Model S Delivery Issues and Communication Concerns

[Sparrow]

If they have already hit the mid 800s Signature cars to make efficient batching, it would seem as Tesla proceeds along with the remaining Signature cars it will get harder and harder to batch unless they start producing R and general Production cars simultaneously to fill out the batches.

 

[ElSupreme]

If that ends up being the case, it would be another violation of long ago posted TeslaMotors.com facts:

Model S Facts | Tesla Motors

Do I think they care? No. I think they'll just change the website and try to get away with it.

Wow. They have delivered about 100 cars so far. And now we are assuming they will ship production cars before they finish the Signatures? Come on. Let's wait until we get close. Sure there may be a couple signatures that get delivery delayed, for whatever reason at the end of the line. but I imagine that those people get contacted and told about the situation.

Technically, they've already violated it with Founders vehicles anyway.

How so? I would assume that those vehicles are also 'signatures' as they came in Signature Red, and had white leather. Just because something is 'Founders' doesn't mean they are not also 'Signature'.

EDIT: And before I get blasted about the current 'lack of communication' Tesla is dealing with ~1000 people. All clammoring for their car they have waited a long time for. Dealing with a couple of people at the end of the signature line is possible. Hand holding ~1000 people whenever their car moves ahead 1 station in the production line is not possible.

 

[Jkam]

Seems reasonable to me. Perhaps if it wasn't conveyed to him when he placed his order, it was assumed (correctly or incorrectly) that he'd just sort of know that as a matter of logic? Generally when people live in unique places, in the boondocks, need to have provisions flown in to their location and such, they quickly realize that they have to wait longer. That that's the price they pay for living where they do.

Yes I'm in Hawaii. Yes I understand there are logistical and timing problems living in such a remote place and I'm willing to factor them in. However, I know for a fact that it only takes 7-10 days to send a car by boat from the West Coast to Hawaii. I would imagine that 7-10 days is about the same time it would take to get a car from the Bay Area to Portland, Maine (there is a report that a car is scheduled for delivery in Maine in mid October). Other than shipping one car by boat and another presumably by truck, there are a lot of similar issues to delivering a car to Hawaii and to Maine (i.e. flying a Tesla delivery specialist in, arranging for prep, local registration and compliance...). If Tesla can do it for Maine, I don't see the problem doing it for Hawaii. Plus Tesla has already delivered cars to Hawaii before. There are a bunch of Roadsters frolicking around town and supposedly one other Model S (not verified) already.

Tesla says my car will be ready to go in early October. The reason for the delay I'm told is Tesla is anticipating opening a service center in Hawaii later this year and wants to wait until the service center is open before they deliver my car. They don't have any details about when exactly or where exactly, which is why the Tesla rep gave me a vague "sometime in November" estimate (which also means there is a possibility it could drag on to December or even later). So the car is going to sit around from early October until they work out the details for the new service center. It wouldn't bother me as much if they actually had more details on the service center...if they could show me some kind of evidence that the opening of the service center is imminent. To date they have not.

I did make it clear to the delivery specialist that it would be unacceptable to me for my car to be delivered after any general production cars. I also let him know that Tesla has delivered cars to Hawaii before so I don't see why my car has to wait for the service center to be open. In Tesla's defense, the delivery specialist was pleasant, said he would talk to his superior about my situation and would get back to me. I haven't heard from Tesla in a few days.

 

[brianman]

Wow. They have delivered about 100 cars so far. [1]And now we are assuming they will ship production cars before they finish the Signatures? Come on. Let's wait until we get close. Sure there may be a couple signatures that get delivery delayed, for whatever reason at the end of the line. but I imagine that those people get contacted and told about the situation.

[2] How so? I would assume that those vehicles are also 'signatures' as they came in Signature Red, and had white leather. Just because something is 'Founders' doesn't mean they are not also 'Signature'.

EDIT: And before I get blasted about the current 'lack of communication' Tesla is dealing with ~1000 people. All clammoring for their car they have waited a long time for. Dealing with a couple of people at the end of the signature line is possible. Hand holding ~1000 people whenever their car moves ahead 1 station in the production line is not possible.

[1] I didn't assume anything. I was speaking to the hypothetical that I quoted.
[2] "Just because something is 'Founders' doesn't mean they are not also 'Signature'." Yes it does. Not only do they have details different (the Founders text instead of the Signature text), they have a different VIN sequence, and -- at least as we understand it so far -- they aren't stopping at 1159 (1200 - 41) vehicles with the Signature script on them. Either F is a subclass of Signature (in which case it seems that are making 1241 Signatures) or it isn't (and Signatures are the second batch of customer vehicles). It can't be both.

