Model S P85D lower and lower range for 3 - years - WARRANTY ENDING SOON - what to do?

[aerodyne]

End result of this round with Tesla:

They told me they'd get back to me on the data I emailed them after researching with their tech team - but they never did, completely ignoring it instead. I spent hours compiling the data from pictures of my cars dashboard from every trip and sent it to them. It showed the kwh in and out was even further off than I thought, and my car's real world usable amount of battery is between 48-59 kwH. Not to mention the constant BMS issues that tesla was telling me they see as a problem on my car - during even this visit. I reminded them, and they told me they want to look the data I provided, and will get back to me tomorrow. This happened no less than 3 times - no feedback, still.

So then I went in person to talk to them, they wouldn't let me talk to anyone technical. But they told me (again) they promise get back to me tomorrow.

Then they didn't get back to me, closed my ticket suddenly and told me my car was ready - I reminded them that they hadn't gotten back to me on the very issue I brought it there for, and it's not fixed, or even researched. They said they don't need to research it because my car is old, and the battery is supposed to be bad and relay bad info - and their computers can't even read any data at all from my battery - because it's so old (I have this documented, btw), and they don't have warranties on battery range on my year car - I told them it's not about range - it's about having a repeated error and the data showing it - and the trip and usage data being way off from the energy going back into the car to cover those few miles. This is in addition to their techs telling me I have a problem with the battery pack that they see - so it's clearly not only a range issue.

The person named "Joe" said he hasn't heard of any of the other tech's names that I talked to, and implied they don't exist and I was making up the idea that they'd do more research - then started bullying me on the phone - and said they'd start collecting storage fees in 2 days - then hung up on me, IMMEDIATELY added $351 in fake storage fees (didn't even wait 5 minutes, let alone 2 days), and put another another $92.50 diagnosis fee, then told me to come get my key and that my account is going to collections.

When I went in person, the service advisor told me they ARE STILL RESEARCHING IT (clearly not true - just them playing good cop bad cop in a way so repeated it feels like unofficial company policy).

Then he proceeds to tell me their location is under pressure from someone higher up at Tesla corporate to get my car out of there because someone noticed it has been located there for a while and they're not done with it. He said I need to get it out of there, but they're still researching it, and PROMISED they'd still get back to me on the technical research tomorrow (Friday) - which of course they didn't.

He got rid of the fake charges, and told me that because he removed the newly added fake charges (I have screenshots w/ timestamps), I now need to take my key and take my car away to repay them for removing the drummed up charges. I said they can't use bullying and the threat of false charges to make me cancel my appointment without it being completed - he assured me that my warranty coverage still applies and because I reported all of this, they will continue to look at it.

Yeah right.

They still have my car, and I told them I'll only get it AFTER they do what they promised - and have someone on the technical team get back to me on the supposed research they're doing.
He told me even though the ticket is closed, I can still message them on the ticket.

Over the weekend, that ability was taken away, as they hard closed the ticket somehow and I can't respond to them.
So I am immediately opening a new ticket to go to a different service center, and going to use the scan my tesla app.

I used to like this company and product a lot.
It seems they go out of their way to tell false promises about fixes, and have a combination of nice polite people and very rude people telling the customer completely conflicting things, as a matter of policy and customer bullying.

This is horrible. Can't blame incompetence. Willful malfeasance. Of course they can open Toolbox as see the CAC of every module in the HV pack, they can even do it remotely, I watched them!

I'd get your car back while you still can. You have lots of documentation, perhaps if you go to a SvC in a different region you will be treated better.

SMT should show Nominal full capacity of over 70KwH for a "85". You should see 63 ish since this includes the 4 KwH buffer. This sounds way low to me.

With last year's updates, you might be able to go into Service mode and do a battery test. Not sure if this works with pre refresh.

Have you contacted Recall or WK057 for third party options?

 

[Rocky_H]

I'd get your car back while you still can.

I'm not sure about that. It's unclear which way the leverage goes. It sounds like your car being there with a pending issue is really bothering some people, and they are getting really desperate to get it gone to make some people feel better. So that sounds like @P85D-low-range can press that issue by telling them there is a very specific certain way to get the car removed, and that is to DO WHAT YOU SAID AND FIX IT! If you succumb to the bullying and just remove the car without any fix, it becomes way too easy for them to consider it completely done with and switch to blocking and ignoring you forever. I think I might tend to keep the irritation there, so it keeps the motivation on them to resolve it.

