Model 3 Supercharging Capable Discussion

[diamond.g]

Sounds totally reasonable. It's just as we discussed in this thread. I'm also willing to bet that the unlimited charging price will increase in coordination with this.

Existing owners will be left on unlimited plans, as was promised to them. Tesla doesn't have a way to back out of that.

Yeah I agree, which makes me wonder how else they could reduce the existing congestion issues people in CA complain about (I suppose more stalls and sites is a start). I would be really interested in seeing if folks will use the network enough to allow that source of income to do expansion. Seems like it may just cover electricity costs...

 

[Pando]

Different Supercharger design will help also. Make it appear more as a refueling station and not as a parking space. ICE cars probably won't dare to venture into this area either.

Next step - cover the entire area with solar panels and install battery banks.

 

[ohmman]

Yeah I agree, which makes me wonder how else they could reduce the existing congestion issues people in CA complain about (I suppose more stalls and sites is a start). I would be really interested in seeing if folks will use the network enough to allow that source of income to do expansion. Seems like it may just cover electricity costs...

Well, the leak included something called "idle fees," remember. That can still apply to cars with free supercharging for life. Getting people to move when charged is going to be really helpful. As is building out new charging locations.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Well, the leak included something called "idle fees," remember. That can still apply to cars with free supercharging for life. Getting people to move when charged is going to be really helpful. As is building out new charging locations.

That's real easy to enforce too. If you're a habitual abuser, Tesla just changes the "Supercharging enabled" flag to "No" on your vehicle until you pay up.

 

[Red Sage]

... and Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, France...
But yes, mostly the most popular locations on busy days and/or on/in vacation time.

OK, fine. And possibly from those multiple locations in Europe that were initially set up with only two Supercharger spaces. Yet again, Tesla Motors is unlikely to leave the Supercharger network in a static state, waiting until an all encompassing Apocalyptic Supercharger Armageddon takes place either regionally, territorially, or worldwide. Existing locations will be expanded, new locations will be built, there is no need to purposely exclude anyone just to reduce the outside possibility of so-called 'abuse' or rampant overcrowding during peak periods, or complete gridlock within a 'fundamentally flawed' system.

 

[stopcrazypp]

You are correct. Now imagine if Tesla "unbakes" the price of SC? Now they are making NOTHING on the person that doesn't buy it as an option or pay-per-use ( if they offer it).

My suggestion - keep the baked in price and continue to let the "john-q-publics" in the forum / and the world think its free to use.

I already pointed out how this is incorrect, but I guess I wasn't clear about it. If Tesla unbakes the price of the SC, they still will be subsidizing infrastructural costs via a split of advertising and COGs, according to their SEC filings. So they are still going to be making something on a Tesla owner related to the supercharger network, regardless of assigning ongoing costs to pay-per-use. It is definitely not an "all or nothing" approach as you suggest (part of the ongoing costs can also still be taken out of the vehicle sale even with pay-per-use).

What pay-per-use allows is for at least part of their supercharger income to be coupled with actual usage. This makes it less risky for Tesla in case they fail to properly predict demand (which I think they already failed with their "free long distance forever" offer; edit: a small subtlety is they promised "free" not "unlimited").

 

[dsvick]

Yeah pretty much the only way to reduce the congestion seen with existing Model S & X owners now. Though if they give them "unlimited credits" to maintain the Free Supercharging for Life claim I am not sure how it would improve anything.

They won't give them unlimited credits, the people that already have the free for life plan will just remain on it. As far as the SC network is concerned they just query the car to make sure it is authorized, while with the credits I assume the car will say "Yes, I'm autorized" then the car itself will stop the charging process when the credits are all used.

So, no, that won't alleviate any congestion issues. The only thing they can do fix it is to build out more SC locations and add more stalls at the existing ones. The idle fee may also help, but only for those cases where someone is actually idling, if there are simply a lot of people trying to use a location that won't help.

 

[mhan00]

They won't give them unlimited credits, the people that already have the free for life plan will just remain on it. As far as the SC network is concerned they just query the car to make sure it is authorized, while with the credits I assume the car will say "Yes, I'm autorized" then the car itself will stop the charging process when the credits are all used.

So, no, that won't alleviate any congestion issues. The only thing they can do fix it is to build out more SC locations and add more stalls at the existing ones. The idle fee may also help, but only for those cases where someone is actually idling, if there are simply a lot of people trying to use a location that won't help.

Well, Tesla can issue unlimited credits to current owners so they'll still have free super charging. As a bonus, they could force them to enter a credit card so their cars could be charged for idling in a super charger spot.

 

[mhan00]

I think he is saying that valets are making sure that cars get moved. Who cares who moves them?

Geesshh people.