I'm not super upset over [2], but both are simply examples ([1] hypothetical) of unnecessary trust and integrity erosion on Tesla's part. I expected better from Tesla; perhaps I read too much into Roadster owner loyalty.

 

[ElSupreme]

[1] I didn't assume anything. I was speaking to the hypothetical that I quoted.
[2] "Just because something is 'Founders' doesn't mean they are not also 'Signature'." Yes it does. Not only do they have details different (the Founders text instead of the Signature text), they have a different VIN sequence, and -- at least as we understand it so far -- they aren't stopping at 1159 (1200 - 41) vehicles with the Signature script on them. Either F is a subclass of Signature (in which case it seems that are making 1241 Signatures) or it isn't (and Signatures are the second batch of customer vehicles). It can't be both.

I'm not super upset over [2], but both are simply examples ([1] hypothetical) of unnecessary trust and integrity erosion on Tesla's part. I expected better from Tesla; perhaps I read too much into Roadster owner loyalty.

So you are upset about a "hypothetical" and something we don't know, as we haven't seen anything close to Sig 1000 even, and you aren't "super upset over" it either.

It's hard to expect better out of Tesla when they haven't done, or indicated that they would do, either thing you are upset about. You are getting upset about what you think Tesla will do.

 

[Zzzz...]

[1] I didn't assume anything. I was speaking to the hypothetical that I quoted.
[2] "Just because something is 'Founders' doesn't mean they are not also 'Signature'." Yes it does. Not only do they have details different (the Founders text instead of the Signature text), they have a different VIN sequence, and -- at least as we understand it so far -- they aren't stopping at 1159 (1200 - 41) vehicles with the Signature script on them. Either F is a subclass of Signature (in which case it seems that are making 1241 Signatures) or it isn't (and Signatures are the second batch of customer vehicles). It can't be both.

I'm not super upset over [2], but both are simply examples ([1] hypothetical) of unnecessary trust and integrity erosion on Tesla's part. I expected better from Tesla; perhaps I read too much into Roadster owner loyalty.

Not all sedans in the world are Tesla Motors Model S. But all Model S are sedans. Not all Model S in the world are Signature. But all Signatures are Model S. Not all Signatures are Signatures Special . But all Signatures Special are Signatures. Not all Special Signatures are Founders. But all Founders are Special Signatures:wink:

IMHO.

 

[brianman]

So you are upset about a "hypothetical" and something we don't know, as we haven't seen anything close to Sig 1000 even, and you aren't "super upset over" it either.

It's hard to expect better out of Tesla when they haven't done either thing you are upset about. You are getting upset about what you think Tesla will do.

I think you misread. I'm not concerned about [2] the Founders contradicting the "first 1200" statement. I would be concerned about [1] which would remove the primary remaining value of the Signature premium.

The phrase "haven't done" is an overstatement. They've already delivered Founders, so they've likely violated "only 1200 N.A. Sigs" or "Sigs come first". Unless of course, they only deliver 1159 "non-Founders Signatures" to North America.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Yes I'm in Hawaii. Yes I understand there are logistical and timing problems living in such a remote place and I'm willing to factor them in. However, I know for a fact that it only takes 7-10 days to send a car by boat from the West Coast to Hawaii. I would imagine that 7-10 days is about the same time it would take to get a car from the Bay Area to Portland, Maine (there is a report that a car is scheduled for delivery in Maine in mid October). Other than shipping one car by boat and another presumably by truck, there are a lot of similar issues to delivering a car to Hawaii and to Maine (i.e. flying a Tesla delivery specialist in, arranging for prep, local registration and compliance...). If Tesla can do it for Maine, I don't see the problem doing it for Hawaii. Plus Tesla has already delivered cars to Hawaii before. There are a bunch of Roadsters frolicking around town and supposedly one other Model S (not verified) already.

Tesla says my car will be ready to go in early October. The reason for the delay I'm told is Tesla is anticipating opening a service center in Hawaii later this year and wants to wait until the service center is open before they deliver my car. They don't have any details about when exactly or where exactly, which is why the Tesla rep gave me a vague "sometime in November" estimate (which also means there is a possibility it could drag on to December or even later). So the car is going to sit around from early October until they work out the details for the new service center. It wouldn't bother me as much if they actually had more details on the service center...if they could show me some kind of evidence that the opening of the service center is imminent. To date they have not.

I did make it clear to the delivery specialist that it would be unacceptable to me for my car to be delivered after any general production cars. I also let him know that Tesla has delivered cars to Hawaii before so I don't see why my car has to wait for the service center to be open. In Tesla's defense, the delivery specialist was pleasant, said he would talk to his superior about my situation and would get back to me. I haven't heard from Tesla in a few days.

