I'm not so sure if LEAF will become Infiniti, my bet is that if Mercedes want to partner with Nissan, then there comes Mercedes based, Infinti Q30 EV. Otherwise no Infiniti EV.
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I'm not so sure if LEAF will become Infiniti, my bet is that if Mercedes want to partner with Nissan, then there comes Mercedes based, Infinti Q30 EV. Otherwise no Infiniti EV.
purplewalt
Active Member
Instead of lambasting GM (and Mary), they (and she) should get some kudos for at least trying.
NOBODY else (of the existing manufacturers) has committed time, energy and MONEY necessary to develop a 200 mile range EV ready for market.
Is the Bolt perfect?
Probably not.
Once GM decides to add their own quick charging network (or tag onto Tesla's Supercharging network), it will be some type of long- mileage range competitor to Tesla.
The reality is the Bolt will be in the market and ON THE ROADS this year.
And people will start to see it.
And buy and drive it.
Either way, be it a Model 3 or a Bolt, WE (the consumers) all win.
The Marketplace makes the Competition listen to and respond to what the Consumer wants.
Tesla lit the path, Bolt is the first to hit the road with an affordable 200 mile range vehicle, other manufacturers are beginning to figure out how they will adapt to the Marketplace.
GM does deserve SOME credit here.
The tide is turning, people are slowly waking up to a new reality.
BAM!
276,000 Reservations for Model 3 in three days (and counting) is getting a LOT of attention in Boardrooms and the stock market.
NOBODY else (of the existing manufacturers) has committed time, energy and MONEY necessary to develop a 200 mile range EV ready for market.
Is the Bolt perfect?
Probably not.
Once GM decides to add their own quick charging network (or tag onto Tesla's Supercharging network), it will be some type of long- mileage range competitor to Tesla.
The reality is the Bolt will be in the market and ON THE ROADS this year.
And people will start to see it.
And buy and drive it.
Either way, be it a Model 3 or a Bolt, WE (the consumers) all win.
The Marketplace makes the Competition listen to and respond to what the Consumer wants.
Tesla lit the path, Bolt is the first to hit the road with an affordable 200 mile range vehicle, other manufacturers are beginning to figure out how they will adapt to the Marketplace.
GM does deserve SOME credit here.
The tide is turning, people are slowly waking up to a new reality.
BAM!
276,000 Reservations for Model 3 in three days (and counting) is getting a LOT of attention in Boardrooms and the stock market.
garsh
Re Member
I think Chevy (and Nissan) are taking EVs seriously, but they aren't "all-in" (to borrow a poker term) like Tesla is. They're taking a conservative route. And they're concentrating on producing a cheap, efficient car (and failing at the cheap) instead of concentrating on designing a car that people will lust over. Given their situations, it's not a bad decision. But it certainly makes for a less-compelling vehicle. Hopefully they (and other automakers) will take EV design & production much more seriously when the Model 3 starts selling in record numbers.
I think BMW is going to feel the most pain, as the Model 3 is likely to steal a lot of potential 3-series owners.
I doubt very much that either Chevy or Nissan are going to create an EV to lust over. They can't even create an ICE to lust over. Well... maybe with the exception of the Corvette. Even when GM does produce something really nice - like the Buick Avista - you get the sense that it can't go to production without being ground through the bland-o-tron.
Buick Avista Concept: A Bold Stroke from a Once-Stodgy Brand - Auto Shows
Agree that they deserve some credits.
Too bad that (to me) it looks they are already spending them big time with a negative media campaign (will Tesla be able to deliver? We will beat Tesla because we will be earlier on the market etc.... )
I'd like to see them using the credits they got in a positive campaign (okay, Ford with the slogan "as good as a Toyota" would be too much to ask probably
) But... what about: A Tesla is great because.... and the Bolt is great too because.... So happy that we can finally choose, and whatever you choose, the ride will be better than in any ICE AND we will have a better world as a bonus!I'd really love to see such an article!
Of course (being a big fan) I favor Tesla, but I am confident that the Bolt can be sold in good numbers too because people have different tastes...
artsci
Sponsor
My problem with GM is that they are deliberating delaying the move to sustainable transportation. I think the Bolt is a compliance car, plain and simple, and the way GM sees things the slower the move away from ICE's the better. If they really believed in electric cars and sustainable transportation they'd put their top talent on it and they'd be offering appealing electric cars throughout their lineup. The Bolt is ugly because they and their dealers just don't want to cannabalize their ICE sales.
Any ICE manufacturer has the double millstone of the dealer network and their existing product range.
It's great to see Nissan and GM working on BEVs in spite of this.
It's great to see Nissan and GM working on BEVs in spite of this.
What I see when I look at that picture of what's under the hood of the Bolt is full employment for the dealer's service department.
vjason
Member
Which is where things get interesting for major ICE manufacturers.
They have dealers who have invested millions to build modern dealerships, with massive modern service departments. My local Toyota dealer has around 6 service advisers alone working Saturdays! Six people who do nothing but check you in, go over results, and guide you to the cashier (separate person!) for payment. There are at least 20-30 techs there as well.
I'll be interested to see what the maintenance schedule is for the Bolt; I'll bet is no different than an ICE. Probably the same number of visits, but less work (although probably similar costs). Not saying people are forced to bring it in for those visits, but most don't work on their own cars.
They have dealers who have invested millions to build modern dealerships, with massive modern service departments. My local Toyota dealer has around 6 service advisers alone working Saturdays! Six people who do nothing but check you in, go over results, and guide you to the cashier (separate person!) for payment. There are at least 20-30 techs there as well.