 

[aerodyne]

I'm not sure about that. It's unclear which way the leverage goes. It sounds like your car being there with a pending issue is really bothering some people, and they are getting really desperate to get it gone to make some people feel better. So that sounds like @P85D-low-range can press that issue by telling them there is a very specific certain way to get the car removed, and that is to DO WHAT YOU SAID AND FIX IT! If you succumb to the bullying and just remove the car without any fix, it becomes way too easy for them to consider it completely done with and switch to blocking and ignoring you forever. I think I might tend to keep the irritation there, so it keeps the motivation on them to resolve it.

But it does not sound like he is getting any traction there...could be hit with storage fees.

 

[wk057]

The very TL;DR summary: I call BS.

The TL;DR version:

I've dealt with a lot of batteries and other issues. I've read through this person's posts and, honestly aside from some pretty bad communication and internal consistency (par for the course with Tesla)... I think there's malice being implied where there is none... and the OP is just upset he hasn't been able to get Tesla to give him a free battery upgrade despite the existing battery showing no errors.

What's the BMS error? Is there one? There doesn't seem to be, therefore no warranty coverage.

Energy usage is not related to energy capacity also, and the OP seems to be conflating the two and has never provided any actual data on what this battery issue is.

He's even posted that the car charges to 230 miles of rated range, which is < 10% degradation for a P85D... and not bad at all. So I'm really skeptical there are any issues whatsoever.

---

Long version:

End result of this round with Tesla:

They told me they'd get back to me on the data I emailed them after researching with their tech team - but they never did, completely ignoring it instead. I spent hours compiling the data from pictures of my cars dashboard from every trip and sent it to them. It showed the kwh in and out was even further off than I thought, and my car's real world usable amount of battery is between 48-59 kwH. Not to mention the constant BMS issues that tesla was telling me they see as a problem on my car - during even this visit. I reminded them, and they told me they want to look the data I provided, and will get back to me tomorrow. This happened no less than 3 times - no feedback, still.

So then I went in person to talk to them, they wouldn't let me talk to anyone technical. But they told me (again) they promise get back to me tomorrow.

Then they didn't get back to me, closed my ticket suddenly and told me my car was ready - I reminded them that they hadn't gotten back to me on the very issue I brought it there for, and it's not fixed, or even researched.

The above seems like speculation with no real data. Do you have CAN data from the vehicle?

They said they don't need to research it because my car is old, and the battery is supposed to be bad and relay bad info - and their computers can't even read any data at all from my battery - because it's so old (I have this documented, btw)

This is quite incorrect. The battery stats are reported by every model of Tesla almost identically. Even the oldest 2012 Signature S, running recent-ish firmware (2016+) will report battery data to Tesla the same as a 2023 Plaid X.

, and they don't have warranties on battery range on my year car

Correct. The warranty on all P85Ds explicitly never covered loss of range.

- I told them it's not about range - it's about having a repeated error and the data showing it -

What data? Please provide this.

and the trip and usage data being way off from the energy going back into the car to cover those few miles.

Energy usage has nothing to do with the battery pack. Could be all sorts of reasons why you'd get less than expected mileage, ranging from wrong tires, bad alignment, worn wheel bearings, and of course the most common: a little too much lead in the foot.

You've posted your car has 230 miles of range shown at full. That's derived directly from the BMS's internal calculation of usable pack capacity and would be quite on par with an 8 year old P85D, maybe even a little better than average.

So I don't see the issue.

This is in addition to their techs telling me I have a problem with the battery pack that they see - so it's clearly not only a range issue.

Again, what's the "problem". Did the battery throw an error message? What's the message?

The person named "Joe" said he hasn't heard of any of the other tech's names that I talked to, and implied they don't exist and I was making up the idea that they'd do more research - then started bullying me on the phone - and said they'd start collecting storage fees in 2 days - then hung up on me, IMMEDIATELY added $351 in fake storage fees (didn't even wait 5 minutes, let alone 2 days), and put another another $92.50 diagnosis fee, then told me to come get my key and that my account is going to collections.

Tesla's storage costs are pretty well documented and I believe start accumulating 48 hrs after they close the ticket and mark it ready for pickup. They usually waive this, but I'd expect you haven't been the easiest customer to work with, so I don't particularly blame them for not extending that courtesy.

When I went in person, the service advisor told me they ARE STILL RESEARCHING IT (clearly not true - just them playing good cop bad cop in a way so repeated it feels like unofficial company policy).

