Model S Delivery Issues and Communication Concerns

[AnOutsider]

And did you point out to him that the queue number, by Tesla's earlier communications, meant that was the order that people would be contacted to configure their car (and not the VIN order)? Hopefully.

An easy mistake to make, but my reservation papers were clear when I actually went back and read them.

You know, not to stir this up any further, but really, what difference does the order of configuration make if deliveries can be in almost any order? If anything, you lock in with less information and, if you live in an obscure area, your Sig #100 can be on the same truck with p #1000. Extreme example, I know, but the gist of it should be clear. The only reason to really care about order of reservation is order of delivery. Surely, before the paperwork came, everyone thought the reservation number roughly equated to the build order for their vehicle?

 

[Arnold Panz]

I contacted another early Sig reservation holder (SSL) that I know and he doesn't know when his car will be delivered. He doesn't follow this board or the Tesla forum. I told him about how Tesla isn't necessarily delivering the cars in reservation order and there are some wide swings (I see Sig #915 has a delivery window).

When he found out that cars in the 800-900 range were getting contacted, he was pretty upset. He didn't believe that Tesla would deliver in an order different than the reservation order. He was disturbed by the lack of respect by Tesla to such a loyal customer. The conversation went further, but you can get the gist of it. Tesla is really pissing people off by not communicating to the customers who put down $40k to an iffy company at the time. This guy is as pro-Tesla as can be, and now he is disillusioned.

Jkam, I feel your friend's pain, and have argued repeatedly that there should have been more communication on this issue. That said, just because your friend hasn't heard yet from Tesla on the delivery window doesn't mean he's getting his car after those that have heard. It seems like they wait until they have a truckload to go somewhere and then set the two week window, and it can be less than a month's notices especially for SSLs. I'm not saying it will happen, but it could be that he gets his car within the next couple of weeks.

I really wish GeorgeB would do a blog post on this already so this sort of thing could be addressed in a logical way. The continued lack of official word from Tesla at this point is really counterproductive.

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You know, not to stir this up any further, but really, what difference does the order of configuration make if deliveries can be in almost any order? If anything, you lock in with less information and, if you live in an obscure area, your Sig #100 can be on the same truck with p #1000. Extreme example, I know, but the gist of it should be clear. The only reason to really care about order of reservation is order of delivery. Surely, before the paperwork came, everyone thought the reservation number roughly equated to the build order for their vehicle?

And to stir the pot a little more, of they were going to jumble deliveries so much, why restrict Sigs to 4 exterior colors and virtually no options? The whole point seemed to be to avoid wide batching that would put people well out of order (and make things simpler on the factory as they ramped up production). I'd understand a lot more as an R or P getting out of order with 10 color choices and tons of different options/configurations, but why with Sigs?

 

[bonnie]

Surely the fact that Tesla says what the number means should have some bearing on this. When I received the email with my reservation number, it was defined there. So we're talking 2 or 3 days from deposit being put down. Not months later.

Did you assume the same for (as an example) if Sig 32 and 33 are asked to configure on the same day, Sig 32 responds immediately and Sig 33 waits 30 days? I know we've hashed and rehashed this one.

And all I can say is that MY assumption was those cars would not be delivered in order. I also assumed that configurations and delivery locations would impact order (I've never done the manufacturing floor scheduling, but sat in plenty of meetings where we've debated the best way to roll things out.) I understand that others would have other assumptions. I'm only speaking to MY assumptions.

And I assume the same thing for the Model X.

Disclaimer: Again (because I assume that someone will want to tell me why I'm wrong), everything stated in this post is my opinion. Nothing in this post is meant to imply my opinion should be your opinion. Because your opinion is your opinion. Nor should anything in this post should be construed to indicate that I think that you shouldn't have an opinion.

 

[AnOutsider]

Hmm, it's been years, so I deduced to look for my confirmation email as well. Here's what it said about the number:

Your sequence number may not be identical to your vehicle identification number, or VIN. These numbers are designed to keep you apprised of your position, but the actual VIN will not be set until time of production.

So, nothing definitive, though it certainly implies a position in line. Also found an old email discussing sigs:

Thanks for the quick response, as I mentioned the Model S Signature Series will be released first and this will be accompanied by a unique set of the features.

I think the only features we ended up with is the paint and white interior.

 

[Arnold Panz]

I think the only features we ended up with is the paint and white interior.

And a couple of faint "Signature" etches in the chrome on the back and side blinkers.

 

[bonnie]

Good find, AO. Clearly the wording sharpened up by the time I made my S reservation (which morphed into an X Sig reservation).