I'll be interested to see what the maintenance schedule is for the Bolt; I'll bet is no different than an ICE. Probably the same number of visits, but less work (although probably similar costs). Not saying people are forced to bring it in for those visits, but most don't work on their own cars.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
If GM wants to get serious they should product this Buick as an EV and compete with the Model S.
ummgood
Member
This cracks me up!!!! Thanks for the laugh!
I have always thought that GM cars were bland. The only one that is the exception is the vette and it just recently has the interior to match the exterior. Ford during the market crash was making some decent looking cars (mainly borrowing from its Europe designs that are designed to compete better with the European manufacturers) but as of late has been sliding back into bland lately. Nissan's new Maxima is pretty bold now and I don't mind the 370Z but I need back seats for my kids. If they made an electric car based on the Maxima I would be very interested.
Honestly this is my biggest gripe of most EV's. They aren't appealing to me at all because they aren't sporty and they aren't sexy. Up until Tesla they have been all utilitarian and that is why I was willing to wait in line for the Model 3. Finally something in my price range AND sexy to boot! Plus I could use it because it has decent range.
I am pretty frugal so I drive a '05 Tacoma right now but I could afford a BMW 3 series or Audi A5 but just couldn't justify it. Now that the Tesla is coming out I am willing to spend some money on a car. Plus I have a daughter that will be driving age by the time I get my Tesla so we need another car. Perfect timing for me!
Solarguy
Member
I think Barra's biggest worry is where to buy enough batteries to build any meaningful number of Bolt's. 200 mile range means big battery packs. The factories to produce them don't exist today and don't appear to be in the pipeline like the Giga factory.
"So other than not having a high power charging network and not being able to buy significant quantities on batteries we're OK"
"So other than not having a high power charging network and not being able to buy significant quantities on batteries we're OK"
I'm not sure what is "meaningful" to you but GM has already said they can obtain at least 50,000 200-mile Bolt EV packs per year from the LG battery factory in South Korea. That's more cars than Tesla has been building per year up until now.
The same basic equipment from the same "usual suspects" auto parts suppliers is in the Model S and will be in the Model 3 -- they just have a longer and wider hood area in which to hide it out of sight near the bottom and under the plastic covers.
What do you think the Bolt EV has under its hood that the Model 3 won't have?
It won't be any more than the Volt which basically just suggests periodic inspections for the first 100,000 miles plus an oil change every 2 years. My 5.5 year old Volt is at 125,000 miles with about 80,000 of those being from battery charging and it's only had 2 dealer oil changes and is still using the original engine air filter. Total out of pocket expense of the oil changes was about $80. I did the inspections myself or got them free when getting a couple software updates.
Meanwhile, the reality is that many Tesla owners are paying Tesla hundreds of $$ per year for regular maintenance inspections.
I don't know about aesthetic lust, but the Volt has had the 2nd highest Consumer Reports customer satisfaction ("would buy it again") rating of any plugin for the past 4-5 years. It scores somewhere around 85 now, as I recall, which is high for any category of car.
It really depends on your idea of bland. CTS-V, ATS-V, Camaro, etc, you can spot a GM at a distance.
The Corvette is not an exception. It doesn't even have competitors. Chevy builds them for Chevy folk. Euro guys need not apply. It's not priced high enough, the badges aren't large enough, it lacks a "real" grill, it's too fast, handles too well, sounds too good, and gets too good of fuel economy, Sadly, they are sold with automatics available in most models, which blows. Yes, it's perhaps the world's finest automatic today, but still.
My ZR1 is "bland" smooth styling. It doesn't "claim" to exceed 200mph, it actually does. It's doesn't claim to run 10.9, it actually runs quicker. It has real brakes (big ass carbon ceramic Brembos), powerful electronic warfare tricks for wussies, and handles like a 2000lb car.
Oh, and the Nissan GT-R "Godzilla" is indeed a "Tesla Killer", regardless if you like the look or not.
PS - Elon said the other night the Model S is the "fastest four door". Exactly what were it's Nurburgring times, and top speed? I know my CTS-V 4-door had a stupid 175mph speed limiter. Others ran the ring at 7:xx in the 2009 CTS-V. Not sure any Tesla can match that or the $60k price tag.
beeeerock
Active Member
Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with the 'at least trying' comment. A company with the experience and deep pockets that GM appears to have should have been able to build something that might have been able to compete with Tesla. They didn't come close. Other than range, it's about as pretty as a Leaf or i3 and should really compete in the fugly market. Apologies to owners of both... ;-)
If they were trying, they would have started at the tires and designed a new platform from there... instead of attempting to impose an ICE design. New drivetrain options - they had a clean slate, like Tesla. They chose not to take advantage of that freedom and instead simply shoe-horned an electric drivetrain into an ICE.
I think they wanted to look like they're trying, so when the tide really turns, they can claim experience and vision. And in the meantime, it serves as another compliance car. 50,000 units annually from a company that big isn't really production... and with no battery production ramp up, they clearly show no motivation to accelerate production. No interest in a charging network... completes the fail.
My feeling as well. If you want to lambast then lambast Toyota and Ford and Fiat/Chrysler and VW and Peugot and Mitsu and Honda and Hyundai
vjason
Member
Interesting, thanks for sharing. Toyota (Prius Hybrid owner) recommends maintenance every 5K, but most of those trips are to check floor mats and rotate the tires. Every 10K the oil/filter is changed, every 30K air/cabin filters, but that is pretty much it below 100k.
It will be interesting to see what Tesla charges for 3 maintenance. Not saying I'll rely on them for it, but interested to see nonetheless.
It will be interesting to see what Tesla charges for 3 maintenance. Not saying I'll rely on them for it, but interested to see nonetheless.
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