Then he proceeds to tell me their location is under pressure from someone higher up at Tesla corporate to get my car out of there because someone noticed it has been located there for a while and they're not done with it. He said I need to get it out of there, but they're still researching it, and PROMISED they'd still get back to me on the technical research tomorrow (Friday) - which of course they didn't.

Not sure what there is to research at this point. If there's no errors and the pack is functional, there's not much to research. The latest firmwares are quite capable of diagnosing and flagging pretty much any issue with the battery packs unrelated to normal degradation.

He got rid of the fake charges, and told me that because he removed the newly added fake charges (I have screenshots w/ timestamps), I now need to take my key and take my car away to repay them for removing the drummed up charges.

Not fake charges. Read the policies (generally on every invoice, and can vary slightly from area to area).

I said they can't use bullying and the threat of false charges to make me cancel my appointment without it being completed - he assured me that my warranty coverage still applies and because I reported all of this, they will continue to look at it.

Yeah right.

I mean, it does sound like they're trying to get rid of you at this point, but I don't particularly blame them. If there's no errors there's no errors. If there are, what are they?

They still have my car, and I told them I'll only get it AFTER they do what they promised - and have someone on the technical team get back to me on the supposed research they're doing.

Yeah, probably not the right move here on your part, especially after they goodwilled the storage costs anyway.

He told me even though the ticket is closed, I can still message them on the ticket.

Over the weekend, that ability was taken away, as they hard closed the ticket somehow and I can't respond to them.

This seems to be how the service chat works. Once closed its done. Not sure why anyone would tell you differently, but lack of knowledge on these things seems common at least.

So I am immediately opening a new ticket to go to a different service center.

They have access to all of the same information and are going to tell you the same thing if there are no errors showing. Probably a waste of time.

Reminds me of something I was told years ago by a police officer who was handling repeated bogus calls from someone and said she was "cop shopping" hoping to find an officer who would do something about her imagined issue to the detriment of the person she had some kind of vendetta against. In your case you're hoping Tesla gives you some kind of upgrade for free for your >8 year old car... which isn't likely to happen no matter how many service centers you go to.

and going to use the scan my tesla app.

Good starting point, although scanmytesla doesn't have enough data to diagnose most issues related to loss of range.

I used to like this company and product a lot.
It seems they go out of their way to tell false promises about fixes, and have a combination of nice polite people and very rude people telling the customer completely conflicting things, as a matter of policy and customer bullying.

I've noted on several occasions that service has gone downhill. In your case, though, aside from pretty terrible communication all around... I don't see what they could do differently here beside improve communication.

If their tools are not showing errors, the car is usable and not showing the driver errors... then I don't think there is a lot they can do here.

---

All of that said, if you decide to get a raw CAN log (not output from some app like SMT, but an actual raw CAN log) with > 5 minutes of logging while the car is on (drive rail on ready to go into gear), then I'll gladly take a look on a time-permitting basis and see if there's anything worth complaining about. (Goes for any S/X folks here as well.)

 

[Rocky_H]

But it does not sound like he is getting any traction there...could be hit with storage fees.

But there is now plenty of documented written evidence from the technicians saying they DO see a problem and ARE NOT done with his car and ARE still working on it.

 

[Rocky_H]

and the OP is just upset he hasn't been able to get Tesla to give him a free battery upgrade despite the existing battery showing no errors

I appreciate your vast knowledge about Tesla's in general, but that's some unwarranted accusation and conjecture of the OP's motives on this particular situation.

So I'm really skeptical there are any issues whatsoever.

He has written communication from the technicians there that they see something that doesn't look right and are researching it.

So we don't have information of what the problem is here in this thread. That would be unknown for us. That's not enough to declare there isn't any problem when Tesla technicians have said the opposite.

Also, that wouldn't make sense from the longstanding pattern of Tesla behavior. The default from all of people's thousands of range complaints was dismissal and ignoring and refusing to even consider there is a problem. That's what they always do. This is shockingly different in them actually saying they DO see a problem.

 

[wk057]

But there is now plenty of documented written evidence from the technicians saying they DO see a problem and ARE NOT done with his car and ARE still working on it.

I'd have to assume this is a tech misinterpreting log data at this point. There are tons of internal BMS "errors" that are just informative for logging purposes that are not an indication of any actual issue, and I've seen newbie Tesla techs see these and go "battery problem". Sounds like this all boils down to general modern Tesla service incompetence and poor communication, which most people, aside from the most diehard Tesla fans, are willing to admit has been a huge problem lately.