There's a big difference between a valet who has your car keys and can move your car himself, and a guy who is there who can only ask you to move your car with no ability to move it himself. One ensures smooth line progression by himself, the other is still depending on the goodwill of the owner with a more visible sense of oversight.

 

[MP3Mike]

Different Supercharger design will help also. Make it appear more as a refueling station and not as a parking space. ICE cars probably won't dare to venture into this area either.

Next step - cover the entire area with solar panels and install battery banks.

Where is the location and how many charging stalls are there?

 

[mhan00]

Norway for that charger, and it has 20 stalls, iirc. Only issue trying to do that here is that Tesla would need permission from parking lot owners to do that. Tesla doesn't have carte Blanche to do whatever they want at most (all?) of their super chargers here in the states.

 

[Pando]

Where is the location and how many charging stalls are there?

Looks like it's in Nebbenes, Norway. Here it is earlier under construction.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I already pointed out how this is incorrect, but I guess I wasn't clear about it. If Tesla unbakes the price of the SC, they still will be subsidizing infrastructural costs via a split of advertising and COGs, according to their SEC filings. So they are still going to be making something on a Tesla owner related to the supercharger network, regardless of assigning ongoing costs to pay-per-use. It is definitely not an "all or nothing" approach as you suggest (part of the ongoing costs can also still be taken out of the vehicle sale even with pay-per-use).

What pay-per-use allows is for at least part of their supercharger income to be coupled with actual usage. This makes it less risky for Tesla in case they fail to properly predict demand (which I think they already failed with their "free long distance forever" offer; edit: a small subtlety is they promised "free" not "unlimited").

I don't agree with what you pointed out. Must we all agree with you?

ELON said that the price of SC was baked into the price of the car. NOW - who would you trust? a person in a forum or the words from the CEO?

You can even purchase SC'ing if you want. "If you are unbaked...you can purchase it". Another quote from ELON.

Tesla — Enable Supercharging

50000 cars with $2500 baked in - That's 125 million. I highly doubt they would have received $125 million on pay-per-use to this point.

 

[Garlan Garner]

There's a big difference between a valet who has your car keys and can move your car himself, and a guy who is there who can only ask you to move your car with no ability to move it himself. One ensures smooth line progression by himself, the other is still depending on the goodwill of the owner with a more visible sense of oversight.

aaahhhh really?

Its the intent of the message you need to accept. Why can't you.

Mic Drop.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I already pointed out how this is incorrect, but I guess I wasn't clear about it. If Tesla unbakes the price of the SC, they still will be subsidizing infrastructural costs via a split of advertising and COGs, according to their SEC filings. So they are still going to be making something on a Tesla owner related to the supercharger network, regardless of assigning ongoing costs to pay-per-use. It is definitely not an "all or nothing" approach as you suggest (part of the ongoing costs can also still be taken out of the vehicle sale even with pay-per-use).

What pay-per-use allows is for at least part of their supercharger income to be coupled with actual usage. This makes it less risky for Tesla in case they fail to properly predict demand (which I think they already failed with their "free long distance forever" offer; edit: a small subtlety is they promised "free" not "unlimited").

Wait what?

Tesla to introduce new ‘Supercharger Credit’ system to reduce entry price of Model S & X

This can't be true can it? It doesn't fit your assessment?

 

[ohmman]

I don't agree with what you pointed out. Must we all agree with you?

ELON said that the price of SC was baked into the price of the car. NOW - who would you trust? a person in a forum or the words from the CEO?

You can even purchase SC'ing if you want. "If you are unbaked...you can purchase it". Another quote from ELON.

Tesla — Enable Supercharging

50000 cars with $2500 baked in - That's 125 million. I highly doubt they would have received $125 million on pay-per-use to this point.

GG, you seem to want to shout people down. It's not terribly becoming. @stopcrazypp is a long time member trying to contribute to a logical discussion. It deserves the same type of thoughtful response.

Clearly the price of Supercharging is priced into the cars, or it wouldn't sustainably exist. However, you've been told this many times before, and I'll repeat it again. The $2500 number is for one specific trim level of vehicle, and it reflects a $500 change order. It was $2000 for that car when purchased new. That doesn't mean it was fully decoupled. As @stopcrazypp pointed out to you, the SEC filings show that it is earmarked (partially) as a marketing expense.

Another example of something that's partially decoupled is AutoPilot. Tesla doesn't install the hardware for free in those cars. The hardware exists, and it's priced in. If you want to enable Autopilot, it's currently a $3k package. Do it after delivery, and it's $3500. Does that mean that AutoPilot costs are $3500? Nope.

For everyone's sake, please stop throwing around the $2500 number. $2000 would be more accurate, but only in the sense that it was the price at purchase. It still means nothing about the cost of Supercharging. To get at the cost, you need to review the SEC filings, which is what @stopcrazypp was trying to tell you.

