 85 (plus a possibly larger capacity option) or they'll have a slightly larger base capacity.

To clarify, is there some comment or piece of info from Tesla that suggests a 60 kWh Model X won't be offered? Other than that there is no Model S 60D (which could be missing for completely different reasons)? They still very clearly list 60 kWh on the Model X website, in several places in text as well as in graphics. I admit I haven't paid too much attention to the 60 kWh Model X story. I understand what happened to the 40 kWh Model S, of course.

- - - Updated - - -

Best case: let's say the Model X starts at $86k, the same as an S85D. Now tack on tech package, subzero, third row, towing, liftgate rack and ski attachments (or whatever the "solution" they have in mind is). Can you imagine a scenario where that comes in under six figures?

If I understand the American pricing correctly, Model S 85D with tech, subzero and third row is $93,570. If Model X 85 gets priced similarly, "third row, towing, liftgate rack and ski attachments" would probably get awfully close to $100,000, but possibly not over? Also, could the hypothetical Model X 60 kWh be an option for you, if it comes and is AWD?

The other part of the X equation that I fear I misjudged is the options, which seem more requisite for functionality than they do on the S. An S with tech but no air suspension, sound system, premium interior, dual chargers, etc. is still an S. But an X without any third row, towing or racks isn't functionally an X. So all these things I've been looking forward to -- the car Tesla is talking about -- would balloon the X in price even further. This is probably going to make me sound dumb, but when Elon initially talked about those things, I didn't even realize they'd all be add-ons.

We're all different, I guess I don't quite share that view. To me any car which is BEV + AWD and has Falcon Wings + Tesla logo is a Model X. :) That's what it is all about for me, but we all have out views of course. Functionality depends on one's needs and I think nothing wrong with speccing a car to one's needs, no matter what the potential. Even though Model X can be a space-age minivan, not all are going to need or want that. Do you need the third row? Do you need to tow stuff? If you do, then I get the point, but for example in my case those would not be use-scenarios I need the Model X for. I need the Model X for two things 1) to EV around in any weather 2) to excessively open/close Falcon Wings in public and private places without reason or being reasonable. Second being the most important reason, because in reality my P85 already does 1) pretty well and a P85D would do it just a perfectly for me. Well, Model X's ground clearance plays a small role too.

Two points that matter to me regarding a possible third-row option is, does it affect the second row convenience features and how much does it eat into luggage space? If some suitably "special" second row is only available with a third row, I might consider the third row just because. Convenience features for the rear passengers are an area where I think Model X may be special and those I would welcome, because they would actually be useful for me, second-row-wise. I would never use the third, but the special second row would be used. But if a third row doesn't majorly affect the second row functionality, and especially if being without a third row frees really useful extra luggage space (like it does on the Model S), I would gladly be without a third row. I would simply consider it a "sportier spec" for the Model X and leave the "soccer mom" spec with third row and towing for others. Sportier spec is better spec, for me.

You, of course, know what you want and need best, so buy accordingly. But if it helps at all, I wouldn't think any less of your Model X if it comes without a third-row and towing, I would simply assume you have no need for such features - I mean, they aren't really very glamorous features. Personally I would miss air suspension and premium interior far more than I would miss a third row and a hitch, because in reality I would use the latter two twice during the ownership and the former ones every day. I want to sit on air and premium leather, not in a trailer or third row. :) Someone with a large family and a cabin in the woods to constantly haul stuff to, for example, would obviously feel differently than I do, and rightly so, we are all individuals and that's a good thing.

Thanks for the food for thought, it is fun to ponder this stuff.
 
Glad to see the discussion and speculation producing useful results. That's what it is all about! Good points in the latest posts. Thank you.

If Model X still gets a 60 kWh starter model, add a "low single-digit percentage" to that, it might be the Model X starting price. I was mainly speculating on the 85, but good to bring up the 60 too.

I'd feel optimistic about a 60 kWh starter model if Tesla hadn't reversed their decision to offer AWD with the 60 kWh for the Model S. Still don't understand why they made that decision unless they knew they will be announcing discontinuance by Q2 2015 of the 60 kWh battery with a larger starter battery in it's place. Especially with priority to produce and deliver 85D's. A decision to discontinue the AWD option for the 60 kWh then makes perfect sense. Highly doubtful a 60kWh would get 200 miles in range in the X which is the minimum I believe Elon will tolerate.
 
I just spent almost an hour reading this thread and it worked... I am finally feeling sleepy...

btw.... I waited 2 extra years for my S.... paid over $50,000 more than what I was planning to pay for my next car (before Tesla it was BMW 5)... and I have never regretted the wait nor the price....

I am thinking the extra wait time and cost for the X will be similarly forgotten when I get it... in the meantime I might buy the D and sell my Signature 85...
 