 

[NigelM]

Tesla obviously refined and changed wording over the years (for good or bad, that's not surprising). This is what mine said:

7. Priority

We will establish your reservation sequence position in our sole discretion.

 

[Jkam]

And to stir the pot a little more, of they were going to jumble deliveries so much, why restrict Sigs to 4 exterior colors and virtually no options? The whole point seemed to be to avoid wide batching that would put people well out of order (and make things simpler on the factory as they ramped up production). I'd understand a lot more as an R or P getting out of order with 10 color choices and tons of different options/configurations, but why with Sigs?

+1 Very good point Arnold Panz.

The whole point of limiting the options on the Sigs was to reduce variations in the early building stages. I was upset when I first learned that the only real unique options for Sigs are red exterior/white interior. I reasoned that Tesla didn't offer any compelling unique features because it didn't want to add complexity to the factory line in the early stages (although they still could have added a feature or two for all Sigs where they wouldn't have to vary the factory line). But now that excuse has really gone out the window if they are going to have such wide differentiation between reservation order and delivery order.

Tesla says they care about their customers, but some of the very best customers, early Sig reservations, have had let down after let down after let down from Tesla IMO. For me about the only thing left justifying the $40k deposit and Sig premium is early delivery. So early delivery is important to me. What nags at me most is Tesla's pattern of behavior to disregard the Sig classification, whether justified or not. It just seems like the very customers they should be treating the best, are the ones that are getting screwed the most. It is what it is. I'm at a point where I'm at, so it's too late to back out now and I'm pretty sure in the long run I'm going to be happy with my car. However, if I knew what I know now and could do it over, I certainly would not have put a Sig reservation in. I would have gotten a P reservation.

If there is one general production order delivered before my Sig, I'm really going to be upset.

 

[aviators99]

You people are so silly for assuming that a "sequence number" would describe where the car is, in sequence.

 

[Zapped]

After reading / scanning all the comments today, ( WOW) I can now understand why Henry Ford said "you can have any color you want as long as it's Black"

Without being too critical, I can only imagine the comments if TM actually disclosed their production / delivery strategy.

To be sure they are doing what's best for TM in the long term which means they will still be around to service / support us in the years ahead.

Good discussion though

 

[cinergi]

Having #146 being literally #146 off the line was not an assumption. It was reinforced by many Tesla employees over the years. "Cool! Car #146 off the line!" "Oh! You'll have yours before so-and-so-bigwig" "Really early reservation! Cool! You'll have yours before most anyone else!" etc ....
(I'm speaking about 2 years' worth of conversations I've had with employees. And I have long discussions with a lot of employees (I have no life))

(I'm not outraged, but am disappointed; I agree this could be clarified; I understand why they're doing it, etc. Now, one thing that would be really awful is for non-sigs to start getting their cars before all sigs had theirs. I hope that doesn't happen.)

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

(I'm not outraged, but am disappointed; I agree this could be clarified; I understand why they're doing it, etc. Now, one thing that would be really awful is for non-sigs to start getting their cars before all sigs had theirs. I hope that doesn't happen.)

Unlikely. That'd make for bad press and blood all over these forums

On that note, I'd definitely be upset if P 2,500-something gets their car before I do (60 kWh is probably my only "offense").

Hmm. All this talk of batching has me questioning my standard stereo choice. We only listen to the news and children's music on our stereo so didn't see the value of the $950 but if they're going to batch us based on the stereo that would suck. I'd pay $950 to have my car by Thanksgiving.

Same concern here. But, am scared of touching the MVPA now lest I actually cause a delay by doing that. As Master Oogway puts it in "Kung Fu Panda" - "One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it."

 

[ckessel]

Surely the fact that Tesla says what the number means should have some bearing on this. When I received the email with my reservation number, it was defined there.

Sure, but there's a limit to what people feel is reasonable. Sig 44 shouldn't come after P5800 even if Sig 44 was technically contacted first. The problem is Tesla has crossed the line of what a decent chunk of folks will consider reasonable, folks that have an extra investment (both emotional and financial) due to their original order date.

It gets back to communication. If Tesla explained the purpose of the batching I'm sure no one would say "hold P800's car so I get mine first, even if P800 is done and sitting on the floor". Hardly anyone is going to be that petty. Lacking any communications from Tesla though, it just feels cold and disrepectful.

 

[Jason S]

It doesn't seem possible to me that Tesla could know up front what might be the best way to batch production. Supply issues are usually one of the biggest reasons. So how would they know that when they begin ramping, that supply of the red pin stripe leather on the black performance cars is constrained, or that a large batch of dark performance wheels are exhibiting defects which means they need to re-order them. The bottom line (at least to me) is that Tesla is doing what it can to deliver the cars the fastest it can. Can they do a better job of communicating to everybody whenever an issue arises? Sure, but that doesn't change reality.

