Model S Wheel Pricing & Performance: Std|Perf|Sig

[ckessel]

You bundle the high margin stuff with low/no margin items with high value so you can profit.

If anything, I'd think the tires would have the lowest margin since Tesla is a pure reseller and has no value add on that item, unlike the others in the perf package (air suspension, leather interior, Tesla's proprietary powertrain upgrade).

I really have no idea of course, no special insight, I'd just suspect Tesla's biggest money makers would be the things they control rather than resell.

 

[ElSupreme]

For the base Model S you can choose 3 wheels, "not upgrade individually" to 3 wheels. You'd be able to upgrade from the standard 19" wheels to 2 other wheel choices. And Tesla does offer the performance wheel separately for the base model, as opposed to what you said. The BMW M5 is essentially BMW's performance version of its 5 series. So is the AMG series for Mercedes-Benz. And those performance cars allow you to individually upgrade to performance wheels. Hell, the AMG allows 4 different wheel choices all at different prices. Again, as I said before, this is in stark contrast to how the Performance Model S is being handled. Charging you for the highest price wheel regardless of which option you go with. Not sure what you were trying to say there, because there was a lot of misinformation in it.

This is what you get on a base 328i Coupe:
V Spoke (Style 338) 17 x 8.0 light alloy wheels, 225/45 run-flat[SUP]1[/SUP] all-season tires

This is what you get on a base M Coupe:
Double Spoke (Style 219M) Bright Silver finish M light alloy wheels, 18 x 8.5 front, 18 x 9.5 rear; 245/40 front and 265/40 rear performance tires[SUP]1
[/SUP]
This is what you get on a base 528i Sedan:
Star Spoke (Style 327) 17 x 8.0 light alloy wheels, 225/55 run-flat[SUP]1[/SUP] all-season

This is what you get on a base M5 Sedan:
19" M light-alloy wheels Double-spoke 345M with mixed tyres (from BMW Corporate site because USA doesn't have specs)

How are these the same wheels? I can't see how you can even get 17" wheels on the M Coupe! Much less 17" wheels on an M5! Tesla lets you get the smaller wheels if you want! Sure you don't get money back but at least you have the choice.

All your other comments are based on the NUMBER of choices. And no you can't get the grey 'Performance Wheel' as an option. You can get a 21" wheel that is silver. Sure you can get bigger wheels on the performance BMWs but they already come with bigger wheels.

 

[ElSupreme]

If anything, I'd think the tires would have the lowest margin since Tesla is a pure reseller and has no value add on that item, unlike the others in the perf package (air suspension, leather interior, Tesla's proprietary powertrain upgrade).

I really have no idea of course, no special insight, I'd just suspect Tesla's biggest money makers would be the things they control rather than resell.

Lets do this thought exercise ... Tesla buys 19" wheels for $500 each. They put them on their car. Tesla buys 21" wheels for $750 each. They charge $3,500 for them, but they only cost an additional $1000. That is $2,500 of PURE PROFIT. You don't have to make something to put a 350% markup on it.

I am not saying these numbers are correct, but I would bet money that wheel upgrades are cash cows for auto manufacturers.

 

[spatterso911]

My point exactly. I don't ever remember having a choice with M5 wheels with exception to painted vs. chrome plated. Certainly never had an option for 18" wheels, and if so, there would be no refund coming my way.

Edit1: Chrome was significantly more expensive, by the way...

 

[stopcrazypp]

This is what you get on a base 328i Coupe:
V Spoke (Style 338) 17 x 8.0 light alloy wheels, 225/45 run-flat[SUP]1[/SUP] all-season tires

This is what you get on a base M Coupe:
Double Spoke (Style 219M) Bright Silver finish M light alloy wheels, 18 x 8.5 front, 18 x 9.5 rear; 245/40 front and 265/40 rear performance tires[SUP]1
[/SUP]
This is what you get on a base 528i Sedan:
Star Spoke (Style 327) 17 x 8.0 light alloy wheels, 225/55 run-flat[SUP]1[/SUP] all-season

This is what you get on a base M5 Sedan:
19" M light-alloy wheels Double-spoke 345M with mixed tyres (from BMW Corporate site because USA doesn't have specs)

How are these the same wheels? I can't see how you can even get 17" wheels on the M Coupe! Much less 17" wheels on an M5! Tesla lets you get the smaller wheels if you want! Sure you don't get money back but at least you have the choice.

All your other comments are based on the NUMBER of choices. And no you can't get the grey 'Performance Wheel' as an option. You can get a 21" wheel that is silver. Sure you can get bigger wheels on the performance BMWs but they already come with bigger wheels.

I was about to post the same thing but you did the research for me :wink:. People are making the wrong analogy. Other makes provide more expensive wheel options for their Performance models, but that's not the same as making base wheels available (they obviously aren't). The only difference Tesla is doing is allow you to downgrade back to base wheels (albeit with no money back).

 

[ckessel]

Lets do this thought exercise ...
I am not saying these numbers are correct, but I would bet money that wheel upgrades are cash cows for auto manufacturers.

And I could run a thought exercise that says Tesla makes no money on wheel upgrades. We're purely making up numbers though, so I'm not sure what knowledge that gains us.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I went and picked the most decked out Mustang Shelby with every option by default. It comes with the better tires. You can choose the lesser tires and it credits you back $3,495 on the price.

