Wiki Model S Delivery Update

[terranx]

Which competitor could do this?

It's purely about onboard battery capacity vs. weight & cost. Anybody can hit 500 miles. I'd rather have fast charging than more batteries.

Lucid does today. Porsche's new battery likely could (but I bet they'll still keep the rated range at under 300 miles while overdelivering). And all of the other manufacturers have more capable batteries in terms of density and charging speed nowadays.

Tesla could stuff in some more batteries and increase the range to 500 miles using their old overly inflated metrics. But they wouldn't be able to support the current required to support Model S / Plaid power with such a battery.

 

[MP3Mike]

Tesla could stuff in some more batteries and increase the range to 500 miles using their old overly inflated metrics. But they wouldn't be able to support the current required to support Model S / Plaid power with such a battery.

That makes no sense. If you stuff in more cells, you increase the amount of current the pack is capable of supporting.

 

[popgodazipa]

Who makes the decision on offering discounts at Tesla...is that Elon? Likely some algorithm. If this were any other dealer burdened with "dead" new inventory, they would pull out all the stops to clear the books. At some point you'd think they have to or let the factories run idle. Someone write a Harvard Business Journal article on this will ya? I'd really like to understand the tactics related to this strategy.

 

[sorka]

Lucid does today. Porsche's new battery likely could (but I bet they'll still keep the rated range at under 300 miles while overdelivering). And all of the other manufacturers have more capable batteries in terms of density and charging speed nowadays.

Tesla could stuff in some more batteries and increase the range to 500 miles using their old overly inflated metrics. But they wouldn't be able to support the current required to support Model S / Plaid power with such a battery.

The larger the battery the more current it supports. The whole idea behind roadster 2.0 having TWO 100 kwh batteries sandwiched together was not to increase the range, but rather double the amperage at the same voltage. Increased range was just going to be a side effect despite it more more inefficient having to lug around the extra weight. Although rather than double amperage, they could have doubled voltage (800 volts) at the same amperage but it would still be double the power.

 

[dn325ci]

Lucid does today. Porsche's new battery likely could (but I bet they'll still keep the rated range at under 300 miles while overdelivering). And all of the other manufacturers have more capable batteries in terms of density and charging speed nowadays.

Tesla could stuff in some more batteries and increase the range to 500 miles using their old overly inflated metrics. But they wouldn't be able to support the current required to support Model S / Plaid power with such a battery.

Your classic Tesla pessimism, reliable as always. Truth is, there is little energy density difference among the current battery chemistries in production. In your Lucid example, the large Lucid Air battery is 118kWh (reported to be both gross and usable, oddly). The Tesla Model S has a 100kWh battery, and Tesla holds back a portion as a reserve. So you're incorrect, again.

That makes no sense. If you stuff in more cells, you increase the amount of current the pack is capable of supporting.

Yes.

 

[n2mb_racing]

That makes no sense. If you stuff in more cells, you increase the amount of current the pack is capable of supporting.

Depends on the chemistry. You can have high capacity or high power, but not both.

 

[ScarletKnight]

MYLR order update
Another data point for those waiting:

Ordered MSLR ultra red/19"/cream/steering wheel on February 5, 2024.
Received my VIN today, new estimated delivery March 7-14.
VIN confirms 2024 model year.

MYLR order update
Another data point for those waiting:

Ordered MSLR ultra red/19"/cream/steering wheel on February 5, 2024.
Received my VIN today, new estimated delivery March 7-14.
VIN confirms 2024 model year.

I have the same exact order, but I ordered on December 27. My delivery date is currently sitting at 2/22–3/10 and the front date has changed every day this week but not the March 10 date - No Vin.

 

[terranx]

That makes no sense. If you stuff in more cells, you increase the amount of current the pack is capable of supporting.

Not necessarily. You need to be able to manage the thermals too, which packing in more cells would make more difficult. This is a big reason why the current S/X packs are *smaller* than the old 100Ds

The Tesla Model S has a 100kWh battery, and Tesla holds back a portion as a reserve

Current Model S is 97kWh, with 2-3 in reserve. The 100D had a 102.5 kWh battery

Truth is, there is little energy density difference among the current battery chemistries in production.

Even within Tesla's range, there's significant variation in density. Currently S/X have the best, and the 4680 cars have the worst.

 

[mistaDubZ]

MYLR order update
Another data point for those waiting:

Ordered MSLR ultra red/19"/cream/steering wheel on February 5, 2024.
Received my VIN today, new estimated delivery March 7-14.
VIN confirms 2024 model year.