Matsen runs ships twice a week from Oakland to Hawaii, and they handle automobiles and all kinds of other specialty loads. I once had to arrange emergency shipment for a multi-ton part for a printing press to Hawaii, and it took us 9 days from the time of the initial request to delivery on site (originating in Salinas, CA). There are other shippers as well, and there is the issue of matching up the port of origin with the proper island, but it obviously wouldn't result in a month long delay. Hawaii is not the moon.

However, there obviously IS additional logistical issues involved for Tesla, both in shipping and with delivery (i.e. a delivery specialist will need to devote two full work days for a single car). Given that the car is going to be done in early October, it would seem that Jkam needs to shake the tree a bit. Maybe it'll work, maybe it wont. Doesn't hurt to try.

 

[ElSupreme]

I think you misread. I'm not concerned about [2] the Founders contradicting the "first 1200" statement. I would be concerned about [1] which would remove the primary remaining value of the Signature premium.

The phrase "haven't done" is an overstatement. They've already delivered Founders, so they've likely violated "only 1200 N.A. Sigs" or "Sigs come first". Unless of course, they only deliver 1159 "non-Founders Signatures" to North America.

They can't violate the "deliver only 1200 Sigs" until they deliver the 1201st Sig. Airlines overbook all the time, and somehow they figure it out. We don't even know if Tesla is overbooked. They very well could have already accounted for Founders cars in the Signature total, seems like an easy thing to do. I actually assumed they were part of the signature total. We DON'T KNOW! Right now I see no reason not to believe Tesla.

And [1] that you keep bringing up is a complete fabrication. You said yourself it is a hypothetical scenario. It is non-sense to get worked up over something that there is no indication that will happen.

 

[brianman]

And [1] that you keep bringing up is a complete fabrication. You said yourself it is a hypothetical scenario. It is non-sense to get worked up over something that there is no indication that will happen.

Regarding "no indication"... Actually there's some evidence it might happen.

Firstly, we've seen VIN* numbers over 1200, and still don't know what "P" means in the 12th digit for those vehicles. My current guess is that they are marketing vehicles that will be made available for sale after the reservation list is within a month or two of caught up. Yes, that's a guess; but I don't have a better guess at the moment so it's all I have to work with. I doubt they plan to crush the vehicles. And clearly those vehicles have been produced before most of the Signature vehicles, which - granted - isn't the same as delivered.

Secondly, they've shown that some SSLs with be delivered after S802 (or whichever number it was) which is quite surprising.

* Yes, I'm taking Elon's "watch the VINs" comment seriously.

 

[Krugerrand]

Tesla says my car will be ready to go in early October. The reason for the delay I'm told is Tesla is anticipating opening a service center in Hawaii later this year and wants to wait until the service center is open before they deliver my car. They don't have any details about when exactly or where exactly, which is why the Tesla rep gave me a vague "sometime in November" estimate (which also means there is a possibility it could drag on to December or even later). So the car is going to sit around from early October until they work out the details for the new service center. It wouldn't bother me as much if they actually had more details on the service center...if they could show me some kind of evidence that the opening of the service center is imminent. To date they have not.

I would have asked why delivery of my car is dependant on/related to the opening of the service center. Offhand, my guess is maybe that they're trying to batch a shipment to Hawaii...the people, the supplies and particulars for the service center, your car, your delivery specialist (who's perhaps intending to stay in Hawaii to run the service center)...to save money. That would be a logical thing to do.

But it is perfectly within your right to ask for more specifics, even requesting to speak to the person in charge of opening that service center and getting your questions answered to your satisfaction. It also is within your right to insist (since you're paying a delivery charge anyway, right?) to have them forego their intended plans and ship your car when it is complete if it's that important to you to get it by a certain time.

I haven't heard from Tesla in a few days.

You'll probably need to call them back after a reasonable length of time (a week? two weeks?) and talk again with that same specialist and ask what his superior came up with. And so on...

 

[KBF]

Maybe it's too complicated for you, but if shipping to Hawaii is the reason for the delay maybe you could pick it up at the factory and the specialist could do his spiel for you there. Of course, this would likely cost you a lot more money... And travel time. But they did say we could get it delivered pretty much anywhere.

 

[Jkam]

Thankfully the Tesla rep got back in touch with me today. He said the car will be ready in early October and they will ship it when ready. He gave me a mid-late October time frame, but no specific dates. I guess that's an indication that I won't have to wait until the service center is open to get my car. I see there are reports that cars in my reservation # range are being delivered any where from late September to mid October, so factoring the logistics to get a car to Hawaii I'd say mid October seems fair. I'm glad Tesla decided to do this because early delivery is about the only benefit I can see anymore of being a Sig reservation holder.