<snip> I need the Model X for two things 1) to EV around in any weather 2) to excessively open/close Falcon Wings in public and private places without reason or being reasonable. Second being the most important reason ... <snip>

Amen to that. We may differ in our eventual specs, AR - I want full-on "Dad Racer" X85D/7 premium seats/air suspension/tech - but ultimately I just want awesome. I fully expect the X to cost twice what I paid for my (at the time fully-loaded) 2012 Explorer. But I also expect it to be twice as awesome.
 
I can't agree more. I think for them it was very bold to even provide such precise guidance, and I have felt my expectations have been clearly set.
My pricing heuristic has been:

1- Mentally design a model X based on Model S options
2- Design similarly equipped Model S and mentally adjust for price increases until X release date
3- Add guesstimate costs for options not available / applicable on model S (e.g. Exterior Wood Paneling, 1.21gw Flux capacitor). Keep hoping they keep supercharger access for free for Model Xs.
4- Add 10%
5- Pray that tax incentives and other EV perks don't run out before purchase date.
6- Go get the ramen noodles


I'm expecting $125K-135K for a reasonably equipped Model X out the door. That means I'll include options that are functional (suspension and good seats) and no fancy fun stuff (pretty interiors and upgraded audio). I'm not counting on tax credits at this point. It's too hard to tell what the upcoming Congress will be thinking and my state intends to impose income levels. While we don't make a lot of money for our state, the legislature really seems to want to exclude Tesla owners (whom they see as being "rich") from tax rebates.

I planned to finance some of the cost. But interest rates look like they will be rising. So that will make a difference. Will I be able to afford all four wheels -- or only three? :)

So we're eating a lot of grilled cheese sandwiches these days.

And I'm looking for Ramen on sale when I can find it. Maybe we should buy bulk and share the savings.
 
I'm expecting $125K-135K for a reasonably equipped Model X out the door. That means I'll include options that are functional (suspension and good seats) and no fancy fun stuff (pretty interiors and upgraded audio). I'm not counting on tax credits at this point. It's too hard to tell what the upcoming Congress will be thinking and my state intends to impose income levels. While we don't make a lot of money for our state, the legislature really seems to want to exclude Tesla owners (whom they see as being "rich") from tax rebates.

I planned to finance some of the cost. But interest rates look like they will be rising. So that will make a difference. Will I be able to afford all four wheels -- or only three? :)

So we're eating a lot of grilled cheese sandwiches these days.

And I'm looking for Ramen on sale when I can find it. Maybe we should buy bulk and share the savings.
I hope you are wrong for several reasons, the first being that will be a step in the wrong direction. The only real difference in the X and S as far a cost is the second motor. This would be much higher than the information out there from Tesla, this will also be out of the main stream for a luxury SUV and continue the talk of Tesla is only for the wealthy. Also will be hard for me to justify being 35 to 45k over my price point.
 
If I understand the American pricing correctly, Model S 85D with tech, subzero and third row is $93,570. If Model X 85 gets priced similarly, "third row, towing, liftgate rack and ski attachments" would probably get awfully close to $100,000, but possibly not over?


That's hard for me to imagine, but would be welcome!


Also, could the hypothetical Model X 60 kWh be an option for you, if it comes and is AWD?


Unfortunately not. Even an S60D, if available, would be cutting it too close for our regular 160-mile trip to NH in winter conditions.


I need the Model X for two things 1) to EV around in any weather


Wouldn't the AWD S handle even better in bad weather due to its lower center of gravity?


I wouldn't think any less of your Model X if it comes without a third-row and towing


It's not that I'd think less of it; it's just that it wouldn't be worth the wait and increased cost and lesser range to me. The ability to take 6 other adults on ski trips is more or less why I am waiting for it. But maybe that is misguided to begin with -- because if it can't fit seven people and all their luggage and ski gear, I might as well get an S and a roof box which can seat five very comfortably with probably even more space than the X. Normally I would be patient and happily play the waiting game, but it's hard to justify when we need a new car very soon and the S fits the bill nicely.
 
That's hard for me to imagine, but would be welcome!





Unfortunately not. Even an S60D, if available, would be cutting it too close for our regular 160-mile trip to NH in winter conditions.





Wouldn't the AWD S handle even better in bad weather due to its lower center of gravity?





It's not that I'd think less of it; it's just that it wouldn't be worth the wait and increased cost and lesser range to me. The ability to take 6 other adults on ski trips is more or less why I am waiting for it. But maybe that is misguided to begin with -- because if it can't fit seven people and all their luggage and ski gear, I might as well get an S and a roof box which can seat five very comfortably with probably even more space than the X. Normally I would be patient and happily play the waiting game, but it's hard to justify when we need a new car very soon and the S fits the bill nicely.
Just get both!
 
I'm expecting $125K-135K for a reasonably equipped Model X out the door. That means I'll include options that are functional (suspension and good seats) and no fancy fun stuff (pretty interiors and upgraded audio)
....