The bottom line is that if this guy's car is working, and is a P85D that charges to 230 miles.... there's a 99.999% chance there's no battery problem.

I appreciate your vast knowledge about Tesla's in general, but that's some unwarranted accusation and conjecture of the OP's motives on this particular situation.

It's based on his own posts that he specifically even asked Tesla for that treatment (90 upgrade), the limited useful info in the rest of the posts, other sources, and the continued persistence despite no actual issues.

He has written communication from the technicians there that they see something that doesn't look right and are researching it.

See above.

So we don't have information of what the problem is here in this thread. That would be unknown for us. That's not enough to declare there isn't any problem when Tesla technicians have said the opposite.

For the record, I conferred with a contact at Tesla before writing anything here and everything I've noted is pretty spot on with the info available via that channel.

 

[kirkusss]

All of that said, if you decide to get a raw CAN log (not output from some app like SMT, but an actual raw CAN log) with > 5 minutes of logging while the car is on (drive rail on ready to go into gear), then I'll gladly take a look on a time-permitting basis and see if there's anything worth complaining about. (Goes for any S/X folks here as well.)

@wk057 would gladly pay for such service. Maybe you could offer it as a flat rate, especially for those coming close to the end of their warranties. Mine is going out in 20 days and after the 6000km done in the last 10 days I am less worried about the pack’s health (SC speed is the main issue, nothing to do there..), but would love getting more data on this. Please let me know if you have some time in the next weeks.

 

[Rocky_H]

and I've seen newbie Tesla techs see these and go "battery problem". Sounds like this all boils down to general modern Tesla service incompetence and poor communication, which most people, aside from the most diehard Tesla fans, are willing to admit has been a huge problem lately.

Then what needs to happen here is that Tesla needs to clean up their own mess internally, get experienced people to teach those techs what is going on in this situation, and then have them explain to the customer what they had wrong and that they realize now there isn't a problem. THEN they can close the ticket.

continued persistence despite no actual issues.

But we are not you. How would a regular person know there are "no actual issues" when Tesla is telling him there is an issue. Again, you are attributing bad motives to the customer for simply believing what Tesla is telling him. That's not fair.

You're probably right technically, but Tesla needs to pull their heads out of their asses and stop telling this specific customer they see a problem with his battery and correct that misinformation before they can resolve this.

 

[wk057]

Then what needs to happen here is that Tesla needs to clean up their own mess internally, get experienced people to teach those techs what is going on in this situation, and then have them explain to the customer what they had wrong and that they realize now there isn't a problem. THEN they can close the ticket.

Sure, that'd be nice. But it's not going to happen.

But we are not you. How would a regular person know there are "no actual issues" when Tesla is telling him there is an issue. Again, you are attributing bad motives to the customer for simply believing what Tesla is telling him. That's not fair.

But they later decided to replace his drive unit under warranty (likely related to a power usage issue, and maybe even internal BMS flags about it, since he said it was making noise), and said his car service was completed and he should pickup the car.

That sounds like Tesla telling him its done to me. If he picks it up, and there's an issue, then alright sure, press them to take care of it. But instead, the customer isn't accepting that the work is completed and instead keeps pressing them for a new battery.

You're probably right technically, but Tesla needs to pull their heads out of their asses and stop telling this specific customer they see a problem with his battery and correct that misinformation before they can resolve this.

Unfortunately given Tesla's track record, that's unlikely to happen. Their customer facing communication is complete garbage these days in most cases.

This guy needs to get his car back, drive it, determine if there's still whatever issue he thinks there is (and hopefully get some actual CAN data to "prove" it if it is an actual issue) and go from there.

Refusing to pickup the car when they say it's ready to go is just silly.

 

[kirkusss]

@P85D-low-range , have you tested a full charge with a long drive after within speed limits + max 10%?
I have terrible reported capacity when I do a lot of shorter drives, to roughly 50-55 kWh in the trips screen.
But managed to get up to 67 kWh of out in a single drive. The below is from few days ago in hot temps (Florida), one shot from an overnight 100% AC charge. The arrival SOC was 4%. I suspect some coolant pump consumption to not be accounted for, I have around of 68-69 kWh usable based on SMT

 

[Rocky_H]

Refusing to pickup the car when they say it's ready to go is just silly.

But picking it up when they're saying there's still a problem with it and they're still working on it is also silly. So it's a no win situation.

 

[wk057]

But picking it up when they're saying there's still a problem with it and they're still working on it is also silly. So it's a no win situation.

If the service ticket is closed, they're not working on anything.