 

[FlatSix911]

The truth ... California is foreshadowing the rest of the nation on SC congestion.

Which are early signs of what other super charger locations will be like once enough cars are on the road. California is having these issues because it is BY FAR Tesla's largest market. If the Model III is as successful as Tesla hopes, those issues will start impacting other areas (and other areas have already been affected, as can be seen in several threads here and on Reddit).
Plus, Tesla has to worry about CA issues because, again, it's by far the largest market for Teslas so far and I'm sure Tesla aspires to have Teslas be as in demand everywhere as they are here. California's issues today

I would love to see free supercharging for all Tesla vehicles for life ... and a chicken in every pot!

I believe @FlatSix911 may have been among those who don't want the Model 3 to be Supercharger compatible at all. If he is, then that would mean pay-per-use across the board for Generation III, and separate chargers for Generation II, 'preferred' Customers... Precisely the sort of class warfare segregation I have been arguing against from the outset of these discussions.
Strangely, very few now admit to feeling that way and now frame PP4U as a path of least resistance for those who are 'stretching' to get Model 3. To which I say [BOLSHEVIK]. More like you want them to stretch all the way over to use someone else's grossly overpriced 'Metrochargers' instead of soiling the ground of your precious Superchargers. (Though I've seen that attitude expressed most at the Tesla Forums rather than here.)

Now the plan is unveiled ..

Yeah pretty much the only way to reduce the congestion seen with existing Model S & X owners now.
Though if they give them "unlimited credits" to maintain the Free Supercharging for Life claim I am not sure how it would improve anything.

Sources familiar with the program have told Electrek that Tesla is about to introduce a new Supercharger Credit program to unbundle the cost of Supercharger access from the vehicle and consequently, lower the entry price of the Model S and X while ensuring that the value of the Supercharger network is better represented by the pricing model. The update could coincide with the release of OS 8 or 8.1.

We weren’t able to confirm the amount of the price reduction, but considering Tesla still offers the option to enable Supercharging access for $2,500 on the original Model S 40/60, which were not offered with included access to the network, it wouldn’t be surprising if the discount will be of about the same amount. Update: another source with knowledge of the new program now says that the price reduction will actually amount to $2,000.

 

[ummgood]

I wonder now how many people will drop their reservation? While we all know they were going to remove supercharging when this is announced I would think it might make people who rethink their decision to go with a Tesla. I am thinking specifically people without charging at home like apartment or condo residents, people planning on doing a lot of long distance commutes, or people who plan on using their car for ride sharing.

I was in line with a young guy that was getting the Model 3 base model so he could use it for Uber/Lyft. He had a civic and figured with the cost of gas he was spending it would pay for the car itself given he was planning on using a supercharger to charge 2 or 3 times a day. I bet this will change his mind. Unless the cost of the credits is significantly less than filling up a 30MPG Civic where he could justify the large payment for a Model 3. For me personally I am happy because I don't plan on long distance travel in my Model 3. I only go long distance in my car maybe once a year. The rest of the time is around town.

Another question this raises for me is what happens to preowned Model S and Model X. Would Tesla potentially take away the lifetime charging aspect of the car when it is sold to another owner? Is it life of car or life of ownership? If I sold a Model S to another party then I would expect them to be able to keep that ability. Now there is nothing to say that Tesla could remove that ability if they resell the car.

 

[Jersey Shore Tom]

I don't know if you guys saw it, but I was communicating yesterday on here with a guy who was saying - There were only a "FEW" people who had/ordered SC in their MS. Now I see that there is an opinion that there are only a few people that "don't" have the SC option.

I'm pretty sure I'm that guy. You don't get it.

My original post was in response to your claim that

I can imagine that there are a whole lot of Tesla MS/X owners who have purchased the SC option that have never ever used it. That's free money for Tesla.

I suppose you did "imagine" what you claimed. Since no Model X owners bought the "SC option" and less than 10% of Model S owners did, my response that

I doubt it. Only a small percentage of Model S owners and ano Model X owners paid separately for Supercharging.

was correct. (except the ano instead of and typo)

I said few people ordered Supercharging. That is true, unless you want to argue that people who got Supercharging as a standard feature with no option to delete it ordered it as an option.

I never said only few people had Supercharging In fact greater than 90% of Model Ss and all Model Xs have it.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I'm pretty sure I'm that guy. You don't get it.

My original post was in response to your claim that



I suppose you did "imagine" what you claimed. Since no Model X owners bought the "SC option" and less than 10% of Model S owners did, my response that



was correct. (except the ano instead of and typo)

I said few people ordered Supercharging. That is true, unless you want to argue that people who got Supercharging as a standard feature with no option to delete it ordered it as an option.

I never said only few people had Supercharging In fact greater than 90% of Model Ss and all Model Xs have it.

What?