And I'm looking for Ramen on sale when I can find it. Maybe we should buy bulk and share the savings.

I guesstimate it'll be 125k for the Model X I'd like. I won't cut options for essential items like the 85, tech package or exterior wood paneling; but everything else can be in question.
I wondered if we could do a futures market around price points.. but it's all just more speculation frenzy which leads to expectation fixation which leads to disappointment and serves no value other than entertainment. With the MX I'm in a zen "don't expect" mode :)
 
We're at the same place, EchoDelta. Our MS is an S85, suspension package, tech, and jumpseats. That's basically what I want on my MX: so "similarly equipped" is how I arrive at that price.

A tow package is the other big requirement for me. I'm not going to trust an aftermarket shop to install a tow package on my X, because I want to do actual towing.

If they offer upgraded seats like I've seen on the new Ds on production Model X, I'd like those. That's my one Dream item. That's why I have a price range in mind. I'd love for the price to come in lower. But I think the expectation that the Model X is going to be a middle class suv is optimistic.

We had burritos for dinner tonight. They broke the budget because my husband wanted beans AND cheese. I need to work on his expectations.
 
A lot of the pricing expectation seems to hinge on how much one trusts Elon Musk's word on the "low single digit percentage" over Model S. Many have concluded that Model X will be significantly pricier and the 125-135 thousand levels fall into that category. If one assumes price will be "very similar" to Model S D, that equation changes dramatically.

Also, good points about Model X striking a price point on the market. Even though Tesla is supply-constrained, I have a hard time believing they are not working on a price-point that makes sense to the market as well. That would in my opinion prohibit setting the base price too high, which would mean some of the pricing expectations here are too pessimistic.

Of course it is possible Tesla fails to make a price-point work and are forced to release something much more expensive.
 
Personally, my 125-130 estimate is based on how I'd probably want it equipped, not base price (if that's what you meant)

It was in reference to K9s and Mes: "I'm expecting $125K-135K for a reasonably equipped Model X out the door." and some other comments of its kind. I don't know if your 125-30 was in reference to a non-Perf or Performance model?

My point was that *if* Model X pricing is comparable to Model S D, it is very hard to get to 125-135, unless a Performance model. (Forgetting about possible subsidies and additional taxes.) If Model X is priced very similar to Model S D, even if low single-digit percentages higher, the average Model X would be a lot cheaper than 125-135, especially if we look at non-Performance models, which "reasonably equipped" would infer.

An 85D with most options costs, what, $100-110k. A "reasonably equipped" one can be had at even less. Hence my assumption, Model X 85 with most options (though not all if they add many new convenience options), could be in that range. It would be the performance models that would be in 125-135 range, if this pricing estimate would prevail. To me, it seems most people here expect a price higher than this here on TMC, so just offering alternative perspective for discussion.

Background being, before Model S D unveil, Elon Musk said Model X would - due to second motor - start at "low single-digit percentages" more than Model S. He said this at the London 2013 store unveil. This might have even been in reference to Model S RWD pricing, because offering the second motor as the reason for the slight increase over price. If this remains true, I would expect the pricing estimates here to be pessimistic - even if Elon's reference point would have been Model S D. It seems to me some people are expecting 10-20% higher prices than Model S all wheel drive, when Elon Musk's quote could have meant as low as under 5% over Model S rear wheel drive.

Now, of course it is possible Tesla fails to make Elon Musk's pricing hopes, and things have changed since those comments in 2013, then it will be a different story and the "pessimistic" views may well turn out correct. Also, it is possible Tesla will get to a low starting price for Model X by reducing standard requipment, which would add options costs compared to Model S. Just offering the alternative based on those early Elon Musk quotes plus some logic, offered by others on this thread, that says it might hurt Tesla's mission to price Model X too far above the current premium SUV segment - a base price of six figures surely would be quite far above considering any PR implications.

It surely would look a lot better if they can start Model X at something like $75-79k if 60 kWh happens and $85k-89k for 85 kWh. They have a loftier goal and making Model X - and thus EV motoring - seem too expensive might hurt that goal.

This speculation may turn out to be completely wrong, of course, time will tell. Just offering one more view point. Speculation, it is all we've got, so far. :)
 
So with the new Model S 70D starting at $75K including supercharging Im hoping the price of a "similarly equipped" Model X 70 might work a little better in my budget. I was reluctant to consider a 60 but I might be more willing to get a 70 and save some money.
 
So with the new Model S 70D starting at $75K including supercharging Im hoping the price of a "similarly equipped" Model X 70 might work a little better in my budget. I was reluctant to consider a 60 but I might be more willing to get a 70 and save some money.

I'd consider it too...but we really need the extra mileage a couple times a year. Also, because the X is less aerodynamic, I'm not sure how much range the 70 kWh will actually provide.