Hard enough to get them to do things with an open ticket. You really think they're "still working on it" with a closed one? lol

 

[aerodyne]

If the service ticket is closed, they're not working on anything.

Hard enough to get them to do things with an open ticket. You really think they're "still working on it" with a closed one? lol

We can agree I think that the SvC will tell you just about anything to get you to go away.

Like when I complained about cameras not being calibrated...they said the car was dirty. I had just washed it!

 

[Rocky_H]

If the service ticket is closed, they're not working on anything.

Hard enough to get them to do things with an open ticket. You really think they're "still working on it" with a closed one? lol

You seem to want to hear only one thing and refuse to acknowledge that something different is also being said. He is being told two opposite things. He is still being told they are still working on it by some people. But then is also being told they are done with it by different people. That's a problem.

We can agree I think that the SvC will tell you just about anything to get you to go away.

Well they could, by having the techs send a message to admit that they were confused and they don't see an issue after all. If they would stop stringing him along, they could put an end to it.

 

[ucmndd]

You seem to want to hear only one thing and refuse to acknowledge that something different is also being said. He is being told two opposite things. He is still being told they are still working on it by some people. But then is also being told they are done with it by different people. That's a problem.

This guy has been trying to drum up problems for months were none exists (or at minimum conflating a consumption problem with a capacity problem in his singular quest for a new battery). He's forum shopping trying desperately to get someone to agree with what he's decided he wants and is owed, namely a new battery. The story has changed repeatedly and the actual facts are few and far between (on the first page of this thread he reported averaging 415wh/mi, no wonder he's not getting rated range!).

No doubt you'll get different responses, consolations, and dismissals when repeatedly trying to push a battery issue that has been, by all accounts, manifested.

They "looked into it", probably more than they had any real obligation to given OPs persistence. They found no issues. There are no customer-facing battery alerts. The car charges to what is by all accounts a healthy range at 100%. Case closed.

 

[wk057]

Well they could, by having the techs send a message to admit that they were confused and they don't see an issue after all. If they would stop stringing him along, they could put an end to it.

That'd end nothing, guarantee it. The only thing this guy wants to hear is "Okay, we'll swap your battery with a brand new 90 battery for free." He's pretty much said as much in his posts.

This guy has been trying to drum up problems for months were none exists (or at minimum conflating a consumption problem with a capacity problem in his singular quest for a new battery). He's forum shopping trying desperately to get someone to agree with what he's decided he wants and is owed, namely a new battery. The story has changed repeatedly and the actual facts are few and far between (on the first page of this thread he reported averaging 415wh/mi, no wonder he's not getting rated range!).

No doubt you'll get different responses, consolations, and dismissals when repeatedly trying to push a battery issue that has been, by all accounts, manifested.

They "looked into it", probably more than they had any real obligation to given OPs persistence. They found no issues. There are no customer-facing battery alerts. The car charges to what is by all accounts a healthy range at 100%. Case closed.

 

[Doanster1]

@P85D-low-range , have you tested a full charge with a long drive after within speed limits + max 10%?
I have terrible reported capacity when I do a lot of shorter drives, to roughly 50-55 kWh in the trips screen.
But managed to get up to 67 kWh of out in a single drive. The below is from few days ago in hot temps (Florida), one shot from an overnight 100% AC charge. The arrival SOC was 4%. I suspect some coolant pump consumption to not be accounted for, I have around of 68-69 kWh usable based on SMT

This is what I’ve been asking/saying. Clearly he couldn’t have any recent opportunity to go on a long drive since his car has been at the SC for a long time, but I asked the question early on with no answer. I posted my data showing I, too, only got ~125miles, but that’s over a full seven days of short trips and always cold battery in winter temps. Vampire drain alone accounted for 30-something miles right off the top. Had like 20-something miles/<10% left when I charged up again. Avg consumption was in the high 300s and I’m running heavier staggered 20s. Gotta find an opp for a road trip or just wait for warmer weather to hopefully get better range overall.
So while I agree that there’s prob no battery prob for OP, could def be a software/reporting issue when it comes to kWH used since last charge. How would that include vampire drain?

 

[Doanster1]

Doh… OP shows as Banned now? I need updates!

 

[ucmndd]

I’m not sure what happened. He fired off some DMs to me and apparently several others saying his character was being attacked and he’s answered every question clearly and yadda yadda. Accused me of reporting a bunch of his messages (I didn’t), then next thing I see he’s banned.

Ah well. I don’t think there was really anywhere else for this thread to go.