Until they give me final dates, I'm not counting this as a done deal. Things could change.

 

[KBF]

Thankfully the Tesla rep got back in touch with me today. He said the car will be ready in early October and they will ship it when ready. He gave me a mid-late October time frame, but no specific dates. I guess that's an indication that I won't have to wait until the service center is open to get my car. I see there are reports that cars in my reservation # range are being delivered any where from late September to mid October, so factoring the logistics to get a car to Hawaii I'd say mid October seems fair. I'm glad Tesla decided to do this because early delivery is about the only benefit I can see anymore of being a Sig reservation holder.

Until they give me final dates, I'm not counting this as a done deal. Things could change.

That sounds good, I'm glad for you. I'm in a similar situation, in that even though I'm an EARLY reservation, because of my location the Sig premium isn't quite as compelling due to the fact that people who have reserved 3 years after me will receive theirs before me. It was a hard decision to stay Signature and I'm hoping that it will be worth it to me.

 

[StephRob]

It seems to me that Tesla did a disservice to itself by even assigning reservation numbers to begin with. What was the point of everyone getting hung up on what number they were assigned if the numbers did not represent the order in which they would get the car?

 

[ckessel]

It seems to me that Tesla did a disservice to itself by even assigning reservation numbers to begin with. What was the point of everyone getting hung up on what number they were assigned if the numbers did not represent the order in which they would get the car?

I'm sure Tesla intended to deliver in sequence, but that met the realities of batching on a large scale assembly line.

 

[NigelM]

It seems to me that Tesla did a disservice to itself by even assigning reservation numbers to begin with. What was the point of everyone getting hung up on what number they were assigned if the numbers did not represent the order in which they would get the car?

The numbering system has at least made sure there is a more or less orderly flow where those who invested earliest (either with investments, deposits or Roadster purchases) are near the front of the delivery queue.

 

[Charged_Up]

I'm sure Tesla intended to deliver in sequence, but that met the realities of batching on a large scale assembly line.

The disservice was not explaining to people how they intended to do it. It's embarrassing and frustrating that there has been almost no willingness to discuss the issue to date. It's not a deal breaker but a goodwill eliminator instead - when people are most excited shortly before delivery, it's a bitter pill when it appears as though there is total confusion as to delivery order.

 

[bonnie]

The disservice was not explaining to people how they intended to do it. It's embarrassing and frustrating that there has been almost no willingness to discuss the issue to date. It's not a deal breaker but a goodwill eliminator instead - when people are most excited shortly before delivery, it's a bitter pill when it appears as though there is total confusion as to delivery order.

It took me a minute to even figure out what the issue was. I went back to my reservation information and found this explanation (note, it says nothing about VIN or delivery order):

 

[Krugerrand]

The disservice was not explaining to people how they intended to do it. It's embarrassing and frustrating that there has been almost no willingness to discuss the issue to date. It's not a deal breaker but a goodwill eliminator instead - when people are most excited shortly before delivery, it's a bitter pill when it appears as though there is total confusion as to delivery order.

This kind of comment bothers me to no end for a lot of reasons. You make it sound as if they are intentionally trying to play, fool, annoy and generally upset their reservationists. Do you think that's their intent? Really? That somebody is sitting at a desk purposely saying..."Ramone, today we are going to put #'s 56, 87 and 21 on the back burner for three months and instead I want you to build #'s 135, 178 and 800 because that'll make some people really mad and some people really happy."

Maybe they had intended on doing it one way, only to find out it wasn't possible to do it that way. Maybe lots of things, but it's just like people to think the worst and that it's intentionally done to upset them specifically.

There has to be a number system for logistics. Just for starters they can't be yelling down the line..."Where's the build book for Charged Up?" "Who knows what interior Samuel Bickers is getting in his car?" "Didn't Delores Smith want a pano roof?"

Sometimes you get in a line and the guy behind you gets served first. Why? Because maybe there's a table for two available, but not one for the four in your party. Because maybe the supplier of the interior material you want in your car messed up and didn't send enough, but there's plenty of material for the guy's car who's behind you in line. I can think of a million different possibilites and none of them are to intentionally make the customer mad.

- - - Updated - - -

It took me a minute to even figure out what the issue was. I went back to my reservation information and found this explanation (note, it says nothing about VIN or delivery order):

View attachment 9813

And neither suggest that that's the sequence you'll 'receive' your car. People seem to have 'assumed' that's what it meant, but it's clearly states otherwise.