There is my theory. I think that's exactly what is going on and we're just getting the results while Tesla tries everything they can to get good parts from their supplier(s). I'm on the no-ETA list too and am contemplating the possibility that some production cars will be delivered before my Sig, all because I decided to go with black performance leather seats. (Could be a related item like alacantra roof lining or w/e)

 

[bonnie]

Sure, but there's a limit to what people feel is reasonable. Sig 44 shouldn't come after P5800 even if Sig 44 was technically contacted first. The problem is Tesla has crossed the line of what a decent chunk of folks will consider reasonable ...

Your wording implies that P5800 is being delivered before Sig 44 . That seems a little disingenuous.

Whats the worst 'out of order' example we know?

 

[Jason S]

Regular Sig 870 (iirc) delivered at a location on the East Coast before SSL 114, just off the top of my head. Hard to top that differential, except with lower SSL numbers.

Within a common configuration I'm not aware of any out of order delivery.

 

[JRP3]

Without being too critical, I can only imagine the comments if TM actually disclosed their production / delivery strategy.

Actually if they said "We are in a tough situation and have to get cars out in batches as they are ready" I think most people would understand.

To be sure they are doing what's best for TM in the long term which means they will still be around to service / support us in the years ahead.

Yes, they are somewhat in "survival" mode at the moment, however I'm pretty sure the bad blood created will guarantee that any attempt in the future for Tesla to get people to buy into a special "signature" model with a large early deposit will fail. At some point Tesla's plan fell apart to some degree, they should man up and admit it. It affects a small number of people directly but the bad press will spread to their friends, probably people who might also be interested in getting a car earlier and willing to pay a premium. Does anyone see a point in a Sig X now?

 

[Zythryn]

To be sure they are doing what's best for TM in the long term which means they will still be around to service / support us in the years ahead.

Actually I think Tesla is doing what's best for its customers as a whole. I would suggest that by batching and delivering some of the cars out of order Tesla is able to deliver more cars to more customers more quickly. While it may disappoint some and seem unfair to some, which it is frankly, it gets more cars out to more customers sooner.

 

[NigelM]

Whats the worst 'out of order' example we know?

Regular Sig 870 (iirc) delivered at a location on the East Coast before SSL 114, just off the top of my head. Hard to top that differential, except with lower SSL numbers.

Not according to the Model-S-Delivery-Update. I think it's not that your recall is wrong but that we're looking at a moving picture as delivery notifications start to flood in.

Just a word on the subject of out of order deliveries: There's lots of things that can cause this, some are behind the scenes in production and some are down to geography and also when you as an individual actually accept delivery. Someone living in Florida with a late Sig reservation number is almost certainly going to receive his/her car after some regular production folk who happen to live in California. The only way to avoid this is to slow down production and make everyone else wait...I suspect that's not an option the majority here would vote for.

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Actually I think Tesla is doing what's best for its customers as a whole. I would suggest that by batching and delivering some of the cars out of order Tesla is able to deliver more cars to more customers more quickly. While it may disappoint some and seem unfair to some, which it is frankly, it gets more cars out to more customers sooner.

I agree with you, up to the "unfair" part. You and I are a good example - for whatever reasons your delivery window is 2 weeks ahead of mine. If you take delivery on the first day of your window but I take mine on the last day (e.g. due to vacation) that puts us a month apart but we're only 3 numbers different. Meanwhile Tesla is producing 100 cars/week and a fair few of those customers live in California (unlike you or I). Just within our joint delivery window(s) there might be anything between 200-400 cars becoming ready for delivery. We couldn't expect everyone else whose car is ready to wait until I have mine.

Just the geography and a one week shipping time could mean that ~100 other cars could be "jumping" ahead of me. IMO that's not unfair that's just a fact of life that Tesla is in CA and I'm in FL.

 

[rogbmw]

I think we need to remember that just because one person has "#H" and someone else has "#H+5" that "#H" will get theirs first. Having had the opportunity to own several limited production cars in the past and present, I can state for a fact that this happens with other manufacturers as well. And, this actually happens with VIN numbers, to where a later VIN in a series is made before a VIN car with an earlier number. Nowhere in writing from TESLA did I read that my car will be produced exactly in sequence with the reservation number. Plus, I too live in Florida, and as Nigel said, this can have a big impact on when my car is delivered. I have a "general" idea when my car "may" be delivered, but do not feel that I can get upset with Tesla that it is not exactly x number of days until I get it.

I feel that I will get my car, when it is done - and my contract is signed - and they notify me it of a delivery date. Anything else is pure speculation from my point.