So, a credit for a tire downgrade by another manufacture definitely exists.

View attachment 5417

Nope. I went and tried out your configuration. The Shelby GT500 comes stock with 820A wheels. The 821A wheels ("Tarnished" wheels) are optional (a $3495 option). What you are doing is removing that option, not actually downgrading wheels that came standard with the car.

The correct analogy would be if you can downgrade the GT500 to the 18" GT wheels or the 17" V6 wheels, but you don't get that option. You can only option higher and not lower (I looked at the GT and it's the same case, you can't opt for 17" wheels).

And given Ford is charging $3.5k for a slightly different wheel color and style, it makes the Model S's charges seem tame (you at least get bigger wheels and higher performance tires).

 

[spatterso911]

Nope. I went and tried out your configuration. The Shelby GT500 comes stock with 820A wheels. The 821A wheels ("Tarnished" wheels) are optional (a $3495 option). What you are doing is removing that option, not actually downgrading wheels that came standard with the car.

The correct analogy would be if you can downgrade to the normal 18" GT wheels or the 17" V6 wheels, but you don't get that option. You can only option higher and not lower.

And comes with the entire SVT performance package as well. Dropping the wheels also drops the interior enhancements and Torsen diff.

 

[ckessel]

And comes with the entire SVT performance package as well. Dropping the wheels also drops the interior enhancements and Torsen diff.

Yea I caught that too after the fact, sorry guys, I deleted the post and thought I'd gotten rid of it before anyone had a chance to see it and respond.

 

[spatterso911]

We're watching this thread like hawks I guess!:biggrin:

 

[ElSupreme]

We're watching this thread like hawks I guess!:biggrin:

Sure it isn't falcons?

Anyway I am sure whatever we are watching like it sure is a raptor! :biggrin:

 

[stopcrazypp]

And I could run a thought exercise that says Tesla makes no money on wheel upgrades. We're purely making up numbers though, so I'm not sure what knowledge that gains us.

You don't actually have to make up numbers. Both tires are already known. The wheel styles are also known: the 21" wheels are a clone of the Lorinser RS8 wheels that were on the original Tesla Model S. These wheels cost about $1050 a piece for 21", and $900 a piece for 19". If you can find out what the 19" are a clone of you can figure out the actual retail wheel costs and how much direct margin Tesla is making from the wheel options.

 

[onlinespending]

How are these the same wheels? I can't see how you can even get 17" wheels on the M Coupe! Much less 17" wheels on an M5! Tesla lets you get the smaller wheels if you want! Sure you don't get money back but at least you have the choice.

But, even if you can't get the 528i wheels on the M5, they do give you a choice of other wheels and they are individually priced (see AMG also, as it has even more options). It's not as if they give you a choice of wheels (of varying grade/cost), but charge you the same for each. Perhaps Tesla would be better off only offering the 19" wheels for non-performance models and only the 21" wheels for the performance model. It'd be more restrictive, but at least it'd be consistent. And if people wanted to depart from the standard wheels for their respective edition, then they could swap. People would be swapping purely due to the fact that they can't get the option, not because of some arbitrage situation created by Tesla.

 

[Beavis]

Keep obsessing, people! I have noticed a pattern in Tesla's timing of information releases. Every time we are about to storm Fremont with pitchforks and torches over options & pricing, center consoles, or the design center, George comes out with something new. So let's keep up the banter to show George we are ready for our next Scooby snack of info.

 

[ckessel]

Keep obsessing, people!

Hey, we all need a hobby, no judging!

 

[spatterso911]

But, even if you can't get the 528i wheels on the M5, they do give you a choice of other wheels and they are individually priced

Are you referring to the EU site? In the US, I don't remember ever having the option to change wheels, with exception of paying more for a chromed set of the M-double spoke 19" wheels. I opted not to. On the M3, you can choose 2 different styles of 19" wheels for an extra expense, but you'd never get an option for 17" wheels on the M3, nor would you get 18" wheels on the M5 (e60). I believe the F10 M5 comes with 20" wheels now, not sure if 19" wheels are offered. I will ask.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think the core of the issue is that Tesla chose to start with 19" wheels as base wheels, while pretty much all their competitors start with 17" or 18" wheels). This decision pushed their Performance and Signature wheels into the 21", which is not that common.

If they had the base model with 17" or 18" wheels and the Performance/Sig have 19" wheels, we probably won't be having this discussion.

 

[spatterso911]

I wonder if there is some technical reason for the 21" size? I noticed that the Fisker comes with 22" wheels. Anybody have a theory on why large diameter wheels? Is it a technical thing, or purely aesthetic??

 

[jerry33]

I wonder if there is some technical reason for the 21" size? I noticed that the Fisker comes with 22" wheels. Anybody have a theory on why large diameter wheels? Is it a technical thing, or purely aesthetic??

There is some performance impact in certain situations (typically cornering) at the expense of other performance factors, but mostly its because tire sidewalls are considered ugly so making them smaller improves looks ( if you think so).

Tire manufacturers love low profile tires because they wear out sooner. The Michelin tires that came to North America in the 1970s easily lasted 80,000 miles or longer. Low profile tires last far less and are more prone to damage. However, the public has been sold on low profile tires even though they are non-optimal for most real-world situations.

 

[dsm363]

I think people would have been more upset if Tesla locked you into the 21" wheels in the performance version and then you had to pay an additional $2,000 or so for the aero wheels.