Wow that’s amazing. Hopefully they don’t change the date

 

[sorka]

Depends on the chemistry. You can have high capacity or high power, but not both.

No, but keeping everything the same i.e. the exact same cells, adding more cells allows for more power weather that's more cells in parallel for more current or more in series for more voltage.

 

[n2mb_racing]

No, but keeping everything the same i.e. the exact same cells, adding more cells allows for more power weather that's more cells in parallel for more current or more in series for more voltage.

Yes

 

[mistaDubZ]

Does anyone know if MSLR available via inventory are 2023 models ? I’m assuming they are if they can’t sell the 24s yet due to epa issue.

 

[terranx]

Does anyone know if MSLR available via inventory are 2023 models ? I’m assuming they are if they can’t sell the 24s yet due to epa issue.

If it shows the top speed as 130, it's a 2024. They're listing them on the site, but if you actually try to buy one, you won't be able to

 

[rockytop23]

I stopped by the Nashville store today and found my vehicle sitting on the lot (see profile picture), along w/ several other MSLR's and MSP's that were not there last week. They told me there is a hold on both the MSLR's and the MSP's and do not have any other information. One of the Stealth Grey MSP's w/ 21 inch wheels did have an EPA window sticker with manufacture date of 2/24. The SC said they expect to receive a message one morning indicating that the issue has been resolved with instruction to schedule all unscheduled deliveries ASAP. My delivery is scheduled for Feb 28 and they hope to get the all clear before then. My vehicle is very dirty from being transported so I couldn't do an inspection for scratches or paint issues. The panel gaps seemed fine to me and I didn't notice any other external blemishes. The OEM tires are Continental ProContact RX Grand Touring All Season.

 

[dn325ci]

Even within Tesla's range, there's significant variation in density. Currently S/X have the best, and the 4680 cars have the worst.

What is the variation in energy density?

 

[terranx]

What is the variation in energy density?

about 15-20% IIRC

 

[mistaDubZ]

If it shows the top speed as 130, it's a 2024. They're listing them on the site, but if you actually try to buy one, you won't be able to

Thank you for the response. One just popped up as available for immediate pick up with the exact specs/model I built but it’s about 3 hours away from me. Sounds like I’m better off just waiting for mine to get delivered by me lol

 

[dn325ci]

about 15-20% IIRC

I think you're probably trying to refer to a volumetric measurement, but I'm not sure. The energy densities are the same for the NCA nickel cobalt aluminum cars, and generally

A range is given as you can drive the density result up or down mostly by cobalt changes, though there is some cost with it. This is the same, BTW for your example Lucid Air, also using NCA they brought over from Tesla but in the 21700 cylinder form factor factor rather than the S/X's 18650 cylinder. Incidentally the 21700 is the same form factor the Model 3/Y use. Lucid does NOT have more advanced battery technology. All their work came from Tesla. I do, however, believe Lucid advanced the ball on motor technology with the Sapphire, to give credit where it's due.

And @MP3Mike was correct. A larger battery does NOT mean you have to lower amperage. You may want to, for some engineering purpose, but other engineering requirements you want to increase the amperage. Go back to Lucid if you want proof - the Sapphire model has the 22 module battery that is actually 6kWh larger. They raised current draw at the same time.

 

[terranx]

I think you're probably trying to refer to a volumetric measuremen

mass

And @MP3Mike was correct. A larger battery does NOT mean you have to lower amperage. You may want to, for some engineering purpose, but other engineering requirements you want to increase the amperage. Go back to Lucid if you want proof - the Sapphire model has the 22 module battery that is actually 6kWh larger. They raised current draw at the same time.

But you need to have the space for a cooling system to dissipate the heat. The S is maxed out from that standpoint. They could stuff more cells in, but they'd have to reduce power.

It's also a big reason why the 4680s are turds. They just don't have have the surface area for an effective cooling system.

 

[dn325ci]

mass


But you need to have the space for a cooling system to dissipate the heat. The S is maxed out from that standpoint. They could stuff more cells in, but they'd have to reduce power.

It's also a big reason why the 4680s are turds. They just don't have have the surface area for an effective cooling system.

The energy densities I gave you are by mass, units of wh/kg. If you're trying to talk about 18650 vs 21700 vs 4680, that's volumetric not mass.

There are many things that can be done on cooling systems. It is not purely a function of the number of cells. Putting more battery capacity in does not mean you have to reduce power. As a student of Lucid, you should have noticed